Greenhouses

[Pure]

Ok for those keeping chams in greenhouses, or those with a greenhouse, cham or not. Have you ever used a UV meter to test the UV coming in through the house panels? I see people mentioning keeping chams in greenhouses. I know of a local breeder here who has a website but not on this forum who uses a green house.

I was under the impression than any plastic or glass that the light has to pass through will filter UV by a great deal. Someone here reported almost no UV reading right next to a glass window. So if you keep your chams in a green house did you do anything to solve this, like add lighting. Or have you actually kept the chams in there long enough for MBD to even be an issue?

Most might think Greenhouses would allow UV to pass through them, but not really. If you think about it, UV has little if anything to do with photosynthesis. The Kelvin rating of the light is pretty much all the plant needs (without going into greater detail) from the light source. As a matter of fact I've read info on some commercial GHs for sale that advertise the panels being UV resistant, as UV rots/breaks down plastic.

So this leaves me really wondering and questioning the use of greenhouses for chams.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Correct most Green House skin coverings let in 0% UVB rays thru. To compensate I in the past with my Green House have outdoor sunning cages and indoor sunning terrariums (with 2 to 4 Zoomeds above each terrarium) and rotate between the green house and the enclosures that recieve UVB. There are some special skins for green houses that let UVB thru however their tough to find, expensive, and some have to be replaced after a while. I instead am in the process of installing an industrial size metal halide lamp in my green house that should provide for the UVB requirement for my chameleons. Plus I have got a UVB meter to monitor what kind of UVB rays my chameleons are being exposed to (plus overall these meters are good tools for herp keepers). If your interested in Greenhouses, I can say I think Green Houses have taken my chameleon keeping practices to another level.

 

[Pure]

It's a logical step in husbandry for me considering where I live. Why pay for my AC to fight the heat from the lighting.

I just really wonder how many have thought about this as an issue. And if not have they had any issues.

I was also looking for affirmation, so thank you for your reply.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

The industrail Metal Halides get warm and during the summer sould not be run all day long (run all day in the winter though acts like a space heater) however they are designed to be cost effective and the Metal halide that I purchased (and was recomended to me from the guys in the greenhouse at UC Davis) covers a 12 by 12 area and only costs $11.00 a month for electricity. The high UVB rays that come from the metal halide (zoo med tube do not put out much UVB) and the hourly misting / shower system is tough to top.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

You can buy panels that let the rays in, but they come with a high price tag.

 

[bbqandtinyb]

This is the closest thing you'll get to natural UV: Solacryl It's crazy expensive and kinda hard to come by. I've been thinking about a greenhouse setting since I live in southern California, but I always come by more obstacles when I start planning out the details. If the roofing is the ideal roofing which allows natural sunlight in, while keeping predators out, I begin to worry about keeping individual cages. They are usually made out of fine screen that filters out even more UV, which kind of defeats the purpose of the greenhouse to me
If no roofing panels were used to to allow UV, keeping humidity up would be kinda tough. A lot of variables though, just depends on your specific climate. Something to chew on... but you sound like you're planning things out beforehand so keep on asking questions. Make sure you don't forget about the little things like keeping humidity up or even having too much humidity (depending on the type of roofing you decide on), feeder availability (if you're going to free range), and location of the greenhouse (giving your chameleons a place to hide out if it gets too hot), etc.

 

[Pure]

I'm actually planning on just the cheap ol reg green house, but using some form of lighting to provide UV. The MH bulbs would be a good idea but the heat from them would be problematic seeing as I'm already going to need a swamp cooler due to our high summer temps. I'm more along the lines thinking 10.0 tubes in the roof and a second row of 5.0s under the bottom of the top row of cages for the lowers rows. With possibly running MHs during the winter months (2 months).

And yeah, I'm just kicking around ideas ATM as it will be summer time 2010 before I really need one.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

With my UVB meter (check out www.solarmeter.com/model62.html) you would be surprised how little UVB is emmitted from Zoo med and other Tubes. If you have a Green house skin that lets UVB through or metal halide lamps you can compare and take readings from inside your chameleons cages to see how much UVB your chameleons are recieving. Last night I took readings from the evening sun at about 7:00pm and got a reading of 145-155. I went inside and took measurements from my 18 inch Zoo Med (although they are old zoomeds) six inches away and got a measurement of 25. One thing I have heard about the pannels or skins that let UVB through for greenhouses is that they are expensive and only last a couple year (don't take my word for that though). Metal Halide emit much more UVB than UVB tubes and only have to be replace once a year and are not super expensive.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

With higher exposure to more UVB you would not have to run your Metal Halide UVB all day for your chameleons to gain their UVB requirements. During the summer I'm only planning on using mine at dawn for a couple hours then shutting the system off for the rest of the day. Once you have the lamp and the balist you can change to either larger or smaller bulbs that let out different amounts of UVB and heat. Once my metal halide is going for a while I'm going to post how its going. I still highly recomend green houses.

 

[Pure]

Your numbers on the zoo med looks a little low. How old are they. I'm pretty sure Kevin had readings much higher than that. But don't quote me on this. I do also remember someone posting readings in full shade outside that were much higher than our typical 5.0s.

I do see your point in not needing MHs to run all day. This might actually be a better option. Like I said I'm kicking around ideas. So again thanks for the input.

Also with being the "green" person that I am I might just look into the panels that allow UV through. You wouldn't need them on the whole roof. Just over the cages. But even still the cost in electricity saved would more than pay for them. At least in an ideal world. I will need to research initial cost vs electricity used for lights vs how long they last to come up with a solid decision.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

One thing you are over looking is that any panel on a greenhouse that recieves daily sun and misting has to be washed regularly or else milldue or mold will build up and block UVB and light transfer. With metal halides the panels washing is not super critical.

 

[Pure]

LOL hadn't over looked it..just hadn't thought about it yet.This idea is really in the infancy stages. But yeah again good point, and thanks.

I would love to see some pics of your setup.

edit: Just an FYI, inconvenience is one of my last concerns. Your talking to a person who gave up his car and built an electric bike as a sole means of transportation. So I'm all about doing what ever it takes to help the environment. So the panels, even if more labor intensive, may still be a better option..for me anyhow.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Would gladly post pictures however give me a while we are moving to a new house and are looking to upscale the green house from a 12 by 12 to a 12 by 18 and I'm not aquainted with how to up load pictures.

 

[Pure]

Sure..

Just load the pics to a photo bucket account then when you hover your pointer over the pic a drop down box will come up under the pic with several versions of links. Pic the bottomer one with

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I'm going to give it a go later tonight after work. I hope it works.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

My buddy Tod ( a techie) is busy tonight. I should post some pictures by tomarrow evening. Sorry a hand me down camera with no instructions that I never use and not familar with uploading and downloading. I have got the photo bucket account though.

 

[hemiram04]

I have been keeping chams in my greenhouse for about 6 years now with no additional uv lighting. I have no visible effects of any demise and they are doing better than when I used to keep them inside with uv fluro and mercury vapor bulbs. I will never go back to that again.

 

[Pure]

Yes, but are you using UV passive panels or have you ever actually tested for UV in the Greenhouse? They have to be getting UV/D3 from somewhere or else MBD would be ramped with your chams. Or at least should be via current scientific knowledge.

 

[ciafardo 4]

He could just be using calcium with d3. Years ago i never used uv lights just calcium with d3 i have since evolved but back then i never had any cases of mbd just got lucky i guess.

 

[hemiram04]

I have polycarbonate panels that allow 95% of uv through. I personally have not tested this, but I have faith in the company and the results seem to be working good.