Female looking bloated or swollen

[tarrynh011]

I am glad you mentioned this. The admitting that she can be rather clumsy part alarmed me as well as chameleons are very agile creatures. Only when they develop or begin to develop MBD are they ever clumsy enough where they tend to fall to the ground quite often. Falling every now and then is normal I guess, but quite often is not, so you may want to specify what you mean by clumsy lol. However, from the pics I do not see signs of MBD.

How active is she? Is she still eating well, pooping normally, drinking?

She is very active during the day and moves all over her enclosure, she eats extremely well and has not lost her appetite at all! If anything I think if I gave her more she would eat more. Can't find any poop in the new enclosure, have looked with a torch and have moved a few plants but the enclosure is very dence with all the plants have posted a pic in response to the husbandry form

 

[MissSkittles]

Looks good except temp and humidity are both a bit high. Try to bring temp down to 26 and humidity between 30-50%. Beautiful enclosure!
Her casque has a subtle dip to it...looks like it was probably something from early in her life. Just wanted to make sure though.

 

[tarrynh011]

Looks good except temp and humidity are both a bit high. Try to bring temp down to 26 and humidity between 30-50%. Beautiful enclosure!
Her casque has a subtle dip to it...looks like it was probably something from early in her life. Just wanted to make sure though.

With the new enclosure and all the live plants I have no idea how to bring the humidity levels down ? There is a side mesh on the left as well as on the door and one at the top by the lights.

As for the lights im not 100% happy with the way they are set up and will be changing that very soon, thought the temp should be 27 for female and 28 for male? (That's what my old set up was)

 

[MissSkittles]

With the new enclosure and all the live plants I have no idea how to bring the humidity levels down ? There is a side mesh on the left as well as on the door and one at the top by the lights.

As for the lights im not 100% happy with the way they are set up and will be changing that very soon, thought the temp should be 27 for female and 28 for male? (That's what my old set up was)

You could reduce your misting to 3 times a day...early in the day around lights on, mid day and once around lights off. That’s what all my chams get and they are well hydrated. 28 is ok for a male, but we try to keep our ladies cooler at 26. That plus reduced diet of 3-4 feeders 3 days a week helps slow their egg production and laying.

 

[tarrynh011]

Thanks miss skittles I will change the mister settings as per your suggestion an see if the humidity drops.
I assumed my female is at her juvenile age hence me feeding 8 -10 medium size feeders per day. She eats so well and eats all her crickets im just concerned about reducing it so drastically (cold turkey) over night, can I slowly reduce the feeders so its not such a shock to her? Don't want to poor thing to starve
I also don't understand the supplements / dusting once they get older is it possible to explain to me how you do it?

 

[MissSkittles]

Thanks miss skittles I will change the mister settings as per your suggestion an see if the humidity drops.
I assumed my female is at her juvenile age hence me feeding 8 -10 medium size feeders per day. She eats so well and eats all her crickets im just concerned about reducing it so drastically (cold turkey) over night, can I slowly reduce the feeders so its not such a shock to her? Don't want to poor thing to starve
I also don't understand the supplements / dusting once they get older is it possible to explain to me how you do it?

Absolutely you can reduce her feedings gradually! I’m just a softie, but I think it’s kind of mean to cut them back cold turkey. After she lays her first clutch, feed her very well for 2-3 days and then cut her feedings back to 3-4 feeders 3 days a week (plus occasional treats). I use pupated bsfl for fun flying treats.
The supplement schedule doesn’t change at all. While you’ll eventually be feeding less and less often, you’ll still follow the same supplement regimen. We aren’t really sure what amounts of vitamins & minerals our chameleons need so there aren’t any set dosages that they need to receive. Make sure to feed your feeders well and maybe add some bee pollen to your gutload and all should be good.

 

[tarrynh011]

Hi all, just an update, my babies went to the vet today for the first time ever in their lives and honestly I don't know if it was more stressful for them or me... I'll be honest I'm glad its over and done for now..
So the good news is both my babies are doing well and looking good. The vet gave them both a parasite flush just as a precaution and said that they would need to have one every 6 months, is this accurate?
One thing I noticed after the parasite flush is that my female has been extremely thirsty today. I've never seen either of them drink so much.
I also need to take in feacle samples next week for her to test.
On the whole im quite glad the first vet visit went off well..
My female is also not ready to lay and the vet says she's about 4.5 months - 5 months old now.

 

[Beman]

Hi all, just an update, my babies went to the vet today for the first time ever in their lives and honestly I don't know if it was more stressful for them or me... I'll be honest I'm glad its over and done for now..
So the good news is both my babies are doing well and looking good. The vet gave them both a parasite flush just as a precaution and said that they would need to have one every 6 months, is this accurate?
One thing I noticed after the parasite flush is that my female has been extremely thirsty today. I've never seen either of them drink so much.
I also need to take in feacle samples next week for her to test.
On the whole im quite glad the first vet visit went off well..
My female is also not ready to lay and the vet says she's about 4.5 months - 5 months old now.

Uggg I hate when vets treat without actually having a fecal or reason behind it. Give them lots of access to water. And no you don't give meds without having a fecal to know what parasite or if you even need to treat. I would not allow them to do it again unless a fecal has been done to know what they would even be flushing.. Meds can be hard on their organ function which is why treating without a reason is not a good idea.

What exactly did they give with this parasite flush?

 

[tarrynh011]

Uggg I hate when vets treat without actually having a fecal or reason behind it. Give them lots of access to water. And no you don't give meds without having a fecal to know what parasite or if you even need to treat. I would not allow them to do it again unless a fecal has been done to know what they would even be flushing.. Meds can be hard on their organ function which is why treating without a reason is not a good idea.

What exactly did they give with this parasite flush?

OMG!!!! Really?? I didnt know that
She said to me that because they eat crickets/bugs and insects its good to do a parasite flush every 6 months??
I honestly can't tell you what exactly she gave them, as the invoice only says parasite flush small
As mentioned to you in a previous conversation my male hasn't been eating very much if at all lately so she gave him the parasite flush aswell I also need to give him drops for the next 3 days which will apparently stimulate his appetite again. See attached pic

 

[Beman]

OMG!!!! Really?? I didnt know that
She said to me that because they eat crickets/bugs and insects its good to do a parasite flush every 6 months??
I honestly can't tell you what exactly she gave them, as the invoice only says parasite flush small
As mentioned to you in a previous conversation my male hasn't been eating very much if at all lately so she gave him the parasite flush aswell I also need to give him drops for the next 3 days which will apparently stimulate his appetite again. See attached pic

The problem is that different parasites can require different meds to treat. So without knowing exactly what your treating for this can be medicating for no reason.
That med is also a parasite treatment... See this article that I found on it. It mentions that they also use it to stimulate appetite however there is no evidence of this drug actually doing that. https://www.reptilesmagazine.com/protozoan-parasites-treatment-metronidazole-flagyl/

 

[Flick boy]

Absolutely you can reduce her feedings gradually! I’m just a softie, but I think it’s kind of mean to cut them back cold turkey. After she lays her first clutch, feed her very well for 2-3 days and then cut her feedings back to 3-4 feeders 3 days a week (plus occasional treats). I use pupated bsfl for fun flying treats.
The supplement schedule doesn’t change at all. While you’ll eventually be feeding less and less often, you’ll still follow the same supplement regimen. We aren’t really sure what amounts of vitamins & minerals our chameleons need so there aren’t any set dosages that they need to receive. Make sure to feed your feeders well and maybe add some bee pollen to your gutload and all should be good.

In John courtney smith. Arcadia book Mbd . John does advise to ask the supplement brand what dosage for per species and per weight

 

[tarrynh011]

The problem is that different parasites can require different meds to treat. So without knowing exactly what your treating for this can be medicating for no reason.
That med is also a parasite treatment... See this article that I found on it. It mentions that they also use it to stimulate appetite however there is no evidence of this drug actually doing that. https://www.reptilesmagazine.com/protozoan-parasites-treatment-metronidazole-flagyl/

Oh my gosh Beman what would you suggest that I do? Do I give him his meds tomorrow 2mil per dose (per day) or do I not give it to him?

 

[tarrynh011]

In John courtney smith. Arcadia book Mbd . John does advise to ask the supplement brand what dosage for per species and per weight

I'll go look for this book thanks

 

[Beman]

Oh my gosh Beman what would you suggest that I do? Do I give him his meds tomorrow 2mil per dose (per day) or do I not give it to him?

UGGGG I hate questions like this solely based on the fact that it is not my chameleon. I can however tell you if it were my chameleon I would not treat unless there was a positive fecal that came back. Then based on what parasite was found I would treat using the medication that works for that parasite. I would also have a talk with my vet. Express my concern.

I hope that makes sense... I am not a Vet and my experience is only based on my situations with my boys and things I have dealt with. I do know that some meds do make them feel like crap. It can make a cham have issues even if there were no issues to begin with. Being as how your vet gave them some sort of parasite med today... I would be concerned about giving anything else without a positive fecal or at least knowing their thought process on it... I know flagyl (this is the med they gave for appitite) can be used for multiple parasites but that is the extent of my knowledge.

But in any case not knowing what the parasite is means you don't know what your fighting either. Different parasites have different cleaning requirements to make sure they do not reinfect themselves. Because the eggs called oocysts come out in the fecal. So if they lick off a branch or leaf where those oocysts still are they reinfect themselves starting the life cycle all over again.

Some parasites are not dangerous in low levels. For example my vet will not treat for pinworms if there is a low parasite load. She will just keep an eye on it with a follow fecal 3 months later. Since it can be harmless in low levels she thinks the risk of meds on their organs is worse especially when they can easily get parasites like this from feeders. Unless there is a reason to treat such as reduced appetite or anything out of the normal.

 

[tarrynh011]

UGGGG I hate questions like this solely based on the fact that it is not my chameleon. I can however tell you if it were my chameleon I would not treat unless there was a positive fecal that came back. Then based on what parasite was found I would treat using the medication that works for that parasite. I would also have a talk with my vet. Express my concern.

I hope that makes sense... I am not a Vet and my experience is only based on my situations with my boys and things I have dealt with. I do know that some meds do make them feel like crap. It can make a cham have issues even if there were no issues to begin with. Being as how your vet gave them some sort of parasite med today... I would be concerned about giving anything else without a positive fecal or at least knowing their thought process on it... I know flagyl (this is the med they gave for appitite) can be used for multiple parasites but that is the extent of my knowledge.

But in any case not knowing what the parasite is means you don't know what your fighting either. Different parasites have different cleaning requirements to make sure they do not reinfect themselves. Because the eggs called oocysts come out in the fecal. So if they lick off a branch or leaf where those oocysts still are they reinfect themselves starting the life cycle all over again.

Some parasites are not dangerous in low levels. For example my vet will not treat for pinworms if there is a low parasite load. She will just keep an eye on it with a follow fecal 3 months later. Since it can be harmless in low levels she thinks the risk of meds on their organs is worse especially when they can easily get parasites like this from feeders. Unless there is a reason to treat such as reduced appetite or anything out of the normal.

Yes this makes alot of sence and based on what you are saying i fully fully agree!!
For the first time vet visit I honestly didn't know what to expect and for the next one I will be more prepared.
How offten would you recommend a fecal test being done, as and when there is an issue or on a more regular basis ?

 

[Pickle-cham]

Yes this makes alot of sence and based on what you are saying i fully fully agree!!
For the first time vet visit I honestly didn't know what to expect and for the next one I will be more prepared.
How offten would you recommend a fecal test being done, as and when there is an issue or on a more regular basis ?

6 months for fecal only more regular after a positive result and treatment or if you or vet suspect a parasite could be causing illness.

 

[Beman]

Yes this makes alot of sence and based on what you are saying i fully fully agree!!
For the first time vet visit I honestly didn't know what to expect and for the next one I will be more prepared.
How offten would you recommend a fecal test being done, as and when there is an issue or on a more regular basis ?

I do them every 6 months and then once a year when they get their check ups I take one in. But I also do one anytime I get a new cham as well. If there are any signs of issues then I get one done as well.

 

[tarrynh011]

I do them every 6 months and then once a year when they get their check ups I take one in. But I also do one anytime I get a new cham as well. If there are any signs of issues then I get one done as well.

Thanks Beman I will follow suite.
This will not happen again thats for sure

 

[Beman]

Thanks Beman I will follow suite.
This will not happen again thats for sure

Try not to beat yourself up. It is really hard when your new... When you do not know what to expect. Talk to your vet and let them know your concerns. Like I said I am not a Vet. This is just what I have learned with my 3 and within the forum the last 2 years.

 

[tarrynh011]

Try not to beat yourself up. It is really hard when your new... When you do not know what to expect. Talk to your vet and let them know your concerns. Like I said I am not a Vet. This is just what I have learned with my 3 and within the forum the last 2 years.

Yeah I guess your right, I only want the best for my two, and thinking a vet would know her stuff well..... it won't happen again thats for sure. On that note I didnt give him his 3 day course of drops.. after everything I read I just decided it was a no!
My male still isn't eating so it is a concern (well I havent seen him eat in a really long time now) have even offered supperworms and he still turns his nose up at them. He lies practically on his feeder cup and watches the crickets but dosent do anything after that its almost like the crickets, dubias and supers are his friends now so he can't eat them...
I also had the guy who built my viv have a look at him and he says that Leon is in good condition and he can't see any weight loss so he says I should calm down its just his hormones.