Hurry! Deathbed Cristatus available!

[DeremensisBlue]

Ad says "good looking imports" on some cristatus! Take a look at this fine specimen which is "eating well".

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=52&de=919570

"Ready for new homes!"

( resting home, that is...)

 

[Dez]

Wild caught chameleons are more often than not in rough shape. It is not uncommon to see them in that condition.

They need a lot of work to be brought back around.

I don't like buying WCs.. i feel bad for them

 

[SSimsswiSS]

Bone dry environment. I could say some other things too, as I bite lip.

 

[Cainschams]

Yeah, I saw that. I couldnt get into selling WC imports. There is no way I could even think about selling an animal in that condition. Poor thing.

 

[ataraxia]

Honestly, they all came in absolutely horrid condition. They look like the gracefuls/senegals usually look like when they come in. Its just sad to see these shameless vendors trying to resale them. Clearly ken foose is scum trying to recoop funds.

I have three left out of 10. 2 will make it and the other one has a 50/50 chance.

 

[Dean Pulcini]

I metioned this last week. Thought about calling him. I went to Vegas and saw his shop I called it Exotic death.

 

[carol5208]

omg, that is soooo sad. Poor little chams.

 

[DanSB]

I see this sort of thing a lot when I browse the various classifieds. I seriously wonder how these people stay in business and why the Chameleon (herp) community as a whole doesn't condemn them.

Is it because they offer fresh genetic material for breeding programs? Is it because we think the worst possible capture and transport need to be used to ensure only the strong make it to captivity? The goal can't be just to turn a buck, there are much much better and easier ways to make money.

The whole thing just irritates me. There has got to be a better way. I can get a 500lb piece of freight to China in 24 hours I am sure they can move these faster and care for them better on either end.

 

[pssh]

There are quarantine issues. I don't know exactly how long the have to be in order to enter the country, but I would imagine it plays a big part in their condition.

 

[ataraxia]

May play a part but these chams were initially shipped in not so great condition from the farms/exporters in cameroon. i could be wrong but i think the shipments from cameroon go to south africa first, then to london and then to the states. Shitty farms with no rules or regulations + longer time in transit = bad deal.

 

[pssh]

It's just all bad.

Most chameleons can't be bred pat F5 without adding some fresh (WC) genetics. We seem to be lacking something in our husbandry skills that keeps them strong enough to continue to produce for that many generations. I believe only veileds have been bred past F5 without new genes.

 

[ataraxia]

very true.

 

[DanSB]

There are quarantine issues. I don't know exactly how long the have to be in order to enter the country, but I would imagine it plays a big part in their condition.

USDA does not require a quarantine for lizards and only regulates turtles. USFWS (Fish and Wildlife Service) does regulate but I can find no mention of quarantine, they are mainly checking cites papers and such.

On another note it is my personal belief that breeding past F5 is difficult because we aren't allowing enough selection to occur. If we let only a natural number of babies survive we could keep weak genes and negative mutations out of the captive gene pool, but as it stands now we work very hard to unnaturally keep babies alive which in turn grow to breed even if maybe they shouldn't. This might be mitigated a bit by the very tough importation process where weak individuals die off but then we could be killing strong individuals who just happened to be grabbed at a bad time so this doesn't work in my opinion.

If we want to breed past F5 we need to allow for a more natural rearing process where many babies die just like in nature... I don't have the stomach for it. This is just my educated guess based on what I know about biology and genetics.

 

[pssh]

Maybe what I'm remembering is quarantine/holding in the countries they have to pass through before they come to the states? Either way, any amount of time delays the process and makes them weaker.

 

[DanSB]

Yeah no matter if there is quarantine or not I doubt they are being shipped from Africa or Madagascar in any kind of priority shipment when they can be sold at 50 dollars each.

I just checked, Fed Ex international priority which is about the fastest you would get and will be 24 to 72 hours transit (From experience) for 5lb 12 inch cube from Zanzibar Tanzania to New York New York is about 490 bucks. Granted you would likely ship a larger box with more chameleons but this gives an idea at least. Live animals would likely increase customs time between 1 (best case) and 5 days in a box with no food or water would be normal in this best case.

Now we all know these 15 dollar senegals or the 75 dollar cresteds are not being shipped priority and shipment alone is taking a minimum of 10 days if everything goes well.

I guess what I am trying to say is we don't need quarantine to assume these poor chameleons are spending a lot of time in a box getting jostled about with no food or water in poor temperature conditions.

If I was to import a chameleon I would pay the big bucks, pre-notify customs, make sure all the paper was in order, and meet them at the customs facility they flew into. ut this would get very expensive very fast and we can rest assured importers do not do this now.