Crazy Easter eggs?

[fleetwoodchams]

My male Ki ( from crazyeyeschams ) and my female Glinda ( from Hunter lineage FLchams ) are mated. She was full of eggs you could see just by her size.
Laying bin has about 6" of organic playsand/ soil mix. I have kept it damp but not wet.
I also have a small plant growing in it and covered the top with faux vines to give privacy. Covered her cage door as well so she would not be distracted.

She had dug about 4 or 5 test holes over the past 1.5 weeks so I knew she was close. Never digging all the way to the bottom however.
Well since yesterday she has been laying but not in the bin. She has been just sitting in the plant and dropping eggs everywhere.
It has been a reptile Easter egg hunt as I don't want them to dry out. I have immediately retrieved any that I saw and put them in a container with moist hatchrite substrate. I have attached the photo of the eggs. I am sure most are fine. They are nice and white and still moist when I got them. A few had a dent so I don't know if that means they will not survive.
Anyway the question is

Why did she choose not to use this laying bin?
Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Olimpia]

What is her laying bin like?

Usually females respond best to an opaque container (not clear) that is more like 10-12" deep with laying medium. Perhaps she found it too shallow?

I had one female panther that preferred to lay her eggs in her plant pots (usually ripping up all the roots in the process), regardless of what her laying bin looked like. But she would make a tunnel in a pothos or umbrella plant and lay her eggs there, I haven't had a pet female just drop them.

I would palpate her gently to see if you can't feel any more eggs. If she's just dropping them it's a lot harder to tell if she's done or not, she could be holding onto one or two more which could cause problems. Go over her abdomen with a finger on each side and feel for hard lumps, or maybe get an x-ray done if you're unsure of what you feel.

 

[NHenn]

I have had this happen a ton with carpets as they are very difficult to get them to actually dig and lay, they prefer to just aerial bomb. But with panthers, no they have always dug.

I would have to make the assumption that she didn't like her laying bin or the mixture wasn't to her liking. If she dug that many tests holes that usually means she didn't like each one and start another one to find a better spot. Was you soil too wet or too dry, that could have been the reason. If she hit wet spots near the bottom she could have decided to not lay there as it would in turn have drown her eggs.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

I have had this happen a ton with carpets as they are very difficult to get them to actually dig and lay, they prefer to just aerial bomb. But with panthers, no they have always dug.

I would have to make the assumption that she didn't like her laying bin or the mixture wasn't to her liking. If she dug that many tests holes that usually means she didn't like each one and start another one to find a better spot. Was you soil too wet or too dry, that could have been the reason. If she hit wet spots near the bottom she could have decided to not lay there as it would in turn have drown her eggs.

Thanks so much guys.

Olympia, I will take your today and try to feel if there are any more eggs. I don't want her to go egg bound.
NH, I think you both are right since she did dig several test holes but never laid in them. Perhaps too shallow as Olympia stated.

Really appreciate the insight!

 

[fleetwoodchams]

What is her laying bin like?

Usually females respond best to an opaque container (not clear) that is more like 10-12" deep with laying medium. Perhaps she found it too shallow?

I had one female panther that preferred to lay her eggs in her plant pots (usually ripping up all the roots in the process), regardless of what her laying bin looked like. But she would make a tunnel in a pothos or umbrella plant and lay her eggs there, I haven't had a pet female just drop them.

I would palpate her gently to see if you can't feel any more eggs. If she's just dropping them it's a lot harder to tell if she's done or not, she could be holding onto one or two more which could cause problems. Go over her abdomen with a finger on each side and feel for hard lumps, or maybe get an x-ray done if you're unsure of what you feel.

Thanks Olympia.
Tried to multi-quote but it didn't work.
Will take the advise on more eggs. As she is a really nice golden female from the Hunter line. I know she will make great chams and I want to make sure she is safe.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

What is her laying bin like?

Usually females respond best to an opaque container (not clear) that is more like 10-12" deep with laying medium. Perhaps she found it too shallow?

I had one female panther that preferred to lay her eggs in her plant pots (usually ripping up all the roots in the process), regardless of what her laying bin looked like. But she would make a tunnel in a pothos or umbrella plant and lay her eggs there, I haven't had a pet female just drop them.

I would palpate her gently to see if you can't feel any more eggs. If she's just dropping them it's a lot harder to tell if she's done or not, she could be holding onto one or two more which could cause problems. Go over her abdomen with a finger on each side and feel for hard lumps, or maybe get an x-ray done if you're unsure of what you feel.

Didn't feel anymore eggs. Carefully worked my way across her lower abdomen and then back. I think she has laid them all. 20 if all are viable.
Thanks!
Hey do you know if an egg has a dent will it still survive?
I will try to take a photo of what I am speaking of. Shell is not cracked or open just slightly dented.


Update: I went back to look at the eggs now nestled in the substrate container. the two eggs that had those "dents" don't anymore. I couldn't find any, so I assume once they got moisture they went away. A good sign.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

I have had this happen a ton with carpets as they are very difficult to get them to actually dig and lay, they prefer to just aerial bomb. But with panthers, no they have always dug.

I would have to make the assumption that she didn't like her laying bin or the mixture wasn't to her liking. If she dug that many tests holes that usually means she didn't like each one and start another one to find a better spot. Was you soil too wet or too dry, that could have been the reason. If she hit wet spots near the bottom she could have decided to not lay there as it would in turn have drown her eggs.

"aerial bomb" lol
Is that the new term?
So when your carpets laid in this manner did any of the eggs dry out because of not being under soil?
As you can see I think I got them in time. None looked shriveled before I moved them to the substrate container.
I guess the question is what would be a sign of being too dry to survive.

 

[bobcochran]

Bomber babe

I've had a female that would just bomb her eggs-not much fun. I collected them and put them in egg substrate, if they didn't get too dried out they would
hatch even the slightly dented ones. I found if the dented ones became normally shaped within a day they would hatch if fertilized.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

I've had a female that would just bomb her eggs-not much fun. I collected them and put them in egg substrate, if they didn't get too dried out they would
hatch even the slightly dented ones. I found if the dented ones became normally shaped within a day they would hatch if fertilized.

Thanks Bob,

I did go back to take that photo of the dented eggs, but they had no dents. I think the moisture from the substrate helped fix this.
I appreciate you letting me know.

Now I have the long wait : )

 

[NHenn]

"aerial bomb" lol
Is that the new term?
So when your carpets laid in this manner did any of the eggs dry out because of not being under soil?
As you can see I think I got them in time. None looked shriveled before I moved them to the substrate container.
I guess the question is what would be a sign of being too dry to survive.

Hahaha I don't know if it is new that is just want I call it as they love to hit up in the branches and just drop the eggs below lol.

I did have a few that got pretty dry as I didn't catch them right away. They started to dent but after a few days in the vermiculite they popped back up and have been doing well ever since.

An egg can dent in pretty far and still be able to come back if placed in the right moisture content. I would guess that your eggs will be fine especially if they came back that quick.

It might not have been prefect laying but it will all work out. Congratulations on your 20 eggs!

 

[fleetwoodchams]

Hahaha I don't know if it is new that is just want I call it as they love to hit up in the branches and just drop the eggs below lol.

I did have a few that got pretty dry as I didn't catch them right away. They started to dent but after a few days in the vermiculite they popped back up and have been doing well ever since.

An egg can dent in pretty far and still be able to come back if placed in the right moisture content. I would guess that your eggs will be fine especially if they came back that quick.

It might not have been prefect laying but it will all work out. Congratulations on your 20 eggs!

Thanks NHenn, I'm excited. : )

Hey check out the thread I just bumped about incubation and see what you think of the Flux method. https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-best-incubator-51504/
I know you breed often. Is this what you do?

 

[NHenn]

Yes and no. I've actually been playing around a little with different methods so we will see what the results are. For the most part though I diapause my eggs.

I'm actually just starting to work on my custom incubator so I can have some more regulations on temperatures as well as provide a better day/night temperature drop. It is still a controlled environment but I try to somewhat simulate natural temperature changes and seasons.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

Yes and no. I've actually been playing around a little with different methods so we will see what the results are. For the most part though I diapause my eggs.

I'm actually just starting to work on my custom incubator so I can have some more regulations on temperatures as well as provide a better day/night temperature drop. It is still a controlled environment but I try to somewhat simulate natural temperature changes and seasons.

Funny you mentioned diapause since I was just taking the time to go back and read some older posts on incubation temps.
Seems the ave. incubation temps for pardalis are around 75degrees F however some have said that a 3 month diapause of temps as low as 60 degrees F injected shortly after the eggs are laid has been shown to decrease gestation time. What do you think about this including the temps mentioned? Also not having air holes in the containers ( see fluxlizard thread mentioned above) Would yield a 100 % humidity range ?
By the way I use hatchrite as my medium.

To vary temps or not to vary. That is the question.