Kepler thinks his legs are branches...causing falls

[clarkrw3]

This last picture doesn't look like it I was going off those first pictures...I would say looking at this fired picture on your hand he is within normal limits for size and development. Those first pictures really did make him look small, even his rostral looked small in those pictures.

Thx about the photo btw


The dubia's do pretty well in the garage everywhere but in AZ lol with our garage getting up to 125 etc it's just too hot. They are called "dubia beetles" in my house it's made all the difference

It too could just be the picture but that curve in his wrist in compared to the picture next to it of my cham is a little concerning think MBD. Which as already posted can be linked back to the Vit A issue BTW does he have any tongue issues?

 

[sandrachameleon]

I really want to feed him a wider variety of things. I've been trying Superworms on and off for the past 2 months and he wants nothing to do with them. My girlfriend loathes roaches so I've been trying to convince her to let me keep a colony. What other types of feeders do you recommend? And as far as the dubias are concerned - will they survive in a high heat environment such as my garage during the summer? Are they more/less hardy than crickets?

Here is a link to a list of some of the most commonly used feeders:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

Roaches are very hardy - more so than crickets by far. But they do have limits to the temperatures they thrive in. How hot does your garage get?

Dubia are unlikely to infest your house - they dont even look the same as what most people think of as roaches. You could go to extreme lengths and keep the colony container inside of another container. This is what I did for YEARS to reassure MYSELF that roaches were safe, not going to escape etc. And cup feed, or watch to ensure every roach offered is eaten quickly (or removed), or remove the heads off of the roaches you feed off (they will live long enough to be eaten, but not long enough to breed should they escape somehow).

Silkworms are a very good option. And most everyone finds them "cute" soft catepillars, very good choice if there is a dislike of "bugs" in the family

Here is a link to a list of some online insect vendors:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/171-where-buy-feeders-online.html

 

[mons00n]

well the vet said it certainly did not look like MBD. to him he looked perfectly healthy. he tried to get kepler to do it by making him climb around stuff, but unfortunately he didn't do it until the car ride home =(

and the quote of the day belongs to Dr. Taylor

is he retarded?....possibly

 

[clarkrw3]

well the vet said it certainly did not look like MBD. to him he looked perfectly healthy. he tried to get kepler to do it by making him climb around stuff, but unfortunately he didn't do it until the car ride home =(

and the quote of the day belongs to Dr. Taylor

I would say that most (almost all) of the vets out there are not up on the Vit A thing. After I took my cham to the vet (with a bunch of cham experience) about his tongue issue he told me not to give him vit A because of toxicity but it is the only thing that has helped him. Just saying.

It might not be a bad idea to switch supplementation to Repashy Calc plus and then supplement with Vit once to twice a month on one feeder. What that would do is up the D3 and Vit A from what you are doing currently but keep it in the safe range, which can only help him.

 

[mons00n]

I would say that most (almost all) of the vets out there are not up on the Vit A thing. After I took my cham to the vet (with a bunch of cham experience) about his tongue issue he told me not to give him vit A because of toxicity but it is the only thing that has helped him. Just saying.

It might not be a bad idea to switch supplementation to Repashy Calc plus and then supplement with Vit once to twice a month on one feeder. What that would do is up the D3 and Vit A from what you are doing currently but keep it in the safe range, which can only help him.

do you have any links to a good place to purchase repashy calc plus? my googles aren't turning up anything useful.

 

[Shimerm]

do you have any links to a good place to purchase repashy calc plus? my googles aren't turning up anything useful.

The Kammers are selling it

http://www.chameleonsonly.com/catalog/SUPPLEMENTS_GUTLOAD-22-1.html

 

[clarkrw3]

Here is where I bought from but you could also call Chad at Tiki since they are using it now they might have some for sale. If you are getting some from Repashy in the posted links you might just want to get the Vit A supplement and some bug burger too.

Note: I do not work for them just trying to help out.

http://www.store.repashy.com/calcium-plus-bag.html
http://www.store.repashy.com/vitamin-a-plus.html
http://www.store.repashy.com/bug-burger-en.html

 

[mons00n]

It too could just be the picture but that curve in his wrist in compared to the picture next to it of my cham is a little concerning think MBD. Which as already posted can be linked back to the Vit A issue BTW does he have any tongue issues?

I think it's just the picture and how he's holding on. The vet pretty much felt every bone in his body and said everything was normal. No tongue issues that I've noticed, the occasional miss but he's actually pretty good!

The Kammers are selling it

http://www.chameleonsonly.com/catalog/SUPPLEMENTS_GUTLOAD-22-1.html

thanks!

 

[mons00n]

So repashy calcium plus would replace my standard calcium dusting for every meal?

If so do I keep the same twice a month schedule for D3/herpavite/mineral-all-o? Or would the repashy eliminate the need for any of those?

 

[Ace]

So repashy calcium plus would replace my standard calcium dusting for every meal?

If so do I keep the same twice a month schedule for D3/herpavite/mineral-all-o? Or would the repashy eliminate the need for any of those?

it would eliminate all of them, just light dustly on the feeders, dony make them look like ghosts or you could oversupplement


as far as the repashy calcium plus, ive been using it for a few weeks now and have good results on it so far.

my chams are fine and well

 

[heartben]

i dont recall reading it - but do you ever take him outside? if not, you should try letting him get as much sun as possible (with shade provided of course)..i know that getting natural sun has helped a lot of captive chams out so its worth a shot and its free. hope all works out, i dont have much to offer but i dont recall seeing if you took him out or not (at least not on this thread).

 

[kinyonga]

clarkrw3 said..."I would say that most (almost all) of the vets out there are not up on the Vit A thing. After I took my cham to the vet (with a bunch of cham experience) about his tongue issue he told me not to give him vit A because of toxicity but it is the only thing that has helped him"...please be aware that sometimes vitamin A may seem to be what solves the problem but its not necessarily that the chameleon lacks vitamin A but that it has too much D3 from supplements to balance the vitamin A...so when you added the vitamin A it brought things back into balance. Maybe in cases like this we need to look at the amounts of calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A the chameleon is getting in its diet...insect gutload included.

Regarding nutrients in insects....notice silk worms need no additional vitamin A...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/zoo.10082/abstract

Interesting...scan down to page 994...
http://journals.cambridge.org/downl...78a.pdf&code=d7f494cc956da755417e3dfa463249ff

"Insects use a variety of retinoids for vision, which they synthesize from carotenoids in their food."..."most wild-caught insects contain a variety of carotenoids (astaxanthin, α-carotene, β-carotene, lutein, lycopene, zeaxanthin, and others), which they accumulate from their food. Most species of vertebrates can convert some of these carotenoids to retinol, so insects containing high levels of carotenoids may be a significant source of vitamin A for insectivorous vertebrates."...
http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm

 

[clarkrw3]

Thanks kinyonga that is some great information for sure!!


regarding your question Calcium Plus is an all in one. However, in your case I would still supplement with a little vit a once a week. Also get that cham outside if at all possible for as long as possible it often does wonders for them.

 

[mons00n]

it would eliminate all of them, just light dustly on the feeders, dony make them look like ghosts or you could oversupplement

I'll pick some up ASAP, still waiting to hear back from Tiki. What are the signs of over supplementation? You guys are scaring me =p

i dont recall reading it - but do you ever take him outside? if not, you should try letting him get as much sun as possible (with shade provided of course)..i know that getting natural sun has helped a lot of captive chams out so its worth a shot and its free. hope all works out, i dont have much to offer but i dont recall seeing if you took him out or not (at least not on this thread).

Also get that cham outside if at all possible for as long as possible it often does wonders for them.

I try to get him outside as much as possible, but with the temperatures trending 110F every day it's difficult. I plan on having outside much more during the fall when things cool down a bit - but as of now it's too hot to keep him outside more than ~10 minutes at a time.

 

[mons00n]

UPDATE:

I changed to only using Repashy Calcium Plus on 9/8/11. I got my hands on some Repashy Vitamin A Plus on 9/15/11 and have been using it on one feeder per week.

So he's been on Rep Calc+ for ~4 weeks, and has had direct vitamin A supplement twice (three times tomorrow), and we have seen little to no improvement. I did notice however that his back legs always grab his front, never the other way around. His grip is getting so tight that the scales are actually starting to come off of his skin (from his nails) and there appears to be some scarring taking place. Everything else seems to be normal; he's growing, shedding, pooping, eating, drinking, sleeping, etc etc.

I could really use some advice on what course of action to take next. It appears that the vet won't be able to help (haven't heard back from him in regards to the issue). I just worry he's going to injure himself by falling more frequently as he ages. I plan on upgrading his cage to a larger size come the next reptile show - but that inherently comes with the risk of higher falls.

 

[kinyonga]

Leg grabbing is usually due to a calcium imbalance. How does giving it vitamin A fix the lack of calcium and the ratio of calcium to D3 to vitamin A?
IMHO you need a vet to run some tests to determine if its lacking calcium...if it is you need to correct it and then follow a proper supplementation schedule with a balance of calcium to phosphorus to D3 to vitamin A.

 

[mons00n]

Leg grabbing is usually due to a calcium imbalance. How does giving it vitamin A fix the lack of calcium and the ratio of calcium to D3 to vitamin A?
IMHO you need a vet to run some tests to determine if its lacking calcium...if it is you need to correct it and then follow a proper supplementation schedule with a balance of calcium to phosphorus to D3 to vitamin A.

My initial set of supplements consisted of:
Repti-Cal Calcium w/o D3 @ every feeding
Repti-Cal Calcium w/ D3 twice a month
Repti-Cal multivitamin twice a month
Mineral-All-O (w/o D3) twice a month

Many on here said that panther's could possibly have issues converting beta-carotene (in the multivitamin) to vitamin A, so they suggested I switch to Repashy Calcium Plus (contains small amounts of vitamin A), and give him a single feeder dusted with vitamin A once per week. I talked to Chad & Darcie over at Tiki and they said that they switched over to Repashy Calc + for the entirety of their supplementation so I don't think it's a calcium imbalance if that's all I'm giving him.

The vet said he looked perfectly fine and had no signs of MBD. Unfortunately Kepler decided not to grab himself while at the Vet so he couldn't witness it first hand.

It seems as thought it's been ocurring more frequently as of late. Heard a thump and found this today:

Do you really think that it could still be some sort of calcium imbalance? And if so would it be how I'm feeding him or a possible problem with his digestive system?

 

[sandrachameleon]

I changed to only using Repashy Calcium Plus on 9/8/11. I got my hands on some Repashy Vitamin A Plus on 9/15/11 and have been using it on one feeder per week.

I'm sorry this hasnt helped so far. I'd say its safe to keep it up for another couple of weeks. But also increase the plain calicum intake. Make sure there is plenty of water available, especially since you dont measure humidity. You might add some fresh vegetables (items high in calcium) to your gutload instead of only using cricket crack. This will help with hydration as well as potentially providing more nutrients. Butterworms would also be a good addition.
gutloading info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
When you took him to the vet, did they not do some blood tests?

 

[mons00n]

I'm sorry this hasnt helped so far. I'd say its safe to keep it up for another couple of weeks. But also increase the plain calicum intake. Make sure there is plenty of water available, especially since you dont measure humidity. You might add some fresh vegetables (items high in calcium) to your gutload instead of only using cricket crack. This will help with hydration as well as potentially providing more nutrients. Butterworms would also be a good addition.
gutloading info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
When you took him to the vet, did they not do some blood tests?

The vet didn't think it was necessary - he didn't see anything wrong =/ He pretty much said he could just be retarded.

Also how would I increase the plain calcium intake if I'm only using one supplement? Just dust heavier?

I give the crickets some carrot shavings and oranges every once in a while, I guess I could increase the frequency.

 

[kinyonga]

In addition to giving him the Repashy, if he has a calcium issue, you need to give him more calcium to help build the bones back up. Liquid calcium is said to be absorbed more easily...you could use calcium sandoz or calcium gluconate. I'm not a vet...I'm just going by experience...but leg grabbing has never been reported to be a sign of retardation in chameleons that I know of...its been seen as a sign of a calcium imbalance.