HOw do you know if your cham is dying?

[Sang]

I'm so happy to see this. I was freaking out at the first post suggesting she put the chameleon in the freezer. This time I decided to read through before commenting. This chameleon looks like she can be rehabilitated.

Whew!!!

ummm ehlissa, did you read through the whole thread, she went down hill very quickly and he did what he thought was right.


It's a shame that you ahd to experience this. its tuff the first time/every time it happens, you get attached to these animals very fast.

 

[CammieNLeno]

From reading the progress in this very sad thread.. i do honestly think you have what it takes to sucessfully take care of and enjoy a chameleon. I think that you might have inherited an already very sick chameleon.

I suggest that you get in touch with the numerous OUTSTANDING breeders this site has to offer and see what they have avalible. Part of the wonders of raising these things is getting them at a young age and watching them come to age (at least for me). If you are looking to start fresh and have a smidge eaiser time, i reccomend a male, as you wont have to deal with stresses of eggs, laying, nutrition, etc.

Dont give up, i think you just got unlucky

Best wishes!

 

[chamelisa]

ummm ehlissa, did you read through the whole thread, she went down hill very quickly and he did what he thought was right.

I don't know why but several posts weren't showing up when I first read through the thread. Had I known the chameleon was put in the freezer, I would have never posted.

I agree with Kinyonga. What more could I say?

Sorry for your loss.

 

[jeanieofthelamp]

you will know your cham is dying if its tail is straightened out instead of rolled, eyes are closed, and a general dull colour change. Hope that helps, is your cham on its way?

Are u sereous? Is this true? Please say no! Cause that is what my chameleon is doing. Hhasent opened his eyes for two weeks and his tail is dtraight and he is a pretty dull color most o the time. I hipe he doesnt die. I am sooo in love with him already!!please let me know if that is true.

 

[laurie]

I just put Betty int he freezer. I did all I can and I feel good about that. She was just laying there, her stomach hard and her legs completely limp with her eyes closed.. Thank you all so much for your help..I know its not my fault but it still hurts,, alot..RIP Black Betty,. Youll be missed......

I feel so bad for you, I feel like I have went throught it all with you. I am sitting here at 1:30 AM crying because I have had to do the same thing and I know it tears your heart out. We have some wonderful people on this forum who will help you pick a new cham when you are ready. You sure sounded like you make a good cham owner.

 

[sallyb]

I am so sorry she didn`t make it. Poor little girl. At least you gave her a few weeks of happiness before she went. Reading this thread back to front certainly taught me a many new things and i know it will not be of great consolation, but your terrible experience may help lots of other owners. It is clear you have lots of love to give a new cham when you feel ready.

 

[ciafardo 4]

That co2 chamber was way creepy and dark even the persons shirt in the pics was creepy and listen i know that its sad and all but if someone asked how do you know their cham is died the response about the x's was funny just not used here

 

[blackbetty]

Thank You everyone. It was not an easy decision by any means and I know I did what was right. I felt it last night. I looked over to where she stayed next to my bed and it was dark.. It made me sad (Gosh Im tearing up again!!) but I know that she is not suffering. I gave her all of my heart and every chance I could possibly do. Sucks that we do not have a qualified vet but from going through this,, I know what to look for and hopefully will have the resources to get it corrected early if need be. I do still have BEN dont forget about him! LOL.. SO yea, I have a young male at home who I spoil rotten. ELisa, Its okay.. I skim too and it's not your fault. I didn't want to use freezer method but she was already so slow, sluggish, and barely alive that I think it was just an easy go for her. Within an hour, she was gone. She didn't fight the towel around her at all. When I unwrapped her she had one little claw clutched on it....Thats was all the effort she had in her.. Im sorry.. Im not trying to upset anyone but I appreciate the nice words and emotions that you guys have given me...Its the best support group I could have right now!! Thank You!!!!

 

[RachelRiot]

I just wanted to offer my condolences. I have been reading this thread the last day or so and it still makes me cry. Putting a pet to sleep is the worst thing ever, your girl deserved to not have to be in pain/suffer and she is lucky to have an owner as strong as you are.

 

[blackbetty]

I just wanted to offer my condolences. I have been reading this thread the last day or so and it still makes me cry. Putting a pet to sleep is the worst thing ever, your girl deserved to not have to be in pain/suffer and she is lucky to have an owner as strong as you are.

That is such a sweet thing to say! I couldn't do it the night before..I just couldnt.. She had fight left in her so I thought I would try and I didn';t think she would make it through that night, but she did..but yesterday she was so weak and just made my heart hurt. Ive only ever put a cat to sleep before who was like the first child I ever had and I hoped to have never done it again (in fact Ive never owned a cat since).. but this was what needed to be done. iw ould have been ahorrible owner if I would have let her lay there and die on her own..It could have taken days or weeks and that is just inhumane moreso than the freezer method. Thank you for suggesting it Chuck as much as people might jump on you about it, it laid my sweet girl to rest. I still don't know FOR SURE what she had.. I thought MBD as she had sysmptoms but others say that she didn't look it so I guess I'll never know.. I just know with Ben, I can do everything hopefully right as good as I know how to avoid the same issues.. I know females are much harder. I thank you all once again for your kind words and tears you have shed with me.

 

[Paul R]

Sorry to hear that she passed away, lost some stock lately due to MBD, but a vet i know put them all down. Rather put the animal down that watch it suffer

 

[jernlee]

The closest seems to be Nashville but I dont have a way to get there as my husband takes the car during the day and by time he gets home, the vets are closed. There is nothing OTC i can do?? Ugh, I dislike strongly (momma said not to use the H word) people who arent responsible and take care of their pets correctly.. now I get to watch the poor girl suffer!!!!!!!!!!

Could you not take your husband to work and come back and get him?

 

[blackbetty]

Could you not take your husband to work and come back and get him?

My husband is Military so he goes in before the sun ever comes up and I have three kids that I would have to get out of bed and tote around, who would then be cranky all day, and then Id have to be on call to whenever my husband gets home from work..sometimes not until after midnite if he's jumping.. I understand the importance of taking care of a pet.. I feel a little offended that you apparently think I didnt try hard enough.. but I also have family too that I have to look out for first and foremost. I did what i can and I feel good about that. It was bad timing..Normally I have the car since my husband has his own but it broke down last week and with him going away for training soon, there wasnt a need to fix it right away. Feel better?

 

[jernlee]

Didn't mean to offend you, I was thinking of the life of the cham.

 

[blackbetty]

Are You Serious!?

Didn't mean to offend you, I was thinking of the life of the cham.

I did all I could..moreso than the lady who had her for the 6months before me or the petshop that had her for the 6 months before that.. I had her less than 2 months and I adored her. I would never cut corners and let her suffer if I had a way around it. Like I said, I have other "priorities" but that doesnt mean I didn't do EVERYTHING I could for her.. Believe me, I have consulted many people on and off this board and if I am at peace with my decision, then why should anyone question it. YOU didn't watch her suffer and drag her legs. YOU didn't see her flop over and not have the strength to get back up. YOU didn't call the vet or try to find a way to get her there but came up empty handed..YOU didnt wrap her in the towel and place her in the freezer.. You didnt cry yourself to sleep last night thinking about you failed..and YOU didn't open your heart up on a public forum and be judged for the things you COULDN"T do instead of the things you did...Thank you, Im walking away now. (forgive me everyone.. really, but I am having a difficult time right now and this just was a major blow to me) Im done on this topic. My chameleon is dead.. Unless you have been through it, don't tell me what I did or didnt do please.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Betty of Black

Just read all the posts. Wanted to throw out some thoughts to random things that stuck with me.

While calcium injections or oral calcium dosing was recommended, there is also no certainty that a lack of calcium getting into your animal was the problem, or that such treatments would have helped. This late in the game, it was probably the best advice though. Other explanations could have been vitamin deficiencies, organ failure, etc.

There was talk of using a liquid calcium product. It can be bought on-line too, and is not prescription required. It was mentioned that since it was syrupy, there might be concern about possible inhalation. For the record, while there is always a risk of inhalation with any oral liquid given to a restrained animal, it is only an elevated concern when the liquid is oil based, such as many vitamin A and E solutions in a non bi-polar solvent (such as what is in gel caps). Chameleons show a far greater revulsion to oil-based solutions, and oil is far more damaging when inhaled. Liquid calcium supplements are water based, and pose a far reduced risk hazard. I have dosed thousands of chameleons with liquid calcium products and never lost one. I learned the hard way with oil-based products, and I did not need to dose even 100 to find out.

Since your animal had laid eggs recently, this could have antagonized an existing calcium issue. It is not uncommon for egg production and egg laying to push calcium-weak females over the edge.

I agree with those who say that freezing may cause some distress to the animal, along with decapitation. I also feel it is equally or more ethically challenging to let an animal die a slow death if no other means of euthenasia is available. I therefore applaud your decision to freeze the animal given the ready (or not-ready) options available to you.

A friend often says that "those that know the most about chameleon keeping have also killed the most". There is a direct correlation. We learn. Good luck in the future.

 

[blackbetty]

Thank you. I did inquire if the calcium could be bought without seeing a vet and no one responded therefore I did not have any other avenues to explore. I appreciate the input and will def, keep in mind for future. THanks so much for taking the time to reply!

 

[Lizardlover]

I just read through this whole thread tearing up, you WERE a good owner and did the right decision, good luck if you decide to get a new chameleon

 

[jannb]

It is NOT HUMANE to put her in the freezer. Its a painful slow death for a chameleon...and not acceptable according to the American Veterinary Medical Association. (BTW, decapitation is not acceptable for chameleons either.)

If your chameleon has MBD it needs more calcium than you are giving it. You can buy a liquid calcium (calcium sandoz or calcium gluconate) at a pharmacy. Its supposed to be more readily absorbed than the powders. Its syrupy and must be given carefully in small amounts to the chameleon so that it can swallow it properly and not get it into its lungs. Your chameleon is in trouble and needs help right away. Please take it to a good reptile vet QUICKLY.

Also, the reptivite has preformed vitamin A and IMHO you would be better to be using Rep-Cal phos.-free calcium/D3 right now.

Make sure that she is within 12 or so inches of the UVB to ensure that she gets the most benefit from it right now.

Above it said you could buy liquid calcium at the pharmacy.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Betty of Black

Having fun with your name.

Here is a link for a liquid calcium solution that I use. 2 drops per 50G of chameleon every 10 days. 3 drops for females preparing to breed or gravid, or which laid in the 30 days prior.

http://shopping.yahoo.com/s:Nutritional Supplements:4168-Brand=Calcionate Syrup

It has a long shelf life, longer if refrigerated. It is relatively inexpensive.

As noted when mentioned by another poster, it is more effective in our opinion than any dusted product. With most chameleons, when you grab them behind the head, they will say "Ahhh" quite voluntarily. If they don't, you will have to become more annoying to them ! I think you did well with some difficult decisions.