Just wanted to say Thanks, and had a question.

[cyberlocc]

Hello guys and gals, I tend to go on and on, so I spoilered this into sections for you to read or not .

About Me (feel free to skip)

Spoiler: About Me

I just wanted to make this post and say thanks for all the great information on this forum. I was considering get some chams a few years ago. Always wanted them, but at the time I had a very small little one (she is about to be 4 now). Myself and my wife had too much going on, so I figured I should hold off for a bit.

Well I finally decided to purchase a chameleon , actually a little sooner than OG planned (will explain below).

I have a large room in our house my "Man Cave" however it was/is in need of serious renovation and I planned it for this summer. I was going to hold off till it is done for getting my first and from there who knows . The room is huge so I can fit quite a few. The room has a large room area, 16x19ft, with a large window (which I will likely cover). Also a small room (use to be a laundry room needs work which I have already started). that is about 5 feet by 6 feet, with the hallway into the house on the side of it taking the rest of the space.

Anyway my plan, is to put my cham(s) in the big room of course, and maybe turn the small room into an insect room as I plan to breed the feeders (the local pet stores dont carry much).

So my idea is to make a pretty large cage setup, no offense to reptibreezes but they appear to me to be somewhat cheapish side, and fairly pricey for what they actually are. Anyway that will come into more play in the question later.

Depending on how this goes and how my family adapts to this chameleon and its owner ship (I am sure pretty well). I am considering breeding, as I have the room, the time, and am beginning to gather the knowledge however that will be for a later date to decide.

So a little more about me, My house is actually a double wide. The reason being is I run a family owned trailer park and store. Not my dream job nor what I spent years in college to do lol. However I looked at it as a good opportunity, as I am my own boss. The other great aspect is the mobile home is at the front, we then have a office/store about a 100 feet away. The office/store is semi slow, we do sell propane and rv supplies but that aspect is fairly slow. So most of my day is spent working outside putting around, or sitting inside at a desk that over looks the store.

This has been great! as I have been able to work and provide for my family, and watch my daughter grow up without missing a beat . However it can be fairly boring and a side project would be awesome. That is why I am considering the breeding aspect, it gives me something to do with my time. It would be a fun experience, and I figure I could make a little money from it even if not much.

The best part is, I work 9.5 hour days, with slow work. When someone comes I have to help them. some days thats 20 people throughout some days its 5 some days none. We make most of the money from rented spaces, and a small portion from propane the store and parts not much. Anyway I could spend that free time, being constructive and breeding instead of watching Netflix and other menial tasks I do to pass the day , I can still see the store from the man cave and have a beeper for the door. So I could be in there most of the day with having to leave for a few mins semi often. I work 6 days a week so I am here 6 days a week lol (well 7 mostly, trips to the store and occasional family outing aside.)

Anyway sorry for rambling, I tend to do that.

Thank You! I will *try* to keep this part ramble free .

Spoiler: Thank you

I wanted to extend my gratitude to this forum for the tons of info it contains. As I have stated, I have quite a bit of free time. For the past week and a half, I have read through tons and tons of Chameleon information. Watched you tube Videos ect, just studied like crazy. I found in my studying, this forum pops up with alot of good info. I have read some very good threads on here. Some even a few times to remember the flood of info I have been consuming .

So I wanted to give thanks to all of you for this wealth of information you have gather and spread in one place. When I say I have been studying and reading this site and a few others for about 5 to 8 hours a day on and off, for the last 10 days that is not an exaggeration (IK sad right , the 4 year old + Running a business kills a social life lol.).

Onwards we go.

I got a Chameleon .

Spoiler: My first cham will be here soon :)

So I have my first cham coming on Wednesday , I am fairly ready. I say fairly as if you read the about me the room isnt finished. I want soo much for my chams as well. alot of which tons of people live without so I will at first as well. Things like 2 mistkings, (one for 3 sprays and 1 for humidity levels maintaining) A proportional and an on off Thermostat. (I have an On/Off coming for now).

I know this is cue people saying I do not need that stuff, and I know I likely dont. However when I get hobbys I go big or go home. My other hobby is PCs, of which I have 10s of thousands into (which is good for a year or 2 then is replaced by a new multi thousand dollar PC's). This hobby pales in price .

To be clear I am not rich (not even close), just dedicated. I do not go to bars, or things like that and instead put my money into things I want in life. And am pretty cheap when I can be and not when I cant lol.

Anyway my hand was kind of forced on the chameleon. I saw a deal I couldn't pass up, as I sure some of you know LLL recently had a great deal on panthers. So I picked one up he (Or she) will be here in a few days. (see cheap when I can be hope that doesn't bite me later ).

So I built a cage (back to reptibreeze looks cheap and not very good with draining ect.) Its not the nicest cage by far, but its temporary and will be replaced in a few months. For right now the chameleon will live in my bedroom after some serious convincing of my wife lol.

I have been over 100s of DIY guides and debates and threw something quick together. It doesn't look the best, but it is functional. Kind of saddened to post a Pic as I cut some corners in the looks dept, and it pales to what I have seen on here. But it was a rough draft. Its made from things I already had, Literally the only thing I had to buy was the Polycrylic and the Silicon .

Here is a Pic of it semi setup, obviously this is no where near good enough, but its something for now and I can progress later. All the branches have been bleached and rinsed twice. Then they were baked for 2 hours. The rocks for the potter plant have been boiled for 2 hours. The plant was from LLL, I cleaned the leaves anyway just in case, I made the vine as the ones local seemed to big for a small cham, (I made it with some steel wire, cotton yarn (unbleached and dyed with non toxic food coloring) then sealed with GE D/W. The inside corners, were also seamed with GE D/W (as I read that is the best). The cage and silicon has had 6 days dry time so far. When the cham gets here it will have been 8 or so days.

Also almost forget the white on the side, that is a blackout drape. That has been cut to size and stapled to the back frame. So I can cover that side and the front of the cage to prevent light going into the cage at night/mornings. Oh and quarter inch acrylic back and bottom, Should I vinyl that to prevent reflection? I had thought about it and have tons of vinyl wrap.

Anyway here it is dont be too harsh . (I built the frame as quick as possible, so the measurements weren't great and the screw holes were not predrilled. I wanted to get the miniwax on fast so it would have longer dry time.)

The Question

Spoiler: My question(s), really more an idea for which I need input.

I wanted you opinion on the new cage I am going to begin building later on. Mainly revolves around lighting.

So my idea is to conserve "some" power and I want to have a large misting affect.

So my idea/thought was this. the new cage will be a double wide hehe. I want to build a cage that is actually 2 cages in one large one. The dimensions will be internally for each cage, 36ish inches wide, 24ish inches deep 50 inches tall (maybe slightly more, I have to put buckets below and keep it under 7 feet total height with the lights.

So to save power and streamline usable space. My pan is to have a 1/2 or so divider between the 2 cages. Then a 4ft T5HO Arcadia 12% bulb (or a 6 depending what screen I use for the top) stretched across both cages. I have gather from extensive reading this should be okay, if you dont think so let me know please.

The part I am questioning about more so then the stretching (though I am curious your thoughts on that), is my plan is to have the basking bulbs on either side.

So the leds/uvb in the center strecthing most of the range. Then the basking bulbs on either side one for each cage, this would put the basking buls on the side of the enclosure, but hopefully would provide Basking No UV/ Basking and UV/ UV no Basking, I think. Would that work out okay?

Part of the reason I want to do it that way is for the mistking. I want to run the mistking with 2 or 3 nozzles per cage, and have them with the rainfall setup. With this idea, when it goes off rain will fall throughout the entire enclosure except for a few inches (Like 5 or 6) in the front. so there will be a huge area of rain fall, then maybe a misting nozzle inside as well to get the other places.

I think this will benefit the chams and myself. For me it looks better than a small spot of rain fall in a corner lol. For the chams the rain will fall on them likely unless there in a few places that can escape it. I understand thats a lot of mist however I will have a drainage system in place to get rid of the excess water. I think it may help seem more real to them as well, as lets face it when rain falls in Madagascar its not in a 5 inch circle lol.

Side question, the LED is good for the power and brightness, but pricey and they dont produce heat. Would I be better to use a 3 ballast 48 inch with 2 grow lights (Will produce heat, I have seen a few threads on here saying use a enough and you wont need a basking bulb lol). Just to give some more heat to the cage. I will be doing my best to keep the room at a constant temp for the chameleons of around 70-75 in the summer and never under 65 in the winter.

Here is a rough draft I am doing in Sketch up to give you an idea.

If you read all of that, Kudos sorry I tend to go on lol. I am not big on the witty 1 liners ect. Thanks very much if you read it all, if you didn't go back and read it ALL, JK .

EDIT: my Photobucket isnt working right so I uploaded the pics as well.

 

[Carlton]

A few thoughts (though I might not have really answered your original question).

Because indoor chams have to be "attracted" to get within a particular distance to our UV lighting to get its benefit, it makes sense to cluster both types of lighting to do it. They are attracted to warmth (especially in the mornings when they need to warm up), height, and bright light. As they warm up and roam the warmer region of their habitat, they soak up that UV at the same time. If your heat and UV lighting is close together it works for both needs. I don't think you need to make it complicated by creating zones of UV only, heat only, etc. Maybe I was not understanding your idea? I haven't used LED lighting so can't field that question. Regular exterior halogen porch lights and tube florescents have always done what I wanted.

Just keeping the room so warm that the cham doesn't need to bask seems like it would take more energy to do. Chams need a gradient of temps to regulate their body temp...not a uniform temperature everywhere. At different times of day they will seek out cooler more humid areas, warmer drier areas, as they sense the need. They evolved in a vertically-oriented world of trees and bushes where temps were stratified, not static. And, you will need to make sure the room cools down every night.

As for misting, I've always positioned my nozzles so they cover more of the cage, not so focused that it creates a small rainy spot in a corner. I guess it depends on the spray pattern of your particular nozzles.

 

[cyberlocc]

A few thoughts (though I might not have really answered your original question).

Because indoor chams have to be "attracted" to get within a particular distance to our UV lighting to get its benefit, it makes sense to cluster both types of lighting to do it. They are attracted to warmth (especially in the mornings when they need to warm up), height, and bright light. As they warm up and roam the warmer region of their habitat, they soak up that UV at the same time. If your heat and UV lighting is close together it works for both needs. I don't think you need to make it complicated by creating zones of UV only, heat only, etc. Maybe I was not understanding your idea? I haven't used LED lighting so can't field that question. Regular exterior halogen porch lights and tube florescents have always done what I wanted.

Just keeping the room so warm that the cham doesn't need to bask seems like it would take more energy to do. Chams need a gradient of temps to regulate their body temp...not a uniform temperature everywhere. At different times of day they will seek out cooler more humid areas, warmer drier areas, as they sense the need. They evolved in a vertically-oriented world of trees and bushes where temps were stratified, not static. And, you will need to make sure the room cools down every night.

As for misting, I've always positioned my nozzles so they cover more of the cage, not so focused that it creates a small rainy spot in a corner. I guess it depends on the spray pattern of your particular nozzles.

Hey thanks for the reply .

Okay so for the lighting what I mean is this, The center gives uv, that stretches most of the cage. then the basking light does the same, and in the majority they cross and the cham gets both. However in some places, he can get no basking but get UV and others he can bask and not get UV.

From what I have read a lot around here and other places, this is exactly why not to use combo fixtures. They need to be able to get heat without UV and vice versa, as they dont need both all the time. if you had lets say the combo light, when they get heat they always get d3, and that can lead to a UV overdose at least that is what I keep hearing. Are you saying that isn't correct? More so the idea of the lighting is just to simply my lighting setup and allow more room for water, so if they beams cross its fine right? I have included a rough photoshop to give you an idea of what I mean, red is Basking only, Blue UV only and orange both. of course the bulbs are less directional than that I am sure and there will be more orange in reality it was just a rough skecth.

As to the misting, I understand for the misting and that is what I want as well. However with a mistking and the rionfall setup (the mister is outside the cage) and sprays the screen and drops in the 5-6 inch circle the tubes run in. At least thats what I have seen, and they usually have the rain fall on 1 side on 1 corner do to lighting placement, my idea will have the entire top of the cage (minus the small stip for lights) raining, and then a supplemental mist for that area. As from what I have read again could very well be wrong panthers prefer the rain over the mist.

Here is a video to show you what I mean by the corner of the cage.

 

[Carlton]

Well, there are different types of UV radiation and different bulbs produce varying amounts of each. I very much doubt they can get too much UVB or metabolize too much vitamin D3 under the correct lighting (such as the Arcadias and Reptisuns in use for 12 hours daily) and correct supplementation. Some UV lights produce higher levels of UVA or UVC that can cause problems with burns and eye irritation. I've never heard that they should have access to a basking area that does not expose them to UV and don't know if the cham could detect the difference. But, I'm not a lighting expert by any means. Todd at Light your Reptiles is the expert and can probably explain this a lot better.

I don't know if every panther prefers rain over mist (do you mean that fine fog that ultrasonics produce?) or not. Guess my setups are a lot simpler than what you are planning. Maybe you are overthinking it a bit while having fun designing?

 

[cyberlocc]

Well, there are different types of UV radiation and different bulbs produce varying amounts of each. I very much doubt they can get too much UVB or metabolize too much vitamin D3 under the correct lighting (such as the Arcadias and Reptisuns in use for 12 hours daily) and correct supplementation. Some UV lights produce higher levels of UVA or UVC that can cause problems with burns and eye irritation. I've never heard that they should have access to a basking area that does not expose them to UV and don't know if the cham could detect the difference. But, I'm not a lighting expert by any means. Todd at Light your Reptiles is the expert and can probably explain this a lot better.

I don't know if every panther prefers rain over mist (do you mean that fine fog that ultrasonics produce?) or not. Guess my setups are a lot simpler than what you are planning. Maybe you are overthinking it a bit while having fun designing?

I could very well be overthinking it lol. However my plan was the mist dome, so the sprayer is outisde and simulates actual rainfall across the entire cage. So drops of water instead of a mist, from the videos I have seen chams dont like being outright sprayed with mist, but they will sit and get soaked in the rainfall. That may not apply to all chams and I have only seen a few vids displaying that so I do not really know .

So with your setup do you have rain falling or just a mist? Also would it be okay for the 12% arcadia to be used across both cages like I depicted? that is what todd recommends using but IDK if it will work stretched.

 

[TheVeiledProphet]

The kids have a phrase they use that is this: "TMI", and this seemingly meaningless, yet mysteriously strange combination of alphabetical symbols means TO MUCH INFORMATION. There is often wisdom in youth,but if the unsettling anarchy in f the young kind seems not a place for good judgement from which to springeth forth, philosophers and great thinkers have long professed Ideas professing sentiments that " brevity is the something or other I can't recall.

 

[Carlton]

I could very well be overthinking it lol. However my plan was the mist dome, so the sprayer is outisde and simulates actual rainfall across the entire cage. So drops of water instead of a mist, from the videos I have seen chams dont like being outright sprayed with mist, but they will sit and get soaked in the rainfall. That may not apply to all chams and I have only seen a few vids displaying that so I do not really know .

So with your setup do you have rain falling or just a mist? Also would it be okay for the 12% arcadia to be used across both cages like I depicted? that is what todd recommends using but IDK if it will work stretched.

I use a combination of rain (produced a couple of times a day by a timer-controlled misting system) and cycles of fog produced by an ultrasonic humidifier in between, just to help level out the humidity drops when the house is really dry due to winter heating. Its just what has worked for me. I keep more montane species, so the fogger helps maintain a more moderate cage humidity level without needing to add more misting cycles that produce a lot more runoff.

 

[Daypaul]

Some one thinks there special don't they @ the veiled prophet

 

[cyberlocc]

I use a combination of rain (produced a couple of times a day by a timer-controlled misting system) and cycles of fog produced by an ultrasonic humidifier in between, just to help level out the humidity drops when the house is really dry due to winter heating. Its just what has worked for me. I keep more montane species, so the fogger helps maintain a more moderate cage humidity level without needing to add more misting cycles that produce a lot more runoff.

Ya that was the idea I had. Rain at set times and then a fogger or something set with a herpstat to keep humidity at 40-50%. However wont need to worry about that until winter, as we have swamp coolers for cooling (Arizona).

I have another question ot from OP, if you dont mind. I just got my new girl or boy (not sure the sex, I have a thread asking for opinions ) anyway it hasnt eaten yet? Is that normal how long till I worry? Also he keeps shutting his eyes? only for a few seconds like 20 then opens them again. I sprayed him a few times just worried now.

I do not know how old he is, LLL said he would be over 2 months and that is all I could get from them. I have the highest most basking spot at 80, and he is chilling on a slightly lower branch though he was up there earlier.

EDIT: just got him today, about 5 hours ago btw.

 

[Carlton]

I wouldn't worry unless he hasn't eaten for a week. A healthy cham can go several days without eating. Just get him drinking and feeling secure. Don't bother him too much.

 

[cyberlocc]

I wouldn't worry unless he hasn't eaten for a week. A healthy cham can go several days without eating. Just get him drinking and feeling secure. Don't bother him too much.

So I was just trying to get a pic for you for the other thread. He snapped a cricket that I didn't even see the cricket, I looked down to open camera and looked up he had a cricket in his mouth. I have some in a cup dusted and a few free ranging, he snapped the free range one off a branch I guess. So that is great .