ciafardo 4
New Member
Disgusting attitude!
Its not an attitude just a fact!
Going on vacation without cham, how to get him water constantly?!
- Thread starter v639dragoon
- Start date
Its not an attitude just a fact!
Metric
New Member
I have to agree with Brock on this one.
As long as the lights are on a timer, there's a dripper with a large reservoir dripping at an extremely slow rate, and a cup full of feeders I don't see the issue. Do whatever makes your conscience feel better i guess.
gl finding a sitter.
As long as the lights are on a timer, there's a dripper with a large reservoir dripping at an extremely slow rate, and a cup full of feeders I don't see the issue. Do whatever makes your conscience feel better i guess.
gl finding a sitter.
Lost Lake Chameleons
New Member
Brock is right!!! Leave a pod of hornworms in there and you chameleon will be healthier than it was when you left.
Never listen to the advice from someone who mists their veileds for 20 minutes five times a day. What a waste of water!
Seriously some people need to relax. And by the way, if you want to hold your chameleon, go for it!!!!
Never listen to the advice from someone who mists their veileds for 20 minutes five times a day. What a waste of water!
Seriously some people need to relax. And by the way, if you want to hold your chameleon, go for it!!!!
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
I find the advice quite troubling coming from some of the experienced keeper. While those keepers with experience can agree to disagree what is potentially dangerous is a new keeper deciding this is the green light to leave a Cham alone for an extended period of time without issue.
Chameleons are not just animals. They can and do die as a sole result of stress. Stress can bring on dormant diseases that the animal's immune system had been keeping at bay.
90-95% of Chameleon health issues are attributed to husbandry. To knowingly create a bad environment for a week and hope you can compensate before and after is rolling the dice with the animal's life.
Throwing in a bunch of feeders such as crickets and leaving them in there for days risks the chance that they will attack the Cham when they get hungry. There are numerous documented cases of this right here on this forums of Chams that are scared from this practice.
The advent of auto misting systems has been a boon to the hobby however they are not 100% reliable. A Cham will take a long time to die from lack of food and conversely will die very quickly from a lack of water. Several members have lost their Chams in one single day from dehydration. Granted some of these were Chams left outside and the misting systems failed however it has happened in doors as well. Bringing a Cham back from dehydration is a long process and no telling what damage has been done as to the internal organs as a result long term.
Look at this short video of my veiled drinking water. My two veileds drink this much water and more almost everyday. BTW He kept drinking for awhile longer even after the video stopped. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RUOI09JWHw
So for those new keepers who are reading this thread I ask you. Is it worth the risk?
Chameleons are not just animals. They can and do die as a sole result of stress. Stress can bring on dormant diseases that the animal's immune system had been keeping at bay.
90-95% of Chameleon health issues are attributed to husbandry. To knowingly create a bad environment for a week and hope you can compensate before and after is rolling the dice with the animal's life.
Throwing in a bunch of feeders such as crickets and leaving them in there for days risks the chance that they will attack the Cham when they get hungry. There are numerous documented cases of this right here on this forums of Chams that are scared from this practice.
The advent of auto misting systems has been a boon to the hobby however they are not 100% reliable. A Cham will take a long time to die from lack of food and conversely will die very quickly from a lack of water. Several members have lost their Chams in one single day from dehydration. Granted some of these were Chams left outside and the misting systems failed however it has happened in doors as well. Bringing a Cham back from dehydration is a long process and no telling what damage has been done as to the internal organs as a result long term.
Look at this short video of my veiled drinking water. My two veileds drink this much water and more almost everyday. BTW He kept drinking for awhile longer even after the video stopped. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RUOI09JWHw
So for those new keepers who are reading this thread I ask you. Is it worth the risk?
graydon
New Member
Be careful when you tell people to "go for it" if they want to hold their chameleon. Chameleons aren't meant to be held. They are shy, docile creatures made to mimic a leaf. They think almost anything around them is a possible threat.
Now, there is cases such as mine where I acquired a loving outgoing panther chameleon. THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR EVERYONE. My first vieled would run whenever I tried to pick her up, so I never did. You need time and a lot of attention with the cham for it to trust that your not a threat to there lives. I got my panther at 5 months of age and got him to eat out of my hands within 2 weeks.
If you hand mist everyday and put food in his cage everyday the cham will eventually learn that your not a threat. But there will be some chams that will not want to be to touched at all. There is another great thread about this somewhere else. I got my panther at 5 months and got him to eat out of my fingers within 2 weeks.
Zen Reptiles
Avid Member
If it was a montane species or a young panther, I'd never give advice to leave it alone for 6 days unless everything is automated and there was plenty of food, but a veiled is much more resilient and can make the trek without misting and can go a few days without food. A panther could also but would need automatic misting.
I'm sorry but 90% of these opinions are 'personal feelings' and mine is from experience.
I have left chameleons and other lizards to the care of family, with detailed instructions, when I am away for a month or more at a time, and I have always come back to at least one dead animal, or one that was oversupplemented, or underwatered.
I trust automation more than human error, and in 6 days if you get a friend to look after it, worse can happen in a short amount of time than if you had left him alone and done what I recommended. Now if you CAN find someone near you that can look after him, then
OBVIOUSLY
that is the best thing to do. Just hope their collection doesn't have coccidia I've heard some horror stories. Likewise make sure your cham doesn't infect their collection with anything.
I'm sorry but 90% of these opinions are 'personal feelings' and mine is from experience.
I have left chameleons and other lizards to the care of family, with detailed instructions, when I am away for a month or more at a time, and I have always come back to at least one dead animal, or one that was oversupplemented, or underwatered.
I trust automation more than human error, and in 6 days if you get a friend to look after it, worse can happen in a short amount of time than if you had left him alone and done what I recommended. Now if you CAN find someone near you that can look after him, then
OBVIOUSLY
that is the best thing to do. Just hope their collection doesn't have coccidia
I've heard some horror stories. Likewise make sure your cham doesn't infect their collection with anything.
summoner12
Avid Member
If it was a montane species or a young panther, I'd never give advice to leave it alone for 6 days unless everything is automated and there was plenty of food, but a veiled is much more resilient and can make the trek without misting and can go a few days without food. A panther could also but would need automatic misting.
I'm sorry but 90% of these opinions are 'personal feelings' and mine is from experience.
I have left chameleons and other lizards to the care of family, with detailed instructions, when I am away for a month or more at a time, and I have always come back to at least one dead animal, or one that was oversupplemented, or underwatered.
I trust automation more than human error, and in 6 days if you get a friend to look after it, worse can happen in a short amount of time than if you had left him alone and done what I recommended. Now if you CAN find someone near you that can look after him, then
OBVIOUSLY
that is the best thing to do. Just hope their collection doesn't have coccidia
Very well said Brock.
I don't think people realize how tough a veiled is. Think about it.... This is usually the first cham a person starts the hobby with. Before they find this forum, they have prolly done a LOT worse than leave a well situated veiled alone for 6 days.
My veileds are tough as nails. I am sure anyone on this forum who takes good care of their veiled can say the same thing.
Sure a failed water system in direct sunlight is a kiss of death. Sure a hot home in a hot part of the world with failed AC is a kiss of death..... heat will hurt and dehydrate the cham quickly... But if you can provide, as many people have said, a good envirement lacking food and water, he will be fine.
Again, as brock said.... obviously (and I AGREE) it is best to find someone to look after him. I have even offered my services for FREE.
People keep bringing up this 'senior member' stuff..... People with senior member status have it for a reason. They partake in discussions and provide info. You get the status, from reputation, given by other members. It isn't something a post whore can get. That being said, most 'senior' members have this status because of the fellow keepers on this forum. Obviously people have faith in their husbandry, advice and practices.
Yes, get a cham sitter. Could your cham make it? I think so. Would your cham be mad you left him alone? NO. Will he be sad? NO. Will he be alive, hungry and thirsty? Yes.
What should you do? find a sitter, worst case, he'll be fine alone if you give him some minor esentials that will last a couple of days into the 'alone time'.
Would I leave mine alone? No, I have WCs that need meds and I can't leave my system alone for that long yet... still need to work out the drainage.... But I could program less water useage for that time and make it work, if I had to.
And to any new members reading this. Do not do this with a new cham, a young cham or a cham who is ill. It is ALWAYS best to find a cham sitter.
HairyScaryMark
New Member
I have no real opinion on what the OP should do other than the fact they now have multiple offers of people willing to look after their chameleon so would seem like a sensible option.
I was away Thursday - Monday (4 nights) in August. I left my ~6 month old chameleon in the same place he usually is (a screen cage in my bedroom) under the supervision of my parents. I layed out groups of ~6 crickets in boxes with various fruit so all my parents would have to do was empty the contents of one the boxes into the chameleon cage each day and fill up my dripper system and mist the cage. I also had a box of pupating wax moths which I put in my chameleon cage and many must have hatched while I was away as few were found when I cleaned out the substate which I still had at the time(the pupating wax moths may have eliminated the need for additional food altogether). I explained all that was required to my parents before I left and believed they understood perfectly. I didn't get a phone call the entire time I was away and assumed the chameleon was doing fine.
I return and was told told my chameleon wasn't eating (no big deal I thought, they probably just didn't see him eat and he had some nice new exciting wax moths). I was also told the crickets died (i didn't get this observation as some were still alive and well in the boxes I left and extra in and there were many extra crickets in a cricket keeper). Then I find out they panicked, went to the reptile shop and bought 2 boxes of large black crickets and put the entire contents of one box in with the chameleon. I immediately removed as many crickets as possible from the cage. There must have been at least 20-30 of them, if not more. I didn't see any bite marks on the chameleon and no harm was done as far as I could tell but I learnt the lesson not to leave other people in charge of my chameleon who don't know what they're doing. They failed to follow my instructions, which were designed to involve minimal time and effort on their behalf while ensuring the safety of the chameleon and they could have contacted me when they were worried about him not eating but in the end the responsibility still lay with me for leaving the chameleon in their care. Next time I am away for more than 1-2 days I will probably leave my chameleon in care of people who have other reptiles (or maybe my local pet shop).
I was away Thursday - Monday (4 nights) in August. I left my ~6 month old chameleon in the same place he usually is (a screen cage in my bedroom) under the supervision of my parents. I layed out groups of ~6 crickets in boxes with various fruit so all my parents would have to do was empty the contents of one the boxes into the chameleon cage each day and fill up my dripper system and mist the cage. I also had a box of pupating wax moths which I put in my chameleon cage and many must have hatched while I was away as few were found when I cleaned out the substate which I still had at the time(the pupating wax moths may have eliminated the need for additional food altogether). I explained all that was required to my parents before I left and believed they understood perfectly. I didn't get a phone call the entire time I was away and assumed the chameleon was doing fine.
I return and was told told my chameleon wasn't eating (no big deal I thought, they probably just didn't see him eat and he had some nice new exciting wax moths). I was also told the crickets died (i didn't get this observation as some were still alive and well in the boxes I left and extra in and there were many extra crickets in a cricket keeper). Then I find out they panicked, went to the reptile shop and bought 2 boxes of large black crickets and put the entire contents of one box in with the chameleon. I immediately removed as many crickets as possible from the cage. There must have been at least 20-30 of them, if not more. I didn't see any bite marks on the chameleon and no harm was done as far as I could tell but I learnt the lesson not to leave other people in charge of my chameleon who don't know what they're doing. They failed to follow my instructions, which were designed to involve minimal time and effort on their behalf while ensuring the safety of the chameleon and they could have contacted me when they were worried about him not eating but in the end the responsibility still lay with me for leaving the chameleon in their care. Next time I am away for more than 1-2 days I will probably leave my chameleon in care of people who have other reptiles (or maybe my local pet shop).
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Im not sure how you make this statement. I dont recall you asking me if I had experience on this topic or if I was just posting some random feelings on the subject. Did you ask anyone else?
Seems to me your statement is merely your opinion.
Just because some people dont agree with you Brock doesnt mean they're necessarily wrong or inexperienced.
Everyones input has some value. We can must draw our own conclusions about which of those opinions we will take to heart, and which we must research more about, and which we should just ignore
summoner12
Avid Member
I think Brock might be stemming his opinion of people speaking from feelings because not many people may have done this sort of thing themselves.
We should have a poll: How long have you left your cham without 'human intervention'?
We should have a poll: How long have you left your cham without 'human intervention'?
laurie
Retired Moderator
My 'betters'?
Damn I knew you would nail me on that I just thought I would try to slide it by you.
Lost Lake Chameleons
New Member
I was being sarcastic.
martyllian
New Member
Holy crap! All that is missing is Chewbacca pounding on the whole thing with a wrench!
Right now it is all a mess on the floor because I haven't purchased all of the bits to make it look nice....... But it does function....
This is the bit that controls the watering... 4 seperate misting 'quadrants' or 'sectors' AKA: four valves that control supply. I run all the melleri on one valve, veileds and panther on another... the third is wired up for misting outside, when I have cages there. The fourth isn't operating... just don't need it yet.
I have a lot of cleaning up to do...... But it does work.
At the moment because I am moving all of this around I am manually plugging in my lights and misting the chams......
summoner12
Avid Member
Holy crap! All that is missing is Chewbacca pounding on the whole thing with a wrench!
lol! so far I haven't had to bang on it. Pretty reliable
