Harder to care for panther morphs?

cambech said:
Harry,
What's the bloodline on that guy? what kind of cross is he? He's nice looking.
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sire was Odo. 50% Sambava x 25% Ambilobie x 25% Nosy Be
got him by mistake. couldn't have been more happy.

do a search of my name "warpdrive" and of "threads started by user" to find his whole life growing up on this forum.

Harry
 
pssh said:
When someone lies or gets confused.
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it's still a cross.
a lier can lie about a pure and it will still be pure....just not what you wanted.
a thief is a thief regardless of pure or cross. it happens all the time.

if someone is that confused to not know their stock, then would you buy from them?

it's why you don't buy from someone you don't trust.

Harry
 
A cross is a cross, and should stay a cross. Under those circumstances, I think crossing is fine. Lies about lineage/pure-ness make crosses 'bad.'
 
warpdrive said:
and how does a cross become a pure?

Harry
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pssh said:
When someone lies or gets confused.
Click to expand...

warpdrive said:
it's still a cross.
a lier can lie about a pure and it will still be pure....just not what you wanted.
a thief is a thief regardless of pure or cross. it happens all the time.

if someone is that confused to not know their stock, then would you buy from them?

it's why you don't buy from someone you don't trust.

Harry
Click to expand...

"Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view"

-Yoda
 
Pssh, I got what you meant lol If someone has a cross that "magically" becomes a pure Ambilobe or whatnot as soon as they're selling it or it's offspring.

Don't be hatin' on the poor crosses! Can't there be a SINGLE thread about them that doesn't end up with some kind of negative comment against them?
 
Oh yeah, and it's not me I'm worried about buying from a not so good seller, it's all the people who get the animal before they figure everything out then decide to breed them after they do.
 
Why would someone sell a pure locale as a cross? I'm not understanding our disagreement on the subject? I'm confused. :)
 
Todnedo said:
Just say NO to "crosses":eek:
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I agree!! But that is a different story.

What I would like to know is how one can say there is no difference in care between the locales? Personally I am not so up to par on the different ranges the locales come from but. I would think one from more souther east coast as Tamatave would have some what different conditions, maybe altitude etc as one from at the northern tip on the west coast as Diego Suarez? If so one would think it wouldnt be a good idea to cross those locales together because of the different conditions they come from.

But I may be wrong. After all, 12 hours on 12 hours off lighting, 3 mist sessions a day, same amount of bugs etc seems to be the optimum care for panthers:rolleyes:

Just a thought here. I could be way off. Anyone have any thoughts?
 
I don't think you are way off cainschams about natural conditions.

I think your thoughts are excellent.

But panthers are very adaptable for chameleons and pretty hardy when it comes to conditions.

The other thought I have is I believe I remember reading that at least some morphs are seasonal breeders in the wild. In captivity that goes out the window in our endless summer terrariums. I think this illustrates how wild conditions are not mandatory for some level of quality of life and it also demonstrates how they adaptable they are to environmental conditions- in this case by becoming more prolific and breeding year round in a presumably favourable environment.

But at the same time, if we carefully replicated wild conditions we would probably learn some things that might improve husbandry...
 
Cainschams said:
I agree!! But that is a different story.

What I would like to know is how one can say there is no difference in care between the locales? Personally I am not so up to par on the different ranges the locales come from but. I would think one from more souther east coast as Tamatave would have some what different conditions, maybe altitude etc as one from at the northern tip on the west coast as Diego Suarez? If so one would think it wouldnt be a good idea to cross those locales together because of the different conditions they come from.

But I may be wrong. After all, 12 hours on 12 hours off lighting, 3 mist sessions a day, same amount of bugs etc seems to be the optimum care for panthers:rolleyes:

Just a thought here. I could be way off. Anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...
interesting....
fluxlizard said:
I don't think you are way off cainschams about natural conditions.

I think your thoughts are excellent.

But panthers are very adaptable for chameleons and pretty hardy when it comes to conditions.

The other thought I have is I believe I remember reading that at least some morphs are seasonal breeders in the wild. In captivity that goes out the window in our endless summer terrariums. I think this illustrates how wild conditions are not mandatory for some level of quality of life and how they adaptable they are to environmental conditions- in this case by becoming more prolific and breeding year round.

But at the same time, if we carefully replicated wild conditions we would probably learn some things that might improve husbandry...
Click to expand...

hmm.......nice thought...
i wouldnt mind doin that....
 
i think we all need to buy what we want and be very sure we know what we want and what we are buying.

I think Kara was saying, a person could sell a cross as a pure, & Harry was saying a cross isn't "bad".
Those two statements have nothing to do with each other and are not contradicting each other.

I like Jared's comment on considering where in Maddy the panthers come from. A lot of people don't know or even care. I also believe the care for panthers is fairly standard these days.

In my world I would like to follow fluxlizard - I wish we could keep each and every one in the conditions they came from. Sadly that is not possible, but the closer we come to that the better for our chameleons. Our husbandry may be adequate, but we have soooo much to learn. I know I miss the mark on keeping some of mine even close to what they came from. I think all of us are kidding ourselves if we don't admit we are not mother nature.
 
Cainschams said:
I agree!! But that is a different story.

What I would like to know is how one can say there is no difference in care between the locales? Personally I am not so up to par on the different ranges the locales come from but. I would think one from more souther east coast as Tamatave would have some what different conditions, maybe altitude etc as one from at the northern tip on the west coast as Diego Suarez? If so one would think it wouldnt be a good idea to cross those locales together because of the different conditions they come from.

But I may be wrong. After all, 12 hours on 12 hours off lighting, 3 mist sessions a day, same amount of bugs etc seems to be the optimum care for panthers:rolleyes:

Just a thought here. I could be way off. Anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Jared, I agree to a point with you.

in my house there is a seasonal change. summers are winter due to the cold weather from my AC.
the winters are summer, due to my heat from my radiators.

latitudal lighting conditions are basicly 12 hours on, 12 hours off, due to it only being a small real change if I wanted to go there to match the wild...
the summer would be 13 hours on and 11 hours off, while the winters would be 11 hours on and 13 hours off. (for the newbie, you may as well do 12 on, 12 off)

now that I have (and am getting) animals that are far away from the equator and require such latitudal light change to help stimulate breeding...I'm already slowly making a change.

but in the case with the difference in panther locals, such drastic differances in tempiture and lighting, as well as rain fall are almost exact.
all because they are all low land jungle chameleons. they just were seperated due to how the earth changed when Maddy broke apart from Africa.

so a sambava can be treated like a ambanja due to the altitude that it lives in is basicly the same, and the rainfall is more or less the same. and the temps and humidity is close enough to be almost the same.

I hope I made sence.

Harry
 
I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure someone had commented from their experiences that ankaramy crosses were harder to raise. Or maybe it was just ankaramy babies in general? Eh, either way it shows a different in difficulty and climate differences.
 
pssh said:
I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure someone had commented from their experiences that ankaramy crosses were harder to raise. Or maybe it was just ankaramy babies in general? Eh, either way it shows a different in difficulty and climate differences.
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STOP IT RIGHT NOW PLEASE!!!!!!

if you are not sure of what you are talking about, please do NOT post just to post something.

you are not helping, you are hurting.

I'll continue with such rubbish in my next post....
 
warpdrive said:
Jared, I agree to a point with you.

in my house there is a seasonal change. summers are winter due to the cold weather from my AC.
the winters are summer, due to my heat from my radiators.

latitudal lighting conditions are basicly 12 hours on, 12 hours off, due to it only being a small real change if I wanted to go there to match the wild...
the summer would be 13 hours on and 11 hours off, while the winters would be 11 hours on and 13 hours off. (for the newbie, you may as well do 12 on, 12 off)

now that I have (and am getting) animals that are far away from the equator and require such latitudal light change to help stimulate breeding...I'm already slowly making a change.

but in the case with the difference in panther locals, such drastic differances in tempiture and lighting, as well as rain fall are almost exact.
all because they are all low land jungle chameleons. they just were seperated due to how the earth changed when Maddy broke apart from Africa.

so a sambava can be treated like a ambanja due to the altitude that it lives in is basicly the same, and the rainfall is more or less the same. and the temps and humidity is close enough to be almost the same.

I hope I made sence.

Harry
Click to expand...

Made no sense to me. Because my chams know its winter. Just because the heat is running they dont think its summer time man. Just the opposite they sloow down food intake and go to sleep about an hr earlier. They can detect seasonal changes even if they are housed indoors.

And you can keep a sambava and an ambanja in identical conditions in captivity. But that doesnt mean they arent from entirely different geographic regions. I mean one locale comes from the rain forest and the other from a drier savannah like area.
 
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