Collection of chameleon care questions (Elliot's chameleon))

[Ferrah88]

I just got my first ever chameleon on Sunday (I have always wanted one!) and I have a couple of questions to make sure I'm taking proper care of him/her. He's almost 3 months old, and very tiny still!

Girl or boy?
When picking my chameleon out from the 7 that were available, I did want to get a male. The previous owner is a colleague from work, and I was able to take any, but he did want to keep one female for himself. I was the first to choose, and I kinda wanted a male for my first anyways, getting a female eventually so he has a friend! (Elliot's are fairly small chameleons, and can be kept together easier, with of course care from the owners to make sure they tolerate each other) The problem is, I have no idea if he really is a he.. or if he's actually a she. If there's anyone out there that has any experience with Elliot's chameleons, or similar hard-to-sex chameleons, any input would be greatly appreciated!


Glass terrarium questions
Looking for someone who also uses glass terrariums to answer a couple of questions. I would have gotten a full net terrarium for my little guy, but that is out of the question where I live. Our house gets too cold in the winter, and we have cats, which I don't trust around a full netting terrarium. They don't bother the chameleon at all, but I would be afraid that they try and climb the net terrarium. I do plan on getting a full net one for outside in the summer, when the weather is nice The glass terrarium we have right now is full mesh at the top, and on the left side, roughly 1/3 of the glass is actually a metallic mesh for airflow, near the bottom. I also leave the terrarium door open when I'm home (And watching of course) and monitor the temperatures to make sure it doesn't get too cold (I keep the average temperature between 22°C and 24°C during the day). How the questions I have are:
Is this enough airflow for my chameleon?
Is there anything I should monitor while using a glass terrarium?


Generic enclosure questions
My chameleon likes to walk upside down on the top mesh, and I'm afraid he will walk under the basking light. Is there anything I can do about this? Moving the light further away likely won't help much...
Is there such thing as too much foliage?
How can I get my humidity above 50, maximum 60%? I have a glass terrarium and despite frequent spraying (3x a day for about a minute each time, waiting for stuff to dry before doing it again) I can't seem to keep the humidity up. Or is 50-60% fine?


Feeding
Right now I have been feeding him/her small house crickets, flies and fruit flies. He eats all of them well, and at the moment anything else seems too big for him. At the pet store, I was only able to find crickets, flies, fruit flies, roaches, waxworms, some big beetle grubs(I forget what they were called, but would be too big for him even when he's an adult), grasshoppers and I believe that was it...
Are my 3 food choices good for now, or should I consider also trying to get some really tiny grasshoppers?
Does anyone know if there's a place that ships silkworms to Germany? I heard those are good, and would love to feed them to my cham.
For a 3 month old Elliot's chameleon, how often should I dust food with Calcium (with D§ and without) and the multivitamins? When should I down the intake?


Gutloading prey
What are some easy to get gutload foods for my chams food? (I was thinking carrots for wet, and some cricket food from the petstore for dry, ans I'm not sure if we can get most of the recommended stuff)
Is a variety of food crucial for gutloading?


Elliot's chameleon breeder in Europe...
Is there one on these forums? Once I get things down with my first, I will certainly want to get a second!



And of course some pictures of him/her I do hope he looks healthy! The second picture was taken yesterday after he finished basking just after eating. The first one was taken the day after we got him. (I know I keep calling him/her he... but I'm under the impression that he is a he!)

 

[nightanole]

Boy

Id put glass tank on side if you can for more air flow and i higher tank. If cham is walking on screen and you are worried about burns, place the lamp at a 45 degree angle to the screen

50-60% humidity is fine with misting, just make sure the tank dries out inbetween mistings.

Your food choices are good, and sounds like you got a real good pet shop. Remember he will be doubling in size each month for the next couple of months, so in 60 days he will be able to eat the small version of most of the pet shop feeders.

Some one can chime in on the faq for dry and wet gut load, but for flies you can gut load with bee pollen.

 

[mcbdz]

Hello and welcome to the forums. What a cutie you have . I did find this old thread with links to info.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/elliots-chameleon-c-t-ellioti-58542/
http://web.archive.org/web/20090617073716/http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/chellioti.html
And maybe PM some of the members in there that have/had them for any new info.

 

[Trace]

WOW! I haven’t seen Trioceros ellioti in forever! It’s nice to see.

Anyways you’ve got a male and you tell by the bump right after the vent on his tail. That’s called the hemipenal bulge and that’s were the males’ sex organs are. As you’ve mentioned they can live communally but definitely keep a close eye on a pair in the same cage if you take the plunge. The girls can get very testy when gravid so they should be separated from the males once they are. The males will constantly pursue females to mate so it’s was easier for me to keep them in separate cages.

Is this enough airflow for my chameleon?
Is there anything I should monitor while using a glass terrarium?

The ellioti come from areas that have high humidity and rainfall and these need to be provided for optimal health. I kept my ellioti with a basking temp of no higher than 25C (ambient was 22 or lower) and a humidity level between 70-100% depending on time of day and/or season. You can tell if the temps are too high as they pale out and hide lower in the cage. Continuous high temperatures can be fatal. The ellioti can certainly take temperature drops at night down into the teens so you don’t need a ceramic heater or room heater for them. It’s completely natural for them. I kept mine in screen cages but there are people who use glass caging with no difficulty.

My chameleon likes to walk upside down on the top mesh, and I'm afraid he will walk under the basking light. Is there anything I can do about this? Moving the light further away likely won't help much...

Most chameleons tend to do that once introduced to a new cage but stop after they start to settle in. Obviously watch that he can’t burn himself during this transition but it sounds like normal behaviours to me.

Is there such thing as too much foliage?

No. The Elliots aren’t ridiculously shy but aren’t super friendly either so providing ample cover gives them places to hide, feel comfortable and settle

How can I get my humidity above 50, maximum 60%? I have a glass terrarium and despite frequent spraying (3x a day for about a minute each time, waiting for stuff to dry before doing it again) I can't seem to keep the humidity up. Or is 50-60% fine?

See above for humidity levels. You can run a humidifier into the cage to bump up the levels a bit or spray a bit longer. Again the ellioti come from areas that get marked rainy seasons once or twice a year. Of course drainage of the excess water becomes a problem when glass cages are used which is why I preferred screen. There must be threads on here on how to deal with drainage in a Exo-Terra. If not ask!

Are my 3 food choices good for now, or should I consider also trying to get some really tiny grasshoppers?

Those are excellent choices. Mine liked crickets, roaches and particularly flies. I had no success in getting the elliots or any of the closely related species to eat things like silkworms or hornworms and the like. Perhaps they don’t recognize any soft bodied worms as prey. Maybe it was just me. Obviously the more different insect options you can by or culture the better off your chameleon will be but since he is still young the combo you have is suitable. The ellioti aren’t fussy eaters and don’t generally pig out but be aware that they can get overweight.

For a 3 month old Elliot's chameleon, how often should I dust food with Calcium (with D§ and without) and the multivitamins? When should I down the intake?

I rely more on proper gutloading than supplementation with the montane chameleons. I also don’t use the same supplements touted by most people on here. If you are gutloading properly err on the side of too little when dusting your insects. Calcium is important for bone growth at this stage so use it daily or close to it.

What are some easy to get gutload foods for my chams food? (I was thinking carrots for wet, and some cricket food from the petstore for dry, ans I'm not sure if we can get most of the recommended stuff)
Is a variety of food crucial for gutloading?

Sandrachameleon has hand down the best blog on gutloading: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

Is there one on these forums? Once I get things down with my first, I will certainly want to get a second!

Not many, at least on this side of the ocean anyways. Tanzania is not exporting their wildlife at the moment so there hasn’t been an influx of the bitaeniatus complex in a long while. The Elliots come from neighbouring countries as well but we rarely see exports from them. Europe has had better success in long-term breeding (as proved by your specimen) so there are probably a few more there. The Elliots and related species aren’t bright and colourful so in general they aren’t a popular chameleon to keep. Personally I think they are AWESOME!

If you have further questions please don’t be shy; there are a few of us on the boards that have kept and bred this species.

Cheers,
Trace

 

[Ferrah88]

Wow, thank you for the input! He's quite happy being at the top of the terrarium, and does not ever go more than halfway down and sleeps almost directly center of the cage. He is lighter in colour today, but I think that's because he's about to shed... I did notice something that looked like it was flaking when trying to coax him onto my hand today. (He's still shy, but one day he will figure out that I'm not a scary monster.) So that might be why he's lighter in colour at the moment. Hus parents are also lighter, as are his siblings, so it might also be that he's simply lighter! The basking temp should be 25°C at most, but I have no proper way of measuring it yet... will get around to it, but it's certainly not very warm when putting my hand under the light. The vine that's under the light is also a tiny bit further away, and the light itself was 30W halogen or something... deffo not very warm. I also have 2x 5.0 UV tubes, seeing as they are around 2km closer to the sun in the wild, along with two other "warming" lights to help keep the tank at around 22°C during the day. I'm also planning on getting a couple more plants to "plant" in the waterfall I bought. Didn't realize they were THAT bad in terms of bacteria, and little Marimo doesn't use it anways He prefers shooting his tongue at the dripper system

To make sure the temperature does not reach above 22°C, should I only have my basking light on for 2 hours 2 - 3 times a day, or is it important to keep it on at all times?

I figured he was a boy, as I looked at all 7 babies, picking one of the two with the tail lump, seems like I picked well! He's so shy, but I do hope he will be like his parents one day. They tend to paw the glass of their enclosure, and wait for someone to open the door, and start scrambling out. The male always wants to the window... The babies were also an accident, having arrived shortly after my coworker bought the both of them!

I am currently gutloading with banana, carrot, some field lettuce (as they didn't have any romain today) and dry would be coconut and a teeny bit of sesame seeds. I'm just finding it hard to get some of the things on the list locally, and would like to of course gutload with the best items These items are only in here because I had most of it around the house The crickets seem happy at least.. I just hope they don't grow too much! I will be getting some flies tomorrow, as my colleague has over 1000 flies and his 8 remaining chams aren't enough to stop the breeding! Merimo too looove his flies

I don't have too much problem with drainage at the moment. I have so many plants and lots of thick grapevines that soak in the water before it reaches the bottom, but I will look into getting a drainage system Since he doesn't go to the bottom, I dud put in some very absorbent "earth" at the bottom. It's not exactly earth, or moss, and it stated that it was "for chameleons", so it should be alright. I did cover it all, so he can't ingest any either. Like I said though, I will certainly look into getting a drainage systen and of course a rain system to keep humidity up since I likely don't water him long enough.

Too bad not that may people hold these lovely chameleons. From what I have seen, they are friendly (Hopefully mine too!) and extremely adorable. They constantly seem to have bizzare patters and a wide variety of colours Their cute pocket-sized appearance is also amazing But then again, they are indeed hard to find. The petstores do say that they occasionally have them, and their breeders might have some eventually, so I will have to check with them. Petstores around here take very good care of their pets. Very clean cages, spacious for the bigger chameleons, and of course sometimes smaller if the chameleons are still young. One store only ever has 1 female and 1 male at a time, so as to not have to put two in one terrarium. They hold a nice supply of food.

Thanks again for all the help, it was all very informative!

 

[Trace]

Hello again,

A few more things I want to address and comment on;

He's quite happy being at the top of the terrarium, and does not ever go more than halfway down and sleeps almost directly center of the cage

Yeah that sounds about right. They move up and bask and then move off and maybe move back again. The males are more active than the females’ that’s for sure but I don’t think they need a huge cage either. Mine always sleep in the middle of a plant too. Sounds like you are on the right track and have been researching. I like that.

Hus parents are also lighter, as are his siblings, so it might also be that he's simply lighter!

Absolutely true. As of this writing there is only one described species of ellioti but their range is fairly large across East Africa and the ones from Tanzania have different colours then the ones from Uganda and again from the ones found in Kenya.

I'm also planning on getting a couple more plants to "plant" in the waterfall I bought. Didn't realize they were THAT bad in terms of bacteria, and little Marimo doesn't use it anways He prefers shooting his tongue at the dripper system

You’ve obviously read about the perils of the waterfalls so it’s up to you if you want to keep it but personally I’d take it back. They are more trouble then they are worth upkeep wise.

To make sure the temperature does not reach above 22°C, should I only have my basking light on for 2 hours 2 - 3 times a day, or is it important to keep it on at all times?

Another reason I prefer screen cages; I can provide a deeper temperature gradient in those than in glass. Again though, that’s just me! There are plenty people on the boards that use glass caging with success. Personally I like to use a basking bulb all day as it gives the animal a choice as to where they do things like bask or eat or digest or rest. Having a cage that is all room temperature does not provide that. That said, on the super hot days (It’s rare but we get them in Canada! LOL) I will turn off the basking lights early so my chameleons aren’t sweltering.

He's so shy, but I do hope he will be like his parents one day. They tend to paw the glass of their enclosure, and wait for someone to open the door, and start scrambling out.

He will grow out of the shyness eventually. He might go through a terrible teen phase as well but that goes away too. The Elliots aren’t necessarily gregarious in personality but they certainly aren’t horrifically ungrateful either.

I am currently gutloading with banana, carrot, some field lettuce (as they didn't have any romain today) and dry would be coconut and a teeny bit of sesame seeds. I'm just finding it hard to get some of the things on the list locally, and would like to of course gutload with the best items These items are only in here because I had most of it around the house

Yeah sometimes it’s hard to get everything on that veggie list but try your best and switch the veggies around week by week. Like you I tend to use the veggies that are around the house. I did make my own dry gutload – I think there is a recipe on that blog somewhere – and it’s surprisingly easy. I would stay away from the bananas though. Those are high in phosphorous and insects are already high in that. Look for calcium rich fruits and veggies like mustard greens, turnip greens, dandelion leaves, collard greens, escarole lettuce, papaya, watercress, alfalfa, sweet potato, carrots, oranges, mango, butternut squash, kale, apples, beet greens, blackberries, bok choy and green beans.

[Merimo too looove his flies

LOL! I have not met a chameleon that doesn’t! They go crazy for them.

Have fun with your new creature! Definitely keep us posted on his progress; there are a few Trioceros ellioti fanatics on these boards.

Cheers!
Trace

 

[Ferrah88]

Yeah that sounds about right. They move up and bask and then move off and maybe move back again. The males are more active than the females’ that’s for sure but I don’t think they need a huge cage either. Mine always sleep in the middle of a plant too. Sounds like you are on the right track and have been researching. I like that.

His basking never takes very long, must be because of how small he is. It looks so cute when he goes under the light, stretches his back as high as it can go and looks like he's flopping over. Then he does the other side after about 30 seconds, and then just sits there a bit longer before wandering back off, usually to drink something (Or try and "eat" the water droplets. He usually drinks off of leaves, but tends to shoot his tongue at the dripper!)

Absolutely true. As of this writing there is only one described species of ellioti but their range is fairly large across East Africa and the ones from Tanzania have different colours then the ones from Uganda and again from the ones found in Kenya.

The ones I have come from around Ethiopia He only really gets darker when he's scared or stressed... which is usually when I take him out to check him and make sure he's all fine. After a minute though, he tends to turn green, as he knows now that he gets a little "treat" of being able to climb around on our really tall Ficus tree! He loves blending in with the leaves

You’ve obviously read about the perils of the waterfalls so it’s up to you if you want to keep it but personally I’d take it back. They are more trouble then they are worth upkeep wise.

Unfortunately I can't take it back, but I certainly will take out the water and whatnot. I was planning on planting a couple of plants in there instead.. or rather placing them in there. Some of those vines with the big leaves... or something else. I found a very useful list of plants I can have and will pick out some plants that won't hurt him, even if Ellioti chameleons don't actually eat the leaves. (Can never be too sure!)

Another reason I prefer screen cages; I can provide a deeper temperature gradient in those than in glass. Again though, that’s just me! There are plenty people on the boards that use glass caging with success. Personally I like to use a basking bulb all day as it gives the animal a choice as to where they do things like bask or eat or digest or rest. Having a cage that is all room temperature does not provide that. That said, on the super hot days (It’s rare but we get them in Canada! LOL) I will turn off the basking lights early so my chameleons aren’t sweltering.

I would have loved a screen cage, but with the cats... once we get back from our Christmas in Canada (That's there I come from, I know how hot and cold it can be! I have seen everything from ~-80°C to ~+40°C) I was planning on cleaning out a small section of our bedroom where we store boxed of old cables and whatnot and build up some nice terrariums there. It's secluded and darker, so probably a lot better than where he is now! There's also shelves to let him be higher up, and no chance cats will bug him For the time being though, I think I will have the basking light on a couple of times a day, I find it might be a bit too warm for him right now, and I don't want him to swelter while we're gone! It will come on around 30 minutes to an hour after he wakes up (The other lights in there get fairly warm too, and are in accessible places if he wants to warm up) and around the time I feed him, since I don't get home until later. That should provide good times for him to bask, and it won't get too warm in there either. At least I managed to raise the humidity to 70% - 80%

He will grow out of the shyness eventually. He might go through a terrible teen phase as well but that goes away too. The Elliots aren’t necessarily gregarious in personality but they certainly aren’t horrifically ungrateful either.

I'm sure he will come around He used to try and run from my hand, but now he just sits still, "prays" and stares at my hand before slowly moving away (after about 2 minutes). Once we get some flies today, I'll try and hand feed him again! Have to make sure he gets his calcium

Yeah sometimes it’s hard to get everything on that veggie list but try your best and switch the veggies around week by week. Like you I tend to use the veggies that are around the house. I did make my own dry gutload – I think there is a recipe on that blog somewhere – and it’s surprisingly easy. I would stay away from the bananas though. Those are high in phosphorous and insects are already high in that. Look for calcium rich fruits and veggies like mustard greens, turnip greens, dandelion leaves, collard greens, escarole lettuce, papaya, watercress, alfalfa, sweet potato, carrots, oranges, mango, butternut squash, kale, apples, beet greens, blackberries, bok choy and green beans.

I wasn't sure on the banana, because that's what they give the fruit flies when we buy them. (They come in a double-layered plastic box with a round tub of mushy and liquidized banana, and some dried grass. Means that they come gutloaded, but then again, fruit flies are also hard to move to any other container! The crickets come with various dried gutload straight from the box too. I do have a "cricket box" for them though, so I put them in there right away and add some other gutloads to feed them correctly.) I will have a look around for that dry gutload recipe and see about getting some cress. Turnip come without leaves at the supermarket, unless the German Turnip (Kohlrabi) would work.. will have to look that up later tonight! Dandelion I can get plenty of in the summer, we tend to get a lot in our garden...



I'll be sure to provide plenty of pictures and might even design a website for him and other future chameleons, to mark their progress. I have never had a chameleon before, but I have always been interested in them! I'll have to see how I work things out, but you can certainly be assured that I will be trying to bring more of these cute little chameleons into the world for everyone to enjoy