Chameleon's eyes closed

[Mueller23]

Hi, I have about a 6 month or older male veiled chameleon. It has been really great so far, but lately he seems to shut his eyes often. There is no ooz or crust, so I'm not over concerned.

I am wondering if this is because of lack of sufficient heat. His cage is 80-85F at the top and like 70-75F on bottom. At night he gets to about 65F. I use an electronic temperature gage as well as an actual thermometer. I think this because i put a heater in my room (not directly by his cage) and he seems to move more and open his eyes more. I use a 35 watt UVA for heat.

I also have noticed that he closes his eyes if I get him out. He doesn't run away, he just sits there and has his eyes closed.

Any information, ideas, or tips would be awesome!

 

[ataraxia]

Pictures are very helpful...We will need this filled out to help you.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

 

[Mueller23]

I have a male veiled chameleon who is a little less than a year old. I’ve had him for almost 2 months.
• I don’t handle my chameleon every day, but try to. He seems to come to my mom and I (we take care of him)
• I am feeding my chameleons strictly pin heads crickets right now. He eats about 5 a day. Some days less, some days more. I gut load them with the yellow flukers (water and nutrients) and also fresh greens like lettuce, carrots, and sometimes peppers.
• I dust my crickets with calcium MINUS PHOSPHORUS right before I put them into his cage. I do cup feed, but the crickets get out sometimes and he hunts them. I prefer that a couple do because I like him being active.
• I water atleast twice a day with heated distilled water (Lukewarm). I mist for a minute or so and then drip in the same place. I almost always see him open his mouth and swallow but I don’t always see him drink. I, however, don’t think that dehydration is an issue because he is meaty and his eyes are not sunken.
• His fecal material is normal. It is solid and brown with the last bit yellow and almost always a white tipped end.

• My cage is a 16x16x20in screened cage. I have 10in tall glass piece on three sides to hold in humidity and heat.

• I have both UVB and UVA bulbs. I use a repti-sun 5.0 bulb and a 35 watt UVA. They are both repti sun brand (tropical). I lalso use a low watt moonlight.

• My cage is 80 degrees in his basking spot and 70 at the lowest spot in his tank. I measur e this with an actualthermometer in there and I also have a laser temperature measurer (which is really nice and expensive. My dad got it from an air conditioning tech guy). My humidity is always above 50 if not 60. I have a bottom of “mulchy-ish material” I bought from the pet store for reptiles that holds a lot of humidity and heat.

• Since I’ve only had a chameleon for about 2 months, I haven’t bought any live plants yet. I use all fake.

• My cage is in my room about 2 feet of the ground (at the bottom) so about 3.5 feet at the top. There isn’t too much traffic. We keep the door shut and I never run my fan. Would running a fan be ok?

• I live in southeaster michigan about 5 minutes from toledo. It is winter here and very gloomy, so I don’t know if that wuold make a difference in his acting.

Thanks for your help! I noticed that as it is shut, it is not tightly shut. It is only a little. And it seems to be shutting more. However, he will open it up if ihold him, or he sees food. It doesn't seem to bother him. I think he may have something in it. Would a shower be a good thing to try?

 

[carol5208]

I would raise the basking temp to about 88-90. 80 is more for a young chameleon. Also, that cage is really way to small for an adult. Those are two things I see right off the bat. You are missing two supplements besides the calcium. you need calcium with d3 and a multivitamin to be used twice monthly on both of those. your cham could be lacking vit a. Try gutloading with some dark greens such as kale, mustard greens, collard greens. regular lettuce is like feeding water. Not much nutrients. no lights at night!

 

[Mueller23]

Thanks! I have increased my temperature. And he is definitly still a baby, possibly a juvenile. He's about 4 inches long on the body.

And i use "Flukers Calcium with Vitamin D3 that has no phosphorus (on container)" on my crickets EVERYDAY. I've heard that i should do this twice a month? What do some experienced people think? He has on white powder by his eyes or nose, so I don't think he is getting too much. To feed my crickets, I do use dark greens, and Flukers cricket quencher (calcium fortified. It is the yellow stuff) My crickets are very helpfull and you can tell that they are big and very nice.

 

[carol5208]

do not use the d3 at every feeding. get a plain calcium without d3. You said your chameleon was just under a year. You still need a bigger cage. 24 X 24 X48 is the preferred size for an adult veild.

 

[Solid Snake]

Using a calcium with D3 everyday is going to overdose him on D3. You need to use it more like twice a month. Plain straight calcium is for everyday
Its highly possible that the nite light is keeping him awake, and so hes getting sleepy during the day. Its also possible hes starting to be overdosed on the D3. Stop using the D3 for one and a half months. Switch to the plain calcium now. This will give the D3 time to get out of his system, then you can start it twice a month
JMO

 

[Mueller23]

This is great stuff! I will cut the calcium powder i'm using and switch to some with no D3 this weekend. What kind should I buy (brand and such)?

Also, where should I buy a bigger cage? and i'm assuming all screen is still the way to go? maybe buy some plexi glass if I feel that it is needed?

 

[ataraxia]

sleeping is not a good thing and usually a correctable issue.
based on your care my recommendations.
1. Loose the mulchyish substrate. he will shoot for food and possibly get this stuck to his tongue along wit hthe insect and ingest this. Too much of this with his small digestive system can equal impaction.
2. supplements: with a chameleon this young typically a lack of vitamins isnt the issues but i never rule it out. id also like to see a pic of this chameleon to be sure of age. at any rate i would be sure he is getting enough vitA. you want to be careful not to overdose if using any product with preformed vitA. Id pick up some reptivite and dust his next few feedings with it. <----SCRATCH THAT. If you have been using a d3 supplement constantly. i would get some fish oil instead of reptivite. Lightly smear the back of ONE feeder and try this for a few days. Dont get carried away with this stuff it can harm your chameleon.
3. Lighting: You say it is a reptisun 5.0 35 watt. I am having a hard time finding that combination..Could you please check this or refer me to a link. lighting can be linked to eye issues. so lets make sure this is correct.
4. Illness. chameleons will close both eyes having a heavy parasite load, severely dehydrated, organ failure, etc.

have pics of this animal and cage?

 

[ataraxia]

you also said pinhead crickets? if this chameleon is 4 inches snout to vent. You need to be feeding crickets the size of distance between the eyes.

 

[kinyonga]

Finally after 9 posts atraxia notices that the chameleon is being fed pinheads....and you said only 5 a day?????????? He must either be very small or very thin....IMHO he should be eating at least 8 or 10 full-sized crickets every second day if he's the normal size for one that is just under a year old.

Can you post a photo of him please?

 

[Mueller23]

Thaanks for your advice! you seem to really know what you're talking about! I will try and put a pic up tonight or tomorrow. As for the lights, I will get my box out and tell you later tonight. and he's actually 3. The pinheads are good for him i think. He seems to like them and go for them easily!

For the vitamin A. You should fish oil? like fish oil tablets adults take? Cuz i have some of them! How would you rub them on a cricket?

Thanks again!

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post a photo of him please with something that will give me an indication of his size?

Regarding fish oil...please be aware that it contains not only prEformed vitamin A but D3 as well as a rule. A balance of nutrients is important. See the rest of my post below for more information about it.

Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[carol5208]

Thaanks for your advice! you seem to really know what you're talking about! I will try and put a pic up tonight or tomorrow. As for the lights, I will get my box out and tell you later tonight. and he's actually 3. The pinheads are good for him i think. He seems to like them and go for them easily!

For the vitamin A. You should fish oil? like fish oil tablets adults take? Cuz i have some of them! How would you rub them on a cricket?

Thanks again!

what do you mean "he's actually 3"???

 

[Mueller23]

ya, I use pinheads. He is more like 3 inches long tho. Sorry. He seems to really like them and go for them with ease.

As for my lights, I use a 26watt Reptiglow 5.0 for UVB, a 60watt Sun glo for UVA, and a 50watt Night glo for nighttime. All of these are exo-terra brand. Should I change this? If so, why do you think so?

For the vitamin A, I understand he needs it (now), but I am very concerned about overdosing him. How do I effectivly feed him vitamin A in the correct doses? What do you recommend I buy (brand and stuff would be awesome!)

Thanks for all your help! You really seem to know what you're talking about, and I appreciate it a ton!

 

[Mueller23]

by 3", I mean that his body is 3" from head to butt. All together (tail and body) he is 6"ish).

My lighting is posted below. Is there a different bulb I should buy to increase his heat?

And If I use calcium power WITHOUT D3, how do I ensure he gets the correct amount of Vitamin A? can you buy vitamin A, or is there a food to feed his crickets, which will in turn give him vitamin A?

Thanks for all your feedback! You guys really seem to know some great tips and tricks!

 

[ataraxia]

As for my lights, I use a 26watt Reptiglow 5.0 for UVB, a 60watt Sun glo for UVA, and a 50watt Night glo for nighttime. All of these are exo-terra brand. Should I change this? If so, why do you think so?

Coil UVB bulbs in the past have been linked to eye issues. I would change your to fluorescent style to be sure. No need for night time light/heat also. If your temps fall below 50 i would implement a ceramic heater. Your chameleon needs to sleep on a schedule.

For the vitamin A, I understand he needs it (now), but I am very concerned about overdosing him. How do I effectivly feed him vitamin A in the correct doses? What do you recommend I buy (brand and stuff would be awesome!)

It is the same stuff but if he is 3 months old. I really really dont think this is the cause.

If your cham was mine.
1. I would re think my hydration practices and make sure his urates are white and humidity levels are atleast above 50%
2. Change the coil bulb to a fluorescent.
3. Temps. Make sure they are correct.

If all of the above is correct...I would fear impaction or illness.

 

[Mueller23]

ya, he eats 5 a day, so 10 (sometimes less and sometimes more) every other day.

I will turn of the night bulb, and see how it goes.
His lights are on a schedule. I had him on a 12 hour day and 12 hour night, but he seemed to go to sleep when it started getting dark (about 7:30pm here in michigan during January) and getting up about 9am when it was light. I have my blinds shut, but he can tell the natural sun schedule I believe. But his lights are on timers and as the summer comes, i will make the day longer.

As for the hydration practices, I'm going to buy a legit dripper system and continue misting with warm water. Is that what you would do?

Can I ask what flourescent bulbs do that lead to eye problems? I have heard from many that they are fine, and many like yourself that they are bad. Why do you think they are bad? and what would youbuy instead?

Thank you a ton for all of your help!

 

[ataraxia]

The problem is with compact "coil" uvb bulbs. I have personally had problems with this type of bulb with my own animals. Here is a link for reasons.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm

They have supposedly fixed the issue. Some on here run them and have no issues and some have run into issues. When a chameleons is having eye issues and these is being used. We need to weed out all the possibilities.

 

[Mueller23]

This sounds very interesting! Mine does seem to be lethargic lately. What do you recommend I use? I know to use phosphorus as the article said, but is there a certain type you think is good? I do prefer Exo-terra, but am willing to experiment.