Closing eyes during the day, not sure why…

[jcarlsen]

Chameleon Info:
* Your Chameleon - Male ambilobe panther chameleon. 2 yrs 3 months old. Been in my care about a year and 10 months.
* Handling - Maybe once or twice a week. I put my hands in daily for a hand feed or to clean a poop and the occasional chin scratch.
* Feeding - Feeding mainly superworms every two days. He will eat hornworms just not as much. Offering 10-12 and he'll usually take between 3-8. I'm gutloading with apples greens and sprinkled on superload.
* Supplements - using repashys calcium plus on every feeding.
* Watering - I primarily use a mistking with a rain dome set up and a nozzle in the cage. My misting schedule is:
- 7am/1 min
- 10am/3 min
- 1pm/2 min
- 4pm/1 min
- 7pm/1 min
I do see him drink, but not every time. He doesn't seem to rush for the water from what I can see.
* Fecal Description - Fecals have mostly been normal. The poop itself is a bit orangish in color but his urates seem to be pretty white in color. He had coccidia last spring and we got him on antibiotics and ponazuril. As of last July he's been parasite free. Did a complete cage strip down and disinfect at the time.
* History - Other than the parasites he hasn't had any other major problems. He's a bit small for his age and unfortunately due to my desire for hand feeding I got him hooked on supers. I tried offering others for up to 10 days but no takers, so I gave up.

Cage Info:
* Cage Type - 24x24x48 dragon strand keeper cage.
* Lighting - I'm using a double 22" fluorescent fixture with 6% Arcadia and a plant bulb. It's on at 6:50 am and off at around 7:16pm.
* Temperature - Floor is in low 70s, low 80s under uv and 90-95 right under basking spot. I have a probe for the basking and a heat gun to measure the rest. Lowest overnight temp wouldn't be below 70.
* Humidity - have an analogue humidity gauge and it is around 40%, but during the winter it's dipped down to 20 at times right before a misting. I wrapped several panels on 3 sides with plastic to retain spray and help with humidity.
* Plants - Just a large pothos in the rear left opposite the basking spot.
* Placement - Cage is in living room, it is next to but not blown on by heat vents which are to the left of it and above and below cage level. Top of cage is about 6 or so feet off the ground so basking spot is eye level.
* Location - Boston, MA

Current Problem - He seems to periodically be closing his eyes during the day. All other behavior seems normal and healthy for him. He does seem to move around, drink, eat and poop fairly normally. The winters up here are a bit tough with humidity, so I've seen a few less than perfect urates. I've usually responded by giving hornworms or a shower or something along those lines.

 

[Calladora]

Could be over misting and over tired cut down on the misting until around end of May beginning of June and have lights totally out for up to10 to12 hours misting should be 3 to 4 times a day

 

[jcarlsen]

Could be over misting and over tired cut down on the misting until around end of May beginning of June and have lights totally out for up to10 to12 hours misting should be 3 to 4 times a day

Huh, could be. I'll try to put the lights out at exactly the 12 hour mark, thanks!

 

[carol5208]

Could be over misting and over tired cut down on the misting until around end of May beginning of June and have lights totally out for up to10 to12 hours misting should be 3 to 4 times a day

I have never heard of eyes being closed for being over tired

Lethargy, Sleeping During The Day

This is perhaps one of the most common health problems seen in captive chameleons. A healthy chameleon should never sleep during the day for any period of time. Sleeping itself is not the illness, but rather an indication that there is something wrong to cause them to feel ill and thus want to sleep. Any number of things could cause this symptom, but the most likely culprit is inappropriate husbandry that has resulted in illness or disease. To learn more about the very important aspects of Chameleon Husbandry see the Chameleon Care Resources. If after the necessary corrections have been made to your husbandry and the symptoms still persist a reptile veterinarian should be consulted.

 

[carol5208]

Usually there are two reasons that a chameleon will do this: Vitamin A deficiency or illness. If you were using incorrect lights that were too bright that could be a possibility, but you have had your chameleon for too long.

 

[carol5208]

One thing on the VitaminA. If you search on here you will see hundreds of threads on the subject. I do believe though that it usually starts with one eye and then eventually will start in the other. Usually people will complain of one eye being closed. Seeing that yours has both, and it started that way(? ) I would say there is some type of underlying illness going on. Once again, we are all just talking from experience and our knowledge of what we have learned on here and none of us can take the place of a qualified vet. If the symptoms persist, I would take him to a vet and atleast get bloodwork done.

 

[jcarlsen]

One thing on the VitaminA. If you search on here you will see hundreds of threads on the subject. I do believe though that it usually starts with one eye and then eventually will start in the other. Usually people will complain of one eye being closed. Seeing that yours has both, and it started that way(? ) I would say there is some type of underlying illness going on. Once again, we are all just talking from experience and our knowledge of what we have learned on here and none of us can take the place of a qualified vet. If the symptoms persist, I would take him to a vet and atleast get bloodwork done.

Funny you mention that. I noticed one eye at first but he was rubbing it and had shed so I thought that was the issue. I'll talk to my local vet and see about getting a fecal done.

 

[carol5208]

Funny you mention that. I noticed one eye at first but he was rubbing it and had shed so I thought that was the issue. I'll talk to my local vet and see about getting a fecal done.

Maybe try some Vitamin A first. You can buy it in capsules and squirt a tiny drop on a feeder. If you research on here like I said, you can find all kinds of info. I hope you can get to the bottom of the problem. Good luck with everything! Yes, it couldn't hurt to get a fecal done, just to rule out parasite problems.

 

[kinyonga]

Is there vitamin A and D33 in the Repashy? (I don't use it so I don't know.)

Changing the misting by cutting out one misting a day and changing the time the lights go off and on by half an hour are not going to change his sleeping during the day IMHO.there's something else going on.

 

[jcarlsen]

I've added some vitamin a to the worms gutload so hopefully that'll help and I've also contacted my vet to get their opinion. This is his poop from this morning. Doesn't look quite like anything in the main post of the poop 101 thread. Do your charms urates appear to mix a bit with the poop or is that something else in the pic?

 

[Johannx]

Thats not a normal poop... The poop should have the same shape, covered with mucosa, and urate, now that I read your post, it could be a temperature problem ... I also see that you have it with little foliage, that also varies the humidity quite a bit... Another question, what does Jack eat? It is essential, that the gutload of the insects is the correct one ... since many times, only sprinkle them, does not provide the daily requirements ...
i have 10 panthers chams, and i have a femmale that has the same behavior, but she was sick, since i bought her, and didn't grow up... her problem was Intestinal bacterial overpopulation, 1 week of treatment, and she now is like the other 9 ...

 

[Nursemaia]

That's a really barren cage, he needs way more foliage, coverage, and climbing branches. It needs to look like a jungle. I'd also changed his misting schedule, I would do less frequent listings but longer sessions. I would do three times a day for three to five minutes.

 

[jcarlsen]

That's a really barren cage, he needs way more foliage, coverage, and climbing branches. It needs to look like a jungle. I'd also changed his misting schedule, I would do less frequent listings but longer sessions. I would do three times a day for three to five minutes.

Sounds good. I'll reprogram my mister and look into grabbing some more plants. Any recommendations for plants aside from another pothos?

 

[Nursemaia]

If you have lots of light, ficus and hibiscus. Schefflera are really nice too

 

[JohnHHall]

When he feeds is it on the ground or in his fines, and do he use his tonge or bite the insects?

 

[jcarlsen]

When he feeds is it on the ground or in his fines, and do he use his tonge or bite the insects?

I have a feeder cup that's up next to his basking area. He usually feeds from that or my hand. He's pretty much only fond of superworms and some hornworms.

 

[Klaudiemo]

You should not give your cham superworms or hornworms as a main diet. They are commonly used as a treat for reptiles but not as a main food source. They have a lot of fat in them and are not very nutritious + Superworm are harder to digest for chameleon. Use crickets as a main food source and gut load them with mix of vegetable and fruit. He may not be interested in them at first, because he was used to eat fat worms. His problems are because of a really bad diet. This explains the weird shape of the poop. I would add a vitamin A too. If he is not able to hunt with his tongue he is lacking some vitamins and minerals. Change his diet quickly. I hope he will get better soon.

 

[jcarlsen]

You should not give your cham superworms or hornworms as a main diet. They are commonly used as a treat for reptiles but not as a main food source. They have a lot of fat in them and are not very nutritious + Superworm are harder to digest for chameleon. Use crickets as a main food source and gut load them with mix of vegetable and fruit. He may not be interested in them at first, because he was used to eat fat worms. His problems are because of a really bad diet. This explains the weird shape of the poop. I would add a vitamin A too. If he is not able to hunt with his tongue he is lacking some vitamins and minerals. Change his diet quickly. I hope he will get better soon.

I understand that. He will not eat anything else. I refused him worms for two weeks straight and he would not eat anything else still.

 

[Klaudiemo]

I understand that. He will not eat anything else. I tasted him for two weeks straight and he would not eat anything else still.

That is because he was used to eat only the worms and the worms are like delicacy for chameleons. Like chocolate for poeple. Just put some gut loaded crickets in his terrarium and don't offer him nothing else. Once he will get really hungry, he will eat them. Trust me. I have some experiemce with cams addicted to superworms. It can take few days, so prepare for that. Only thing is that I don't know if this is not a bit risky considering he is not feeling well. But on the other hand, the worms may be the thing that is causing it. I had cham from a friend of mine that was being fed only with superworms. She was showing similar symptoms as your cham. I changed her diet quickly and it really did help. Now she is one happy cham

 

[jcarlsen]

That is because he was used to eat only the worms and the worms are like delicacy for chameleons. Like chocolate for poeple. Just put some gut loaded crickets in his terrarium and don't offer him nothing else. Once he will get really hungry, he will eat them. Trust me. I have some experiemce with cams addicted to superworms. It can take few days, so prepare for that. Only thing is that I don't know if this is not a bit risky considering he is not feeling well. But on the other hand, the worms may be the thing that is causing it. I had cham from a friend of mine that was being fed only with superworms. She was showing similar symptoms as your cham. I changed her diet quickly and it really did help. Now she is one happy cham

I tried what you said and he didn't take any roaches or crickets for about 14 days… are you suggesting I try it again and wait it out longer? Both my vet and bill from dragon strand that the superworms battle was one to give up if he was losing weight which he was. I do have a better misting schedule than back then, so it might be with another go. I've got roaches to try, so I'll offer those tomorrow.