Jean-Luc's vet visit!

[mirrinias]

Hi guys,

I don't really have any major issues to go over with you all, but I did want to talk about my vet visit with Jean-Luc the other day and run something by you. I suspected he had a mild/early case of a respiratory infection because he was tilting his head up, very slightly increased mucous in his mouth (not yet at the frothy stage I have seen in some poor pet store chameleons) and sometimes keeping his mouth slightly open. He had the same symptoms around this time last year.

Anyway, due to cost constraints, I chose to go ahead with injectable antibiotics (which is already going SO SO much better than giving oral meds). My issues is this: the doctor recommended AGAINST dusting feeders with calcium and vitamins because they are not absorbed well by reptiles in this form. He instead recommended using T-Rex calcium plus food for crickets to gutload my roaches, and that using a gutload with the correct calcium ratios along with the proper uvb should continue to prevent MBD. He even suggested that dusting can be harmful (I should have asked for more details regarding how it could be harmful). Just so you guys know, my chameleon's joints are looking good and he does not have MBD, the doctor intended this as a general husbandry pointer.

Do you guys have opinions? I have never read of anything other than giving proper gutload and also dusting feeders with calcium. I bought the T-Rex gutload because it was relatively cheap and I thought I might give it a shot, but I'm wary of commercial products.

Edit: Also, he is 300g! From what I am reading on previous threads, this is quite large.

 

[sharp229]

I notice you are in the Seattle area, did you happen to go to the well-known exotic vet in Bothell? I have had some issues with advice there, although they seem OK in general.

It looks like you have had him for a while, so as long as he is not showing any signs of MBD or calcium deficiency I would stick with what works. I have seen stuff online about dusting not being very effective for reptiles, but I think that is why most people suggest BOTH gutloading and dusting.

If he has an RI, I would be more worried about figuring out what might have caused that problem rather than trying to fix a problem that doesn't currently exist. Could you fill out the help form?

Thanks!

 

[mirrinias]

Thanks for the input. I went to the vet office in Bothell last year, and I will not go there again. It was a different office this time.

As for the RI, I am grateful for your concern, but he has already been to a vet, it is being treated, and I'm fairly certain of what caused it, too, and it has been rectified. We moved three times this year and changed jobs three times, and somewhere in all that mess I lost my cage thermometer, it wasn't getting hot enough, and I wasn't keeping up well with making sure the drainage under his cage wasn't staying too wet. I used to be very very strict with his care and slacked off -- and, well, he and I are paying the price. But, I caught it early, and you can bet I won't slack off again. He's still a very lively lizard. Anyway, I'd prefer not to fill out the help sheet at this time and to focus on my question about dusting/gutloading.

 

[Devokid]

You should definitely be gut loading all of your bugs. I have found that dusting the bugs with calcium DOES help, but your vet may be correct in that they absorb calcium better through the diet of the bugs as that is how they would naturally get it.

I can't help myself about your yearly RI infections. I notice that you live in Seattle, are you in any way trying to raise his humidity levels? If you are, don't. The ambient humidity is already too high, so just a dripper for water is all he needs. They live in a variety of conditions, but some areas that they naturally inhabit have gone 3 years without any recordable rain fall. Too high of humidity is much more hazardous to these guys than too little.

 

[sharp229]

No worries, I didn't know if you had found the cause of the RI so that is the reason I asked.

I would be very interested to hear what people have to say about this as well. This article claims that vita-bugs are best, dusting is second, and gut-loading is third in efficiency:

http://snakebytes.tumblr.com/post/75814093225/vita-bug-wrap-up

Unfortunately the results are skewed and inconclusive because he fed the vita-bug group calci-worms and not the other two groups. He also didn't say what he gut-loaded or dusted with. This was discussed here:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/vita-bugs-anyone-tried-these-119787/

I am wondering if anyone has ever conducted a study with bugs that are only dusted vs bugs that are only gut-loaded. Specifically a study where the type of dusting and type of gut-loading are known, and both the dusting and gut-loading are using the best possible ingredients?

 

[mirrinias]

You should definitely be gut loading all of your bugs. I have found that dusting the bugs with calcium DOES help, but your vet may be correct in that they absorb calcium better through the diet of the bugs as that is how they would naturally get it.

I can't help myself about your yearly RI infections. I notice that you live in Seattle, are you in any way trying to raise his humidity levels? If you are, don't. The ambient humidity is already too high, so just a dripper for water is all he needs. They live in a variety of conditions, but some areas that they naturally inhabit have gone 3 years without any recordable rain fall. Too high of humidity is much more hazardous to these guys than too little.

I'm not attempting to raise humidity at all -- my room sometimes feels too humid for me too, and it's a very small, enclosed room with one window that I can't leave open during the day (theft is an issue in the city!) The (likely) high humidity in my room is also what led to my drainage situation remaining too wet, when it used to dry out pretty quickly on its own. I'll simply have to be much more diligent.

The vet mentioned that yearly infections in reptiles is not actually that uncommon, though it usually occurs in females and he suspects it may be related to this being the time of year they are breeding (or are anticipating breeding) more often, and stress and hormonal changes can leave them more vulnerable to infection.

I don't remember the reason why he got his first infection a year ago. I was probably watering way too much. Either way, he's still 300g of eating, drinking, climbing, hissing, and pooping, and the antiobiotic injections are easy to give. Eventually (probably next month) I will be doing bloodwork and a fecal to make sure there aren't any other underlying issues/causes that might be making him susceptible to infection.