help Louie acting sick

[jeanie]

Hello, I broke my leg and was in the hospital awhile. I can't get around well so I trusted others to care for my critters. I noticed Louie is not acting normal. Husbandry, cage accesories

completely screen cage 30"X18"x30"
light 100 watt uva/uvb heat bulb
temp under bulb where louie basks 90-95 F
temp at bottom of cage 70-75F
humidity 40-60%
mist cage 2xday
drip system 1-2 hrs a day I use a IV drip bag
plants are nephthytis syngonium species ( greengold , rubrum, and silver)
I use a combo of real and fake vines, fake ivy.
Real vines are home grown wild grape vines
Bottom of cage has eco earth
Cage kept in kitchen window with heated greenhouse outside window
Feeding is dusted crickets ( t-rex chameleon dust) superworms and as a treat wax worms

Louie has slowed down his eating. He also seems to sleep more. His color is too dark. He does not have any strength. When he falls asleep he almost falls of his branch. I will try to figure out how to put pics in here.

I can't say if he has been drinking or pooping etc. I was in the hospital for a while with a broken leg. I don't think the temp care taker was misting long enough or using my drip method. They thought it was not necessary.

My vet told me to raise the temp in his cage to over 120F , and if he is not better by morning I could bring him in for a vitamin shot. That doesn't sound right to me... Any suggestions in the mean time? I am worried he is dehydrated

Thank You for any advice. Jeanine & Louie

 

[Julirs]

He looks BURNED. Could he be burned? He is dehydrated and his casque looks terrible. I would never raise temps that high.

 

[Julirs]

He needs to see the Vet ASAP. A couple of other things. Do you have a UVB light on him? Type and brand? You should not have substrate in the cage at all.

 

[jeanie]

re

Hello, The vet is the one who told me to raise the temp to over 120F Which I DID NOT DO! I think the vet is a reptile idiot. I do not have a vet in town that will see patients on a sunday. I could try to find a vet in a larger town tomarrow, but I can't get around with a broken leg very well.

There should be no way Louie would get burned. I refused to listen to the vet. I will not put him directly under the light as I stated a 100watt T-Rex uva/uvb heat lamp
I think the vet is wrong about the temp. I also think is he is dehydrated raising the temp will make it worse.

The substrate is kinda needed in the pots of the plants. I tried live plants in water only, but he kept knocking them over and making a mess. Why should I not have any substrate? I swap the plants out every couple weeks to make sure no solids pile up..

his casque has been that way since he was a tiny baby...it is very crooked but has been like that since he was only 3 months old

 

[Justin Carl]

How long has he been under the Mercury Vapor Bulb?
Did he suffer from MBD as a baby?
Do you think he injested something?
He might be impacted.

 

[jeanie]

Louie has been under the same type of bulb since he was 6 months old. I have replaced the bulb several times. The last time was about 2 months ago.

I have had him since he was 3 months old, and always made sure his crickets were dusted, and raised myself ( 500 very young crickets + 2 months growout)

I make sure his plants are home grown with no chemicals. The grapevines, fake vines are all old ( I just wash them with very hot water if poo on)

Louie could have ingested some eco-earth ( soil substitute in plant pot) It is an all natural reptile safe substitute with no perlite vermiculite etc.

He usually never goes down to the bottom or near the pots. He stays up top and eats the leaves of the plants all the time ( that is why I have to swap them occasionally)

I could take all the plants out. I just know he really likes eating the plants, and drinking from the leaves.

I would rush him off to the nearest vet if I thought anyone around here wasn't a complete idiot. I also can't drive so a 2 hr cab ride would be expensive...

Let me know if any more info would help...More Pictures?

 

[jeanie]

louie's age approx 3years

Here is a picture of Louie when he was about 9-10 months old. He ate like a pig back then...

 

[Julirs]

I still don't understand the black markings that look like burns???

 

[chamlover]

I have 2 male veileds and they don't look anything like that. I also don't have a reptile vet that knows anything near me. When mine get sick i have to drive over 1 1/2 hours, but it's worth it. I really think yu should bring him in to see someone. Don't you have someone who can give you a ride? Also you don't have to take the plants out, just put them in pots. Impaction is too big of a concern for me, i would just keep picking up the pots or get heavier bottoms for them.

Let us know what happens.
Debby

 

[SSimsswiSS]

I could take all the plants out. I just know he really likes eating the plants, and drinking from the leaves.

IMHO this is a sign of not getting enough water. A veil will associate plant leaves with water. If theres no droplets on the leaves when really thirsty, next reaction is to take out the leaf that was previous source for water.
If your dusting every feeding, than I'd say you have a very thirsty dude with dried out kidneys.

Bottomline; More water, less feeding. I know it's our gut reaction to try to feed more when our chameleons look thin or sick. But water go's a long ways in correcting internal issues, that translates into outer health and appearance.

 

[jeanie]

re Louie

Hello, The black color is not permanent. I put him in the shower ( not under water directly). He got to have a sort of steam bath for about 20 minutes. He turned a nice green/yellow while I had him in there. He also drank some water off the ficus leaves. I put the whole tree in the shower. When I picked him up to put him back into the cage he turned the brown again. He also did his puff-up stick the spines out thing. I think he is sick of me

I will try to find someone to take me to a vet if I can find a decent one. I just got out of the hospital so it is pretty hard for me to get around. That is why someone else was feeding him.

The temporary care taker did not realize you mist them until they drink. They made sure to dust the crickets, but didn't realize the importance of misting. My vet told me I HAD TO DUST EVERY TIME. He said if I didn't Louie would get metabolic disease. Well my vet also told me I had to keep his cage at over 120F. I know that's wrong. I know he eats....DARN I feel stupid! The care taker also admitted they did not turn on the drip system cause they couldn't reach it. I hate being incapacitated!

Yeah Louie pretty much only drinks water off the leaves or actually he usually eats the whole leaf when it is wet. I thought it was normal for veiled to eat plants for moisture.

Oh yeah the plants are all in pots. Otherwise it would be way too hard to keep rotating them after he munches them. I never really saw him go down to the bottom and go in the pots. I use paper towel under the pots on top of bottom. That way it is easier to clean, and I can check the poo. I don't know what it looked like while I was in the hospital. My friend was kind enough to make sure to clean it before I got home. Asking her what it looked like didn't work.

If his kidneys are damaged there will be nothing I can do? If I try to get him hydrated will it help. I bet this is why my best friends veiled cham died. She used the same reptile vet I do. I know he told her to dust crickets every day, and keep the temp in the cage over 120F. He also told her not to mist as it might shock her veiled. He told her to put a waterfall in ( which he loved pooping in) Her cham died when it was about 3 yrs old too. I don't imagine they have dialysis for reptiles

Thank You all so much for the help. I hope to have better news in the morning. It is bed time for me and mine...

Jeanine & Louie

 

[Julirs]

That Vet is an idiot. Please don't see him again. The shower was a great idea! I would keep misting him maybe up to 5X daily for awhile. I am not too familiar with the dust you use. Many people recommend Repcal with D3(4-5X weekly), Repcal without D3(2-3X monthly),and Herptivite(1X monthly). There are varying supplemental schedules out there, and many people do one day with nothing.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

That Vet is an idiot. Please don't see him again. The shower was a great idea! I would keep misting him maybe up to 5X daily for awhile. I am not too familiar with the dust you use. Many people recommend Repcal with D3(4-5X weekly), Repcal without D3(2-3X monthly),and Herptivite(1X monthly). There are varying supplemental schedules out there, and many people do one day with nothing.

I think Juli meant without D3, 4 to 5 times weekly, and with D3, 2 to 3 times monthly.

-Brad

 

[Julirs]

Yep-I certainly messed that one up! Thanks Brad! I guess I should not be typing at 5 in the morning!

 

[SSimsswiSS]

After reading your last post, I'm thinking something must be bothering him in his surrounding. Does he try to hide? Or more out in the open? Do all four sides of cage seem open to animals view? I'd try blocking his view on two sides of the cage. Can be as simply as put up sheets or cardboard. This may give him a more secure feeling. Cause we now know he has ability to change to his happy colors in the shower, and the black, dull colors are not bruise or burns.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

good advice. I use repcal with D3 and mineral without D3. The reason being is that minerall has some other trace minerals, not just calcium. But I trust repcal for D3 - I have raised hundreds of babies on repcal alone (before UVB bulbs) with no Metabolic bone disease - it's a great product.

I do things a tad differently - instead of supplementing with D3 a few times a month, I do it twice a week, but with tiny tiny amounts. I mix repcal (with D3) and minerall (without) in about a 1:2 ratio, and I just dust a single insect or so. This way, the supplements are not being given in large doses.

I find it easier - but I'm certainly in the minority!

Put him in a shower with warm water for a while - he'll drink if he needs to.

120 degrees is crazy. It's so crazy, I suspect there was miscommunication with your vet. With the amount of training and education required, they should know better!!!

 

[jeanie]

Woops dust has d3 used every day

Hello, Louie's cage is only open in the front. The back is against a window which shows a view of the heated greenhouse. He usually goes outside in his Ficus tree when it is warm enough. The greenhouse has between 60-80% humidity.

I think my vet believes that all reptiles get the same care. I remember him telling me to feed Louie Broccoli and Cauliflower like I did my Iguanas. I wish it were mis- communication. I bet a lot of people lost reptiles by listening to him.

Yeah my dust contains d3. That is why I chose it Dumb dumb. I probably killed him with kindness. I so vigilantly dusted his crickets every day

If I would have to choose something that is stressing him out it would be me...

I keep pestering him because I want to see if he will drink or poop etc.

I know what he is thinking " Leave me Alone!" Well being cranky is normal for him.

I called a vet from another town who was on call. He said to keep giving him baths, and misting. He only works on Wed and Fri. I just hope he gets better.

Thank You so much for the help.

Jeanine& Louie

 

[jeanie]

Update on Louie

Hello, Well good news and bad. I finally found a reptile vet about an hour away. Good news is that he was reptile smart...Bad news is that Louie probably won't make it. He gave him fluids, and told me to just keep up with what I was doing. He said he agrees that I probably gave him too much d3. I did not realize it could be toxic. I just assumed since the product and my original vet said to dust food every day that is what I did. It makes complete sense now that I realize how much he used to eat.

Louie is very weak and won't even hang on to branches any more. If he doesn't get better by Fri. the vet said to bring him back to say good bye. He did eat a wax worm today, and have healthy looking poo etc. If the kidneys are too far damaged it is too late. I feel so dumb. My boyfriend told me not to get a new cham if I lose Louie. He said it would not be fair to the animal. Louie is only 3 1/2 yrs old so I know I screwed up

It is difficult having a pet that even the vet tells you to take care of wrong.
If it would not be fair to get a new cham because I screwed up would an anole be happy in my Louie's cage? If Louie doesn't make it?

I know if Louie were feeling better he would try to eat a green anole.

Thank You everyone I hope louie gets better. I feel like such a bad mom

 

[stevereecy]

Sounds like you need a new boyfriend. 3.5 years is a pretty good run for a first cham. Probably longer than the boyfriend will last if he doesn't believe in you.

Steve

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Don't beat yourself up over this, Jeanie.
3.5 years is pretty darn good.
FWIW, my first cham only lived a year. I know I made a number of bad mistakes with my first cham, but that only taught me how to be a better keeper.

Best of luck,

Suzanne