Closed Eyes During the Day

Shaner

Shaner

New Member
Hey All,

I figured I would post something here to see if anyone has had this problem before, and knows what to do.

I already have an appointment with the vet booked, but I want to see if I can fix this without a vet visit for once.

OK here is the problem.

I have come home from work to mist the chameleon down and noticed that her eyes are closed (only seen this twice). She is a Female Ambanja Panther, and is only about 3 - 4 months old. She is about 5" long with tail stretched out.

Her enclosure is home built and is 2' tall by 18" wide and long. The enclosure is open so it has proper air flow. She has a 5.0UVB light that stretches across the cage perfectly if I put it diagnally so she gets UVB wherever she goes. Her heat source is a 75W exo-terra basking light.

Her temps in the cage are to spec, and her food is dusted in Zoo Med Calcium powder without D3 (I also have the powder with the D3 that I use maybe twice a month). Her poop is fine it is white and black, she is not dehydrated and her eyes are not sunken in. She seems healthy but I know that closed eyes during the day isn't right, I wake her up when she gets like that. She moves around quite a bit too.

Her cage setup is great, lots of hiding spots lots of fake vines and sticks to climb on. She can use the cage too since her cage is made of wood and chicken wire fencing, so nothing is restricted to her. She is in an area where there isn't much traffic so she can't be stressed?

Please if you know anyting, it would be greatly appreciated, if you are just going to comment and tell me that I don't know what I am doing and I am raising my chameleon wrong...then don't waste your time posting.

Thanks for the help people.

Shane
 
My panther has been known to close his eyes during the day on occasion. When last I had him at the vet (because he had reached the ripe age of 1.8 years and was slowing down, and was in the winter doldrums in Michigan), he checked my guy over thoroughly and gave him a clean bill of health. I asked him about the eyes closed during the day business, and he said, "Sometimes they just do that."

Maybe that was a bogus answer. Maybe he didn't know what he was talking about (my vet is the primary reptile vet in the area, and is the vet on call for the local pet store which has a big, good reptile section). But chameleons have not been pets for very long, and there's still a lot that isn't understood about their husbandry. Humans are diurnal, but it is not unknown for one of us to take a nap. Thaxter is now three and a half years old and seems to be going strong.

That's not to say you shouldn't bring your girl to the vet; there may be something wrong and it could be corrected - or there may not, and you could be reassured. I would consider spending the time and money "only" to find out there's nothing wrong MUCH the lesser evil than not doing so, only to find out I should have and losing/hurting the cham. But I wouldn't lose heart until I have the vet's opinion.
 
OK I kinda figured it was due to the change of season, but that seemed too good to be true.

It is around the same time of day as you guys or a bit later between 5:30 and 8pm. I have her timer set so the lights come on at 7:30am and turn off at 9pm.

It is fall where I live and the temps are going into the minuses in celcius range. Our winters are damn cold gets down to -40c sometimes (but that is rare) But not too worry she won't get cold, that I promise.

So the majority of you think it is just the fall change in season? I am relieved to hear that thank you.

Shane
 
Start reducing the amount of time the lights are on. I would try to mirror what's happening outside.

-Brad
 
Really? It gets dark around here by 6pm, so if I am turning the lights on at 7:30am, and turning them off at 9 should I reduce that?

say 7:30am - 8pm? What would you recommend Brad?

Shane
 
Shaner said:
Really? It gets dark around here by 6pm, so if I am turning the lights on at 7:30am, and turning them off at 9 should I reduce that?say 7:30am - 8pm? What would you recommend Brad?
Shane
Click to expand...

Im not Brad, but I felt like not working for a minute so you get my two cents ;)
Id say this week turn your lights out at 8, next week 7 and then go close to 6 or so. I'm currently running 7:15am - 6:45 pm on the UVBs and 7:30am - 5pm on the basking lamps. Lights out at 6:45 seems to be the time they are naturally starting to curl up for sleeping, gives me a chance to check on everyone when I get home from work, and is not too long after the sun goes down.
 
sandrachameleon said:
Im not Brad, but I felt like not working for a minute so you get my two cents ;)
Id say this week turn your lights out at 8, next week 7 and then go close to 6 or so. I'm currently running 7:15am - 6:45 pm on the UVBs and 7:30am - 5pm on the basking lamps. Lights out at 6:45 seems to be the time they are naturally starting to curl up for sleeping, gives me a chance to check on everyone when I get home from work, and is not too long after the sun goes down.
Click to expand...

I agree with Sandra. This is basically the exact lighting schedule I use for the winter months. When it is naturally getting darker earlier, it's best to get your lights off earlier as well to replicate the natural sun cycle.
 
Reading this makes me feel better , I to live in Michigan and i have been catching my male panther taking naps after 6pm.
 
Hey Shaner

Wanted to add an aside, but one which I think supports that belief that the animal's health can be adversely affected if natural seasonal fluctuations are not maintained.

Specifically, our experience goes to the negative impact a "constant summer" will have on your breeding-sized females. This is influenced primarily by both temperature and lighting, when year-round husbandry conditions maintain a summer-always cycle, in that days are not seasonally shortened, and average high and low temps not adjusted. By keeping a female in an "always summer" mode, she will not then turn off her egg-production cycle. As many of these animals are capable of double and even triple clutching in a season, continued successful mating is not the key to this cycle. One successful breeding, during what the animal perceives as Spring and/or Summer conditions, is all that is necessary to start the cycle of production. Without an eventual seasonal cool-down, some females stay switched "ON", producing successive clutches beyond a more normal 2 or 3 total. Even under the best conditions, fertility and overall success rates for the eggs produced will decline with each successive clutch due to the amount of time elapsed since the original successful mating.

In the wild, double and triple clutching in a good season appears to be quite normal. Using pardalis as an example, Mother Nature then turns the females "OFF" with a seasonal temperature drop of about 10 degrees F, and shorter days. Other species get their own similar seasonal climate signals. During this "OFF" time, females get the needed rest and recuperation to prepare for the next breeding season. Without this naturally occuring recovery cycle, the rigors of continued egg production will drain the female. Net result: bad eggs, dead female, unhappy hobbyist.

How much of this can be extrapolated to the health longevity of the male ? Don't really know, but when in any doubt, Mother Nature is still the standard to be emulated. Good luck.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Wanted to add an aside, but one which I think supports that belief that the animal's health can be adversely affected if natural seasonal fluctuations are not maintained.

Specifically, our experience goes to the negative impact a "constant summer" will have on your breeding-sized females. This is influenced primarily by both temperature and lighting, when year-round husbandry conditions maintain a summer-always cycle, in that days are not seasonally shortened, and average high and low temps not adjusted. By keeping a female in an "always summer" mode, she will not then turn off her egg-production cycle. As many of these animals are capable of double and even triple clutching in a season, continued successful mating is not the key to this cycle. One successful breeding, during what the animal perceives as Spring and/or Summer conditions, is all that is necessary to start the cycle of production. Without an eventual seasonal cool-down, some females stay switched "ON", producing successive clutches beyond a more normal 2 or 3 total. Even under the best conditions, fertility and overall success rates for the eggs produced will decline with each successive clutch due to the amount of time elapsed since the original successful mating.

In the wild, double and triple clutching in a good season appears to be quite normal. Using pardalis as an example, Mother Nature then turns the females "OFF" with a seasonal temperature drop of about 10 degrees F, and shorter days. Other species get their own similar seasonal climate signals. During this "OFF" time, females get the needed rest and recuperation to prepare for the next breeding season. Without this naturally occuring recovery cycle, the rigors of continued egg production will drain the female. Net result: bad eggs, dead female, unhappy hobbyist.

How much of this can be extrapolated to the health longevity of the male ? Don't really know, but when in any doubt, Mother Nature is still the standard to be emulated. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.
 
During the winter, they will siometimes react more to the daylight outside rather than the lighting indoors. If the sun has gone down, they respond by turning in for the night, even with the lighting on. Each cham is different but you will notice this to happen with some of them, especially if they are near a window to see out.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Wanted to add an aside, but one which I think supports that belief that the animal's health can be adversely affected if natural seasonal fluctuations are not maintained.

Specifically, our experience goes to the negative impact a "constant summer" will have on your breeding-sized females. This is influenced primarily by both temperature and lighting, when year-round husbandry conditions maintain a summer-always cycle, in that days are not seasonally shortened, and average high and low temps not adjusted. By keeping a female in an "always summer" mode, she will not then turn off her egg-production cycle. As many of these animals are capable of double and even triple clutching in a season, continued successful mating is not the key to this cycle. One successful breeding, during what the animal perceives as Spring and/or Summer conditions, is all that is necessary to start the cycle of production. Without an eventual seasonal cool-down, some females stay switched "ON", producing successive clutches beyond a more normal 2 or 3 total. Even under the best conditions, fertility and overall success rates for the eggs produced will decline with each successive clutch due to the amount of time elapsed since the original successful mating.

In the wild, double and triple clutching in a good season appears to be quite normal. Using pardalis as an example, Mother Nature then turns the females "OFF" with a seasonal temperature drop of about 10 degrees F, and shorter days. Other species get their own similar seasonal climate signals. During this "OFF" time, females get the needed rest and recuperation to prepare for the next breeding season. Without this naturally occuring recovery cycle, the rigors of continued egg production will drain the female. Net result: bad eggs, dead female, unhappy hobbyist.

How much of this can be extrapolated to the health longevity of the male ? Don't really know, but when in any doubt, Mother Nature is still the standard to be emulated. Good luck.
Click to expand...

It is a bit harder to keep my chams cool during the day on some days because I live in CA. But at night I do let the temps drop. I don't let the room get much lower than 65*F, if the temp outside can bring the room to that temp.

Since the night temps are a lot cooler than they were in summer will that help turn her 'off'? or does my female need cooler day temps as well?
 
sttines said:
During the winter, they will siometimes react more to the daylight outside rather than the lighting indoors. If the sun has gone down, they respond by turning in for the night, even with the lighting on. Each cham is different but you will notice this to happen with some of them, especially if they are near a window to see out.
Click to expand...

I've found the same thing, first with my Jackson's and now with my panther. My chams have both tended to head for "home" and settle for the night about two hours before true sunset - so 7:30ish in the summer, 3:30 or so in the winter, regardless of any indoor lights. My amateurish chameleon psychology take on this is "I'm a slow animal; if I head to my perch well before sunset, I will be sure to get there in time even if something unexpected happens (find an exciting bug on the way). I have no night vision, and can't risk getting caught out at night."
 
Summoner 12

The nighttime low seems to be the most significant factor in turning off a female. Shorter days may be an influence as well. Where possible, diving them all the way to 60 F at night seems to do the trick. Hope all goes well.
 
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