Eyes Bulging.

[xeonic]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? - Furcifer Pardalis, Male, approximately 3 Years 6 Months. 1 Year in my care.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? - Two or Three times a month.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? - 90% Super Worms as he refuses most feeder. Silk and Hornworms when he will take them.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? - Repashy Calcium Plus, Supervite, and Vitamin A. rotating with a just regular calcium in between. Once a week I dust one feeder with a probiotic to aid digestion.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? - I use a drip system which I run in the morning, afternoon and before 9 Pm, which drips into a container to collect at bottom with a small hole big enough for drops to get into the container. Using a monsoon 400 to mist differently each day of the week, Skipping one day. I see my Chameleon drink every day.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Droppings are brown with white urate on end, Tested 6 or 7 Months ago which were negative. Chameleons only poops once a week some times every Two weeks.
History - Went to Two different vet's 6 or 7 months ago for a possible respiratory infection which was never diagnosed properly. Was given Baytril and another anibiotoc of which I forget the name to treat possible respiratory infection, No change to chameleon was noticed, Slow Bowel movements were noticed after completion of Baytril.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? - Glass Screen Combo 4 foot x 4 foot, mostly cage door left open.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? - Using one 48 Inch Linear Tube Fluorescent Bulb 6500k for plants, and one 48 Inch reptisun 5.0 Linear Tube Flourescent. Two Coil Flourescent light bulbs at bottom of cage through glass angled down to give light to plants at bottom of cage as upper foliage blocks all light to bottom of cage. one 60W incandescent bulb used for basking. 12 hour schedule daily.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? - 21 to 22 Celsius ambient temperature day and night. Measured with Two digital thermometers.
Humidity - anywhere from 50 to 70% humidity, which varies daily due to misting schedule as different each day.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?- Bromeliads, Lots of Pothos, One bottle Palm, one Schefflera.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? - in Living room close to living room window, door and heater vent, three feet off of floor.
Location - Canada

Current Problem - Does anyone know what causes Temporary Eye Bulge?
About 6 or 7Pm randomly my Panther Chameleon Snickers Eyes will bulge and he will just sit there till 9Pm when his lights shut off, In the morning his eyes will look normal again and he will be back to his normal self. This has happened 3 or 4 times. In the past when this has happened he will just blink it away, Some times he will sit under foliage to shade himself. I think this could be caused by lighting. any thoughts?

 

[kinyonga]

Wondering if something in your lighting is affecting him since you said in the morning the eyes are normal???

 

[Elizadolots]

Do you have specs on the plant bulb?

 

[squeekz1992]

He needs a better feeder than superworms. Not poopoing for 1-2 weeks at a time is a red flag for me. I'm on my tablet right now, so giving better info will have to wait till morning, or maybe another member will help you out sooner..

 

[ChameleonMom]

Hmmmm...when reviewing your lighting set-up, I am concerned it is A LOT of lighting in the enclosure. You have two florescent tubes up top, a basking bulb AND two coil florescents at the bottom?? That just screams TOO MUCH LIGHT...!!

I realise you are trying promote plant health/growth as well as keep your cham happy with the foliage, but perhaps you could turn off the bottom flourescents for 2 - 3 days and see if there is a change in your guys' eye bulge. Let us know what happens!!

 

[Dr O]

i've been asked to chime in—

i do agree that there is a lot of light directed at your cage in general, however you don't mention any squinting or eyes shut which is what chams will do if they are getting too much radiation exposure. however again, you really don't have that much radiation exposure since everything else is either being filtered by the glass or isn't a ultraviolet lamp. I confess I've never been broached with a patient who just had too much ambient light, but I suspect that it would still cause more squinting and shut eyes than anything that you described. so I doubt that's the issue, although its easy enough to test by shutting down some lights for a few days.

otherwise, chams can and do bulge their eyes when cleaning them, particularly if there's an irritant in the eye. he seems to do it for a prolonged period, but it still makes me think he may have some dirt/crud/whatever under his lid. the fact that it can return to normal is VERY good, since if he couldn't we would almost definitely be talking about an abscess behind the eye which would involve surgery for sure.

my suggestion besides an obvious vet visit to have the eye properly looked at is do no harm but see if it helps to get some sterile saline sold in the contact lens department and flush his eye vigorously by squirting it at/into the turret hole twice daily. following up with some Genteal ointment for severe dry eye will help keep a large lubricating layer in there, which can help flush something out. at that point if it's worsening or you're still not having success, i've got nothing else than let a good vet take a look.

keep us updated on what you decide to do, please. and good luck!

dr o—

 

[Dr O]

just some add on thoughts—

-check the roof of his mouth briefly. if there's an infection there, that is the cause. but I doubt that he has that.

-think hard about any sprays/disinfectants/deodorizers/ozone machines in the room, anything at all that can be linked to eye irritation. you have got to think about everything. do you apply anti-perspirant spray near his cage everyday, any other animals in the room or dust from feeder supples? and so on......

 

[SarahcoadunatioZac]

I agree with Squeekz on the food issue. Basically all worms? What do you gutload with? Don't give in to hunger strikes, they wont starve themselves.

 

[xeonic]

I think the problem is caused by too much lighting. I have his 60W bulb is right beside his reptisun 5.0 UVB tube. Last night when I noticed the eye bulge I shut off all the lights except his 60W basking light, and the bulging went away. I have moved his 60W basking bulb away from his reptisun 5.0 tube and created him a basking spot out of any other direct UVB lighting.

As for the Chameleon eating only superworms I'll make another attempt at nothing but crickets to get him off the super worms. The problem where he only poops only once for as long as two weeks has been an issue for 6 to 7 months since the use of Baytril. At this time he was still feeding on crickets, Silkworms, and hornworms. I dont think this is caused by impacting from the superworms. Basically I'm saying he had this issue with all feeders. I have been monitering his weight and he is gaining weight, even more so since I started using the probiotic's. With that said I'll concentrate on the eye problems first as he has been fine with Superworms for quite some time.

DR O what am I looking for on the roof of his mouth? Im guessing some type of dark discoleration, like mouth rot? Also he has been squinting his eyes, I should have mentioned that.

sprays/disinfectants/deodorizers/ozone machines in the room. None of the above. And anti-persprants are useed in the bathroom. My wife does use some type of soap to wash the floors, Though it's not done that often.

 

[squeekz1992]

The fact that he has been on Baytril makes it even more important to make the changes now. He will not starve himself. Basically hunger striking when coming off of superworms is like a child throwing a fit until the parents give in. As the parent, you can't give in. I am not a vet, but I can tell you without a doubt the superworms are, if not causing, adding to his impaction problem. I can't tell you what to do, only give you advice, so here is my two cents. Get rid of the superworms. He will not be able to fight this eye problem if it is, in fact, an infection, if he is not properly fed.

 

[xeonic]

The fact that he has been on Baytril makes it even more important to make the changes now. He will not starve himself. Basically hunger striking when coming off of superworms is like a child throwing a fit until the parents give in. As the parent, you can't give in. I am not a vet, but I can tell you without a doubt the superworms are, if not causing, adding to his impaction problem. I can't tell you what to do, only give you advice, so here is my two cents. Get rid of the superworms. He will not be able to fight this eye problem if it is, in fact, an infection, if he is not properly fed.

Thanks for the advice. one stress at a time, Though some sustenance is better then none which is what will happen during the hunger strike. He can't fight the infection with no intake, If it is an infection.

 

[Dr O]

DR O what am I looking for on the roof of his mouth? Im guessing some type of dark discoleration, like mouth rot? Also he has been squinting his eyes, I should have mentioned that.

I'm talking of infection which would make the roof of his mouth look like rotten cottage cheese. again, I don't expect it to be there, but it's part of the exam of problem-causing areas for the eyes.

but now that you have mentioned the squinting, I put virtually all odds at too much light exposure. don't go dark, just go standard and it should resolve almost immediately.

of course a 90% superworm diet is not great and I think you know that. but i definitely agree that the eye battle is primary by a long shot. if he can't see and his eyes get worse, then he won't be eating anything, and that would not be good.

as for the Baytril, I don't see any reason why it should have had any long-term effect on GI motility other than the days to weeks after which is typical for most systemic antibiotics, because they just don't do that. but certainly the amount of chitin in this diet is causing some degree of his chronic constipation, and probably the majority of it. I can't answer what happened way back when when it all started, and I too know the frustration of one of my chams turning up his nose at virtually everything else. but patience and diversity have helped and i do have him eating most things after a good 2 year battle. fwiw, 2 things I did which helped dramatically—when he was being stubborn and only eating worms he was just looking slightly deteriorated overall. I added Repashy Superload to the superworm diet and the results on his end were fantastic and very quick. the supers go crazy for the stuff. and I also had changed his cage from a simple drip system to being with the rest of my gang in a different cage and 5x daily 4 minute automatic misting/dripping. the amount of stool that he began to put out relative to the past years in his other cage was virtually shocking. he too went from dry little turds every week or so to voluminous poops every other day. I watch him now, and he just always takes in that water when it's raining in his cage. granted, his diet is much more broad nowadays (although he loves super day), but in terms of chronic impaction maybe this gives you some ideas.

o—

 

[djfishygillz]

I would suggest a very natural gutload for all feeders. Just dark greens and fresh fruit for gutloads to help cleanse out whatever toxins/infection he has in him.

I would also go with just crickets as the main source as they will eat the fruit and greens better than other feeders.


Good luck

 

[xeonic]

Well when I first purchased my Chameleon he had issues pooping, Then I made progress and he began to poop almost daily. Dr O you know the History already with the RI infection, it ended with Baytril where his poops became one to Two weeks apart. At which point I was feeding him crickets, Silkworms, Hornworms and butterworms, I avoided Superworms. I was also gutloading the crickets with Sandrachameleons dry gutload which she sent me quite a bit of, and all was good except his poops never returned to normal. The chameleon went on a hunger strike and would not eat, so I gave him Superworms as he would take them, the rest is History, he's hooked like cocaine.
I'll work on Chameleon rehab after I resolve the problem with his eyes, thank you all for the advice.

 

[ataraxia]

Have you checked the eye itself to see if there is any abnormalities, particularly the pupil shape and any clouding?

Its just strange he is buldging his eye versus closing them. If you believe it is the lights. Linear tube style bulbs can come from the factory defective. Id start with the 5.0 that is over the top personally. Go day by day turning off a different light to pin point which one could be causing him this issue.

Turrets abnormally buldging is typically a sign of infection. Dr.O's suggestion of looking in the mouth would be something i would do immediately. If his mouth looks clear and the light process of elimination doesnt solve this. I would look into finding a good vet to run some test's of the fluid in the turret or blood work.

In the meantime give your kid lots of showers and keep your humidity within range.

 

[xeonic]

Actually I did take close up pictures of his right side turret. Possibly some uvb damage to the iris as there is a ring around the lense. Which is another reason I think the chameleons basking spot was too close to the uvb tube.

 

[ataraxia]

The eye looks normal to me but maybe one of the vets can confirm.

Looking at your first pictures posted, are his lobes always like that? They look abnormally swollen. Can you take pictures of the full body of the chameleon?

 

[Dr O]

nothing in the photographs cause me any concern, but realize that we look inside the eye and the back retinal wall as well.

based on the full history, i still think it’s too much light/UV exposure. as i said, that should clear up very quickly and dramatically with you changing the setup. in fact, i wouldn’t even use any meds at this point since you wouldn’t know what’s working, and i really think just the lighting needs some fixing.

regarding the superworm diet, i did say that i added Superload to my feeder food. of course all the veggies and good stuff should be consistent, but i stand by the tremendous increase in activity/colors/energy that my superworm eater showed when i added in the Superload. but it is not 100% of the feeder diet.

 

[xeonic]

Well I got home just now and his eyes aren't swollen. And he isn't pouting under foliage as if he is escaping the light. I also forgot to mention. He pouts under foliage some times when his eyes swell and will keep one eye shut, but opens it for a short time or if he wants to focus on something. So far the only change was relocation of his basking spot away from direct uvb lighting. He spends allot of time under his basking spot so he was constantly under the uvb lighting. But as I said his eyes will bulge randomly. I'll keep any eye on him and see what happens.

Also when my wife gets home I will look in his mouth at the roof for the cottage cheese looking infection, and see if I can get a picture also.

Ataraxia here is the full body image as best I could do. Yes his eyes always look like that unless they are bulging.

 

[ChameleonMom]

I am glad to hear you've seen some improvement with moving the basking bulb. He's a handsome little fella. Now, get that hunger strike handled with some different feeders and he'll be good as new! Continued good luck!!