Chameleon won't use left arm

etho9

New Member
Hey guys. So about 3 days ago my chameleon started to shed, the first day went fine but on the second day of shedding I noticed that she hadn't been using her left arm from about the elbow down and immediately was alarmed. I also noticed a slight discoloration on the effected area, I searched the web for a solution however I wasn't able to find a similar case. Pictures and additional info below. Thank you for your help!

INFO:
Species- Vailed Chameleon
Sex- Female
Age- about 9 months, been in my care since infantry (about 8 months)
Handling- almost never unless cage is being cleaned so 1 or 2 times a month
Feeding- Gets fed once a day, Mainly gut loaded crickets (gut loaded with Orange Cube Complete Cricket Diet and Cricket Quencher Calcium Fortified both by flunkers) but more recently she favors an assortment of worms
Supplements- Just about everything I feed her is dusted in either RepCal Calcuim with D3 (Mon-Fri) or Zoo Meds Reptivite with D3 (Sat-Sun)
Watering- Thorough misting 2 times a day and I have a dripper which I put on just about every day for like 5 mins. I usually do see her drinking sometimes I don't.
Fecal Description- Brown coloration and usually well hydrated (watery), never been tested for parasites (feces are usually removed asap)
History- Nothing like this had happened before but she usually is on edge, if my hand goes close to her she typically starts to hiss, however since she has stopped using her arm, I've been inspecting it and she doesn't seem to mind me touching it.
Cage- "Zoo Med ReptiBreeze Open Air Screen Cage, Large, 18 x 18 x 36-Inches"
Lighting- Zoo Med Tropical UVB Heat Lighting Kit | Schedule: Turns on 7AM, turns off 7PM (hooked up to a timer)

Temperature- Basking Temp: about 75°F (daytime) and around 67°F (nighttime) meausured with JEDEW Mini Hygrometer Thermometer
Humidity- Average: 40%, moderated by misting, also measured with JEDEW Mini Hygrometer Thermometer
Plants- Some fake, some real, real ones have been purchased from a pet store, no fertilizers.
Placement- Cage sitting on a plastic bin, no more than a foot off the ground, not near any air vents however I do have a mini desk fan about four feet away from the cage which I occasionally put on
Geographically located on the East Coast of North America.

If there is any other additional info I can give please let me know I will let you know.
Capture11.JPGCapture12.JPGCapture13.JPG
 

coastal_chameleon

Avid Member
Supplements- Just about everything I feed her is dusted in either RepCal Calcuim with D3 (Mon-Fri) or Zoo Meds Reptivite with D3 (Sat-Sun)

I mainly keep panthers but right of the bat , this is to much d3 ! you would want to use a calcium with out d3 every feeding and use the one you have a couple times a month .

hopefully some one can go more in to detail about this , I don't want to give you inaccurate info !
 

etho9

New Member
Supplements- Just about everything I feed her is dusted in either RepCal Calcuim with D3 (Mon-Fri) or Zoo Meds Reptivite with D3 (Sat-Sun)

I mainly keep panthers but right of the bat , this is to much d3 ! you would want to use a calcium with out d3 every feeding and use the one you have a couple times a month .

hopefully some one can go more in to detail about this , I don't want to give you inaccurate info !
Thank you, I do have a calcium supplement without d3 which I will start using regularly. Do you think that this problem could be from too much D3 or does this look like something else?
 

coastal_chameleon

Avid Member
Thank you, I do have a calcium supplement without d3 which I will start using regularly. Do you think that this problem could be from too much D3 or does this look like something else?
im not to sure what the problem can be , I just know that is way to much d3 and the dome lights you say you use are not really recommended for a uvb source, you would want to get a T5 HO Arcadia 6% or Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 , these spread the light much better than the coil looking bulbs that come with the Zoo Med Tropical UVB Heat Lighting Kit !
 

etho9

New Member
im not to sure what the problem can be , I just know that is way to much d3 and the dome lights you say you use are not really recommended for a uvb source, you would want to get a T5 HO Arcadia 6% or Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 , these spread the light much better than the coil looking bulbs that come with the Zoo Med Tropical UVB Heat Lighting Kit !
Okay thank you, I'm heading to the pet store later I'll look into it!
 

Ares05

Chameleon Enthusiast
I will comment on a few things (note I don't know what's wrong with her arm-- just things wrong with your husbandry)

As said above, way too much d3. You will want to get a multivitamin without d3. Your schedule should be calcium without d3 everyday, multivitamin without d3 every other week (twice a month) and calcium with d3 every other week (twice a month), but alternate the weeks. Too much d3 can be toxic. I hope that makes sense.

Your lighting is garbage, get rid of the coil uvb and the colored heating bulb. Grab a normal household bulb (around 60-70 watts) and then grab a Reptisun 5.0 or an Arcadia 6% (tube florescent bulbs, no coils!!) and a t5ho fixture to hold it.

Your temperatures are bit cold for her, at her age you'll want to keep her at 80-82 at the basking spot, ambient of 70-74

At her age you will also want to start feeding her a bit less and/or every other day, or something like that. Someone who has a female can be more detailed with this ( if ive got something wrong in this category correct me lol)

for gut loading, you are going to want to use leafy green like collards, beet greens, romaine, ect. You can mix in some veggies too, fruits for moisture. It's also recommended to us at least 1 commercial gutload mix, such as Cricket crack or Bug burger.

If her poop is 'watery' as in not very solid, its likely she could have parasites. Get her tested asap. Or if you mean 'watery' as in there is a lot of water/mucus that comes out with it, same possibility.

If she normally hisses at you and is now fine with you touching her, I would be concerned something is up. Same as if Amaro (my sassy veiled) randomly stopped hissing if I have to pick him up for whatever reason, id be concerned.

for plants, I would switch to all live plants. veiled's are known to take a liking to plants and if she eats a fake one you're in for even more trouble. But I would wait to switch until you get a fecal, as if she's got something like coccidia you will have to throw out the plants which would be a huge waste.

You don't need to get organic plants, drive to lowes or home depot and grab a plant thats on the safe list for chams, drive home, wash off the leaves well, repot with topsoil. Done, easier and cheaper than looking at the Petstore for 'organic plants'

You can run the dripper longer than five minutes, not gonna hurt anything. Just make sure it drips pretty slow, not fast. You could also put a little cup underneath the general area of the dripper, so then when it drips on the leaves, it will drip from the leaves into the cup, not onto the cage floor.

What is your drainage setup?

How much are you feeding? you weren't very specific.

Post pictures of her whole body and face, along with multiple pictures of her setup.
 

etho9

New Member
I will comment on a few things (note I don't know what's wrong with her arm-- just things wrong with your husbandry)

As said above, way too much d3. You will want to get a multivitamin without d3. Your schedule should be calcium without d3 everyday, multivitamin without d3 every other week (twice a month) and calcium with d3 every other week (twice a month), but alternate the weeks. Too much d3 can be toxic. I hope that makes sense.

Your lighting is garbage, get rid of the coil uvb and the colored heating bulb. Grab a normal household bulb (around 60-70 watts) and then grab a Reptisun 5.0 or an Arcadia 6% (tube florescent bulbs, no coils!!) and a t5ho fixture to hold it.

Your temperatures are bit cold for her, at her age you'll want to keep her at 80-82 at the basking spot, ambient of 70-74

At her age you will also want to start feeding her a bit less and/or every other day, or something like that. Someone who has a female can be more detailed with this ( if ive got something wrong in this category correct me lol)

for gut loading, you are going to want to use leafy green like collards, beet greens, romaine, ect. You can mix in some veggies too, fruits for moisture. It's also recommended to us at least 1 commercial gutload mix, such as Cricket crack or Bug burger.

If her poop is 'watery' as in not very solid, its likely she could have parasites. Get her tested asap. Or if you mean 'watery' as in there is a lot of water/mucus that comes out with it, same possibility.

If she normally hisses at you and is now fine with you touching her, I would be concerned something is up. Same as if Amaro (my sassy veiled) randomly stopped hissing if I have to pick him up for whatever reason, id be concerned.

for plants, I would switch to all live plants. veiled's are known to take a liking to plants and if she eats a fake one you're in for even more trouble. But I would wait to switch until you get a fecal, as if she's got something like coccidia you will have to throw out the plants which would be a huge waste.

You don't need to get organic plants, drive to lowes or home depot and grab a plant thats on the safe list for chams, drive home, wash off the leaves well, repot with topsoil. Done, easier and cheaper than looking at the Petstore for 'organic plants'

You can run the dripper longer than five minutes, not gonna hurt anything. Just make sure it drips pretty slow, not fast. You could also put a little cup underneath the general area of the dripper, so then when it drips on the leaves, it will drip from the leaves into the cup, not onto the cage floor.

What is your drainage setup?

How much are you feeding? you weren't very specific.

Post pictures of her whole body and face, along with multiple pictures of her setup.
Thank you so much for the response, as said before I am going to the pet store to check out a new lighting setup, as far as feeding goes she has been eating a bit less than when she was young shell eat about 5-7 crickets and a couple worms before she becomes uninterested, as far as the hissing goes she still does it, but I was just feeling around the problematic arm and she doesn't hiss but if I touch anywhere else she will. Also her poop is solid but I meant watery as in not dry, moist I guess you can say. And I will change gut loading for crickets, once again thanks so much for the response. I just want to ask, is this the first time you've seen something like this on a cham? I've looked all over to see if anyone else had seen this problem and I haven't seen it anywhere
 

Ares05

Chameleon Enthusiast
Well a few days back there was a thread about a chameleons hind legs stopped working during shedding, then was fine afterwards, though I didn't comment on the thread. I find it unlikely that shedding has anything to do with it. I think your chams problem has to do with some of the incorrect husbandry.

Even if her poop looks normal, still test it. Im currently treating Amaro for coccidia and his poop looked completely fine. Just take it to a reptile vet and have them test it for you, normally costs 20-60 bucks.

Still, start feeding her less if possible. Females that produce huge clutches can die from just the stress and exertion, along with the weakness afterward, and some aren't even strong enough to get all the eggs out if there is too many.

Hun I am not an expert and honestly I don't have much idea of what is wrong with your girl except husbandry issues- ive only been owning chameleons for 2 months, though I have learned alot. I can just help with your husbandry and possible causes.

And order lighting online, the pet stores double the prices.
 

Ares05

Chameleon Enthusiast
didn't mean to quote myself lol.


So correct me if i'm wrong, according to the link d3 poisoning causes symptoms of low calcium, as it pulls it out of the bones into the organs, causing organ damage. Calcium in humans is used for multiple things including contraction/movement of your muscles (obviously lol), so is it basically the same thing here, or something like it?

Edit: basically I mean if there is not enough calcium in the bones/body, and it goes into the organs instead, would it cause lack movement in the muscles? ( I lack better terms)
 
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etho9

New Member
Well a few days back there was a thread about a chameleons hind legs stopped working during shedding, then was fine afterwards, though I didn't comment on the thread. I find it unlikely that shedding has anything to do with it. I think your chams problem has to do with some of the incorrect husbandry.

Even if her poop looks normal, still test it. Im currently treating Amaro for coccidia and his poop looked completely fine. Just take it to a reptile vet and have them test it for you, normally costs 20-60 bucks.

Still, start feeding her less if possible. Females that produce huge clutches can die from just the stress and exertion, along with the weakness afterward, and some aren't even strong enough to get all the eggs out if there is too many.

Hun I am not an expert and honestly I don't have much idea of what is wrong with your girl except husbandry issues- ive only been owning chameleons for 2 months, though I have learned alot. I can just help with your husbandry and possible causes.

And order lighting online, the pet stores double the prices.
Yeah hind legs was all I was able to find as well, and yeah I don't think shedding was the problem either because she has shed so many times already with no problem, Ill look into getting her poop tested I know a really good 24hr vet near me. Thank you so much for the responses and I will definitely change the problems with husbandry asap. You're a god sent!! :D
 

JacksJill

Chameleon Enthusiast
Take all the information on your husbandry to the vet with you along with pictures of your cage and lights. Take a fresh fecal sample and keep it refrigerated or in a cooler with ice to the vets.
 

Ares05

Chameleon Enthusiast
Yeah hind legs was all I was able to find as well, and yeah I don't think shedding was the problem either because she has shed so many times already with no problem, Ill look into getting her poop tested I know a really good 24hr vet near me. Thank you so much for the responses and I will definitely change the problems with husbandry asap. You're a god sent!! :D
All I did was help a bit with the husbandry, the vet will hopefully know what she/he is doing and be able to help!
 

etho9

New Member
Agreed^ great advice.

Just wanted to say overdosing on D3 frequently presents as loss of motor control in random parts of the body.
Yeah I read up about it and the effects sound like this is what happened to her, do you know if this will be permanent or will go away in time?
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hey guys. So about 3 days ago my chameleon started to shed, the first day went fine but on the second day of shedding I noticed that she hadn't been using her left arm from about the elbow down and immediately was alarmed. I also noticed a slight discoloration on the effected area, I searched the web for a solution however I wasn't able to find a similar case. Pictures and additional info below. Thank you for your help!

INFO:
Species- Vailed Chameleon
Sex- Female
Age- about 9 months, been in my care since infantry (about 8 months)
Handling- almost never unless cage is being cleaned so 1 or 2 times a month
Feeding- Gets fed once a day, Mainly gut loaded crickets (gut loaded with Orange Cube Complete Cricket Diet and Cricket Quencher Calcium Fortified both by flunkers) but more recently she favors an assortment of worms how much do you feed her per feeding? She looks gravid already. Orange cubes an cricket quencher are not good foods or gut loads for crickets. I use dandelion greens, kale, collards, endive, escarole, etc and carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, and a small amount of fruit such as berries, melon, apples, pears, etc. A wider variety of insects would be good too....BSFL, roaches, silkworms, and once in a while, superworms and wax worms. I would feed her about 5 to 8 crickets every second or third day now.
Supplements- Just about everything I feed her is dusted in either RepCal Calcuim with D3 (Mon-Fri) or Zoo Meds Reptivite with D3 (Sat-Sun) I use RepCal phos free calcium powder dusted lightly on the insects at almost every feeding to help make up for the often poor ratio of calcium to phos found in most feeder insects. I dust twice a month lightly with a phos free calcium/D3 powder. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues so this gives her some and allows her to produce the rest from her exposure to the UVB. UVB light is safe as long as they can move in and out of it at will. I dust twice a month with Herptivite vitamin powder lightly . Beta carotene (proformed) source of vitamin A won't build up in the system like prEformed sources will so this leaves you in charge of the prEformed.
Watering- Thorough misting 2 times a day and I have a dripper which I put on just about every day for like 5 mins. I usually do see her drinking sometimes I don't.
Fecal Description- Brown coloration and usually well hydrated (watery), never been tested for parasites (feces are usually removed asap)
History- Nothing like this had happened before but she usually is on edge, if my hand goes close to her she typically starts to hiss, however since she has stopped using her arm, I've been inspecting it and she doesn't seem to mind me touching it.
Cage- "Zoo Med ReptiBreeze Open Air Screen Cage, Large, 18 x 18 x 36-Inches"
Lighting- Zoo Med Tropical UVB Heat Lighting Kit | Schedule: Turns on 7AM, turns off 7PM (hooked up to a timer) I use a long linear reptisun 5.0 tube UVB light and a regular incandescent household bulb for a basking light....wattage determined by temperature it creates in the basking area.

Temperature- Basking Temp: about 75°F (daytime) and around 67°F (nighttime) meausured with JEDEW Mini Hygrometer Thermometer
basking temperature should be in the low 80'sF IMHO.
Humidity- Average: 40%, moderated by misting, also measured with JEDEW Mini Hygrometer Thermometer
Plants- Some fake, some real, real ones have been purchased from a pet store, no fertilizers. for veileds I recommend using only real plants since they seem to nibble on them. They should be nontoxic and well washed... both sides of the leaves.
Placement- Cage sitting on a plastic bin, no more than a foot off the ground, not near any air vents however I do have a mini desk fan about four feet away from the cage which I occasionally put on
Geographically located on the East Coast of North America.

If there is any other additional info I can give please let me know I will let you know.
View attachment 254503View attachment 254504View attachment 254505

Her elbow definitely looks a little odd in the picture and to me her lower arm and foot look slightly swollen. Maybe gout? Vet can tell you that for sure...I'm not a vet....so I can onk
LH give you my best guess on some things.
 
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