Diatomaceous Earth vs Panacur/Flag. as natural Dewormer

[PalofromSD]

From past experience I understand that most hobbist and breeders use either Panacur, flagynl or Ivermectin. I apologize for the mispellings.

I have read and used DE with good success when I raised various tropical avian species as a dewormer and parasite control. Not to sound to "granola" but its all natural and is another great source of calcium.

I think I would dust only the crickets I would feed at the time. Ideally hand feeding would work best but free ranging the crickets would work too. The only draw back would be to dosing ratios.

Has anyone tried using it with Chameleons?

 

[laurie]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I must have missed your first post. You will find lots of helpful people here with lots of knowledge.


I can not answer about the Diatomaceous Earth, but I will be very interested to know what you find out. In my experience Ivermectin, that crap killed my chameleon. It will never even be allowed in my house let alone near my chameleons. I have use panacur with no problem - it works.

 

[kinyonga]

Are you going to get a fecal done to see what (if any) parasites your chameleon has...or do you just intend to shotgun it and treat it regardless?

 

[Syn]

I have so much of that stuff around my room because we are (still) having a bed bug problem everything in my house should be dewormed..

Let me know what you find out, whether you decide to use DE or otherwise.

EDIT: let me note that I don't let it fly around cages and what not..

 

[JackP308]

That stuff is killer. works good in soils for natural insecticide, I wouldnt use that stuff on my chameleon.

 

[pssh]

Wouldn't that tear up their mouths and intestines? I mean, if it does that to peoples mouths and noses, why wouldn't it with the lizards?

 

[sagemoon2004]

Not sure about usage in chams, but diat. earth is def used on chickens, with goats, on cats and dogs for fleas, in gardens, around the house perimeter. I even have customers who do use it in the house on the carpet. It is naturally mined, but I have always thought there should be a concern about the effect on lungs in all animals, and especially small ones...

 

[jojackson]

The use of silica as a wormer is dodgy at best, it relies on mechanical function (cutting up parasites) and has not been proven effective. Its nature makes it a respiratory threat both to you and anything else breathing it in, for the same reason.
Calcium content will be minimal. dosage will be largely irrelevant since there is no chemical action.
polish your pots and pans with it, and see your vet for fecel diagnostic and appropriate treatment for your lizard.

P.s Ivermectin is lethal for some species, particularly noted in chelonians.

 

[PalofromSD]

Those are all very good points. I am not an expert on DE and was hoping someone here had given it a try. I would have thought someone has tried using it. If not I may have to be the first. I have a client who's a Vet that might be interested in helping me with my project. Fecal exams would be vital to produce any real conclusive results so I will consult with him about my potential experiment.

Regarding, the negative effects on Chameleons versus the parasites in question. I raised hookbills and softbills with good results. I never noticed negative side effects on the animals I used it on. Personally, I used it on my avians for years. On the advice from a long time soft bill breeder, I used it mainly to control mites, lice but also mixed it in their dry foods when they were weaning babies to manage worms. I assume that DE's composition is at such microscopic levels that its effects are minimal on anything larger than insects and parasites. But you raise a valid point!

We all know that Panacur, Flaginyl and Ivermectin work at killing things. It just seems like there could be better less toxic way to the process. I am not one to reinvent the wheel. I personally am not big on taking medications because of the potential short and long term side effects associated with them. I guess I am carrying that over to my animals too.

Thanks for all the feedback and comments!

 

[lisa h]

FWIW, the stuff that's used outside, in gardens, etc., is different from the D.E. given to animals. I haven't had the need to use it, but I know many people who have used it for their dogs with great success.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

I use the food grade stuff to keep ants out of my big outdoor walk-in enclosures. I just make a line of it around the outside of cage. Ants won't cross it, or dry out and die trying.

 

[Syn]

Food grade DE does not contain silica (at least not in "harmful" amounts).

 

[jojackson]

Actually it is silica syn, albeit amorphous silica, about 79%. Its not harmful excepting when inhaled, due its structure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_dioxide

http://www.diatomitecanada.com/the-silica-connection-diatomaceous-earth.htm

 

[Syn]

Sorry, you are right, I am thinking silica vs. amorphous. Regardless silica is poorly absorbed in the first place, and usually only is absorbed in a dissolved state from what I've read.

"No, silica is poorly absorbed to begin with, and it only absorbs in a dissolved form called orthosilicic acid. So it does not enter the bloodstream as a powder."

EDIT:I need to go lay down, I am reading things all kinds of weird today. I quit.

 

[ttaylor]

I was just going to ask... do you mean the same stuff that I have a 5 lb bag on the garage for soaking up spilled oil?

 

[Yak]

i'd like to revive this old post in search of anyone finding if its safe for chameleons.

 

[Mike Fisher]

i'd like to revive this old post in search of anyone finding if its safe for chameleons.

I'd be concerned about its dessicating effect causing impaction. Ironically, I keep substrate in my enclosures, and even I would not purposely feed DE to my chameleons.

 

[Yak]

I'd be concerned about its dessicating effect causing impaction. Ironically, I keep substrate in my enclosures, and even I would not purposely feed DE to my chameleons.

Hello Mike,
I trust your opinion.
I bought it but I will use it for other projects around the house.

Thanks again.