quattlebaum12194
Member
will making the enclosure bio-active save a lot of time, and if i do not what will i pt on the bottom of the enclosure to ensure that there is no bacteria to harm my vieled chameleeon
Is it good to have substrate
- Thread starter quattlebaum12194
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nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
If you are not doing bio active. You put NOTHING.
Infact if you put nothing, you kinda want everything raised up on feets a few inches so feeders cant hide under things.
Infact if you put nothing, you kinda want everything raised up on feets a few inches so feeders cant hide under things.
quattlebaum12194
Member
but where would the water go
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
Uh the solution is the same. A drainage pan or tub. If you have bioactive and misting, you are going to have mud without a drainage system.
I use concrete mixing tubs under the screen cages.
quattlebaum12194
Member
my sister is moving into a different house and she wants me to have her vieled chameleon and she has an automated misting system
Madmango
Established Member
What does your sister have set up to catch the excess water?
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
bacteria doesn’t only live on the floor of the cage.it lives on/ in basically every surface, in the air, in water. And chameleons do in fact go to the bottom from time to time. Not usually to often though.
bacteria can cause things such as a respiratory infection, mouth rot, temporal gland infection, eye infections just to name a few.
along with bad bacteria there is also beneficial bacteria.
Andrew1283
Chameleon Enthusiast
Personally I think the bio active enclosures are gross. I get it, they work like a septic system and beneficial bacteria (along with actual bugs) eventually break down fecal matter so you don’t have to clean up daily. But how hard is it to get in a cage and clean up a poop? And who wants to have their chameleon living four feet above an OPEN SEPTIC SYSTEM? Why don’t you try that for yourself a few days and see how unpleasant and unnatural it is. Seriously! Some people lay paper towels on the bottom and you just change out the paper towels, give the floor a spot wipe with a reptile safe cleaning agent and boom you’re done. I set up my first (newbie) enclosure with ground up coconut husk substrate for a natural look and believed that was OK. I thought..this will help retain humidity and why can’t a healthy chameleon pass some inadvertently ingested finely ground soil just as they would in the wild? Additionally I loved the thought of having a chameleon litter box where I could scoop away the poop with the surrounding coconut husk and call it a day. But this isn’t the wild and yes that dirt may pass through their system but it may have also been in contact with some fecal matter which could make your cham sick. You can never watch them at all times so you don’t know what they do when you’re gone. Bare bottom with items raised a few inches from the surface is the winner. Spot clean the area where the poop was with a reptile safe disinfectant. If it’s a female make sure she has a sufficient lay bin so she doesn’t become egg bound. Trust the advice on this site but sometimes you will get conflicting ideas about what works best. Just use your best practical judgment and research a variety of reputable sources if necessary. Seek advice from your local exotic pet veterinarian too. Everyone has the best intentions for your pet.
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Rhea’s mum
Established Member
It's not a septic tank, its an eco system. Like the one you encounter everyday outside, just in a smaller more compact version that you control what goes in there. It's also a food chain.
Even if you put paper towels down or bare bottom, unless you are there immediately as soon as your cham is pooping then your cham could go down and walk through it, feeders go in it etc and then your cham eats the feeders. Chams like most other living beings have good flora in their intestine to help combat the bad. Just like you and I.
Bioactive or no substrate is a personal choice. As long as you set up the bioactive enclosure correctly and give it time to bed in and have the correct drainage then it won't cause your cham any problems.
Andrew1283
Chameleon Enthusiast
I would like someone to explain how a bio active system benefits chameleons in captivity? It’s solely for the benefit of those owners who want to clean up less often because having waste lay around can only pose a hazard. The likelihood of a chameleon stepping on or ingesting fecal matter in the wild is slim to none, considering the expansive areas in which they live. We typically provide them with a 24” x 24” (or about) floor and to leave their droppings on that small of a space... in close proximity to where they live, eat, and sleep...to me at least...seems contrary to the principles of good husbandry.
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jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Wow you have no clue what you're saying and probably should not post regarding the subject before doing more research. And BTW, bio enclosures are simply the most beautiful. Bio enclosures a septic system? How do you take the time to post all of that while being so far off?
People, please be aware of the experience/knowledge of the people you take advice from on these forums.
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Andrew1283
Chameleon Enthusiast
I would like someone to explain how a bio active system benefits chameleons in captivity? It’s solely for the benefit of those owners who want to clean up less often because having waste lay around can only pose a hazard. The likelihood of a chameleon stepping on or ingesting fecal matter in the wild is slim to none, considering the expansive areas in which they live. We typically provide them with a 24” x 24” (or about) floor and to leave their droppings on that small of a space... in close proximity to where they live, eat, and sleep...to me at least...seems contrary to the principles of good husbandry.
Andrew1283
Chameleon Enthusiast
And yes we should all beware of what information we receive. I would like to know who among those making the argument for a bio active system is a veterinarian or microbiologist or what veterinarian or microbiologist said it was a safe and a good alternative to a bare bottom.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Once again, proving how little you know what you're talking about. I'm all for helping people with bio, but making statements like these means you've done next to no actual reading on what bioactive is, yet you're ranting about it. Many/most of the best keepers in the world use bio. Breeders often don't in order to track fecals easier and many newbies don't because they think it's complicated(it's not). I've had a dozen or more bio enclosures for my female and male panthers and my yellow lip parsonii. I've never had a single issue. I haven't seen anyone on these forums have an issue from bio keeping. I also keep my feeders bioactive, which keeps them cleaner. It is the safest way to prevent build up of bad bacteria or fungi. Barebottom is fine too if you prefer, but my chams have all seemed more at ease in bio enclosure. Humidity is also easier to control, prevents bad bacteria/fungi build up from aerobic beneficial bacteria outcompeting, poop is gone within hours from cleaners, and it just looks better...
Andrew1283
Chameleon Enthusiast
Oh boy here we go.
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Andrew1283
Chameleon Enthusiast
Read the attached post from Erklerose about veiled chameleons and how bioactive systems are not good for them, since they have a propensity toward eating substrate.... The original question was about whether a bio active system is recommended for a veiled chameleon. So no, I also would not recommend a bio active system for her veieled chameleon. I guess you need to do some more reading.
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Rhea’s mum
Established Member
I don't have the sources, maybe @jamest0o0 can help me there, but most of the time Veileds eat the soil because of a mineral imbalance.
Yes veiled are like toddlers and put everything in their mouth but with having a bioactive enclosure the CUC and good bacteria override the bad in there therefore less issues. The main issue with the veiled eating their bioactive substrate is if you haven't mixed correctly or put the wrong quantities in of moss and bark.
Kids eat sand and dirt from outside when they are young (or used to at least) and you can't test what is in that before they put it in them. They are all fine.
In the wild its not just their own faeces think of the areas they inhabit. Insects, other reptiles, primates, birds, I'd even go as far as to say human sewage. They will be ingesting bacteria and faeces all the time in the wild. Nothing lives in a completely sterile environment.
Yes veiled are like toddlers and put everything in their mouth but with having a bioactive enclosure the CUC and good bacteria override the bad in there therefore less issues. The main issue with the veiled eating their bioactive substrate is if you haven't mixed correctly or put the wrong quantities in of moss and bark.
Kids eat sand and dirt from outside when they are young (or used to at least) and you can't test what is in that before they put it in them. They are all fine.
In the wild its not just their own faeces think of the areas they inhabit. Insects, other reptiles, primates, birds, I'd even go as far as to say human sewage. They will be ingesting bacteria and faeces all the time in the wild. Nothing lives in a completely sterile environment.
