Chameleon turning white.

Where has this gone. All me and @makkatfloof have done is try to help. You people won’t shut up about Petr Necas for 2 seconds to hear our advice. Just because we aren’t specialists, doesn’t mean we are “children”. All you people do is assume assume and assume. Why do you all get so mad about everything. You realize we were giving advice based on what has helped our chameleons.
 
Tiosk said:
Where has this gone. All me and @makkatfloof have done is try to help. You people won’t shut up about Petr Necas for 2 seconds to hear our advice. Just because we aren’t specialists, doesn’t mean we are “children”. All you people do is assume assume and assume. Why do you all get so mad about everything. You realize we were giving advice based on what has helped our chameleons.
Click to expand...

Well, for one I didn't assume either of you are in fact children. I did however say "since you want to ACT like a child" which is exactly what your "your point is....." comment was, childish. You can't "shut up for two seconds" to actually comprehend one of "alllll" the referenced links and realize you have interpreted the article incorrectly and are giving bad advise based on that interpretation.

Did you read the wiki link at all? That one was a joke!! Give your cham a bath literally. Horrible horrible advise! They are not bearded dragons or snakes. They don't "soak in a bath" to help anything.

You are assuming were are responding like we are because we are mad. None of us are responding in the way have because we are mad, it is because of BAD ADVISE being given and our passion for chams plain and simple. Your egos have out grown your britches and rather then listen to where you were wrong, why it is wrong and learn from the mistake you choose to act like a two year old. Seriously, I commend you both on trying to help. But, sometimes we ALL have to accept the fact we aren't always right and when SHOWN specifically what is wrong in the advise given learn from it and carry on growing in this hobby. We've all been there at one point or another as we grow with our chams.

I told you specifically the three mistakes that are in both of your comments and also said you weren't entirely wrong just wrong under these specific circumstances considering this cham has not even begun to shed. Again if the cham had shed and then had stuck shed then yes a shower would be a good idea to try following Petr's process of doing so. But, then you also need to look at the husbandry going on to try and pin point the underlying cause of a bad shed.

I am also well aware this thread has been going in circles and why I tagged @Decadancin with the comment that perhaps this thread has run its course.
 
And just because we don’t write super long posts and point out flaws in other people’s husbandry doesn’t mean we act like “children”.
 
Tiosk said:
We weren’t “wrong” about anything. We were just giving our input about what we think has helped our chameleons.
Click to expand...

:( , you're proving my point exactly.

Tiosk said:
And just because we don’t write super long posts and point out flaws in other people’s husbandry doesn’t mean we act like “children”.
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I'll keep this short for you, you are wrong and to stubborn to accept it. Happy cham keeping.
 
Alright, I’m done arguing with random people. All I did was try to help someone and now everyone hates me. So, screw this thread!
 
Tiosk said:
You just said I wasn’t wrong!
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I said neither of you were entirely wrong. If the cham had already shed and had stuck shed you were both mostly right. The part that keeps seeming to slip past as to why you were wrong IN this case is the shower for stuck shed and only stuck shed. It's not for a cham just beginning its shed cycle.

Tiosk said:
Alright, I’m done arguing with random people. All I did was try to help someone and now everyone hates me. So, screw this thread!
Click to expand...

I don't hate you nor do I believe any one that has posted in this thread hates you. Wanting to help AND being willing to learn go hand in hand. We all want what's best for our chams right? Thus we try to learn and read. Your cham is 18 months or so I saw? Have you not tried to learn as much as you can along the way? Something tells me you have done at least some reading along your path.
 
Tiosk said:
Ask anyone on this forum if showering helps chameleons shed. They will say “yes”.
Click to expand...

So ok, finally i got my point! can we add a little resumé?! ;)

-Not 100% of people say yes to "showering helps chameleons shed"

-All of us are experienced and got something to learn from each other

-Showering a chameleon can't help with a cham who doesnt actually need help for sheeding, this is just stressfull and dangerous in case the water is too hot or too cold

-Petr Necas, a CHAMELEON F$*$(#G EXPERT SUPER DUPER S*#&T SPECIALIST AND SOMETIME SEXY!!!! advice is to let the nature do the sheeding task, assuming the husbandry is ok

-I was piss because both of you jumping at me and yes this was.. a bit rude.. i invite you to re-read your message.. i still got no hard feeling

-I am a super duper s&#*t stubborn person.. but despite this i learn something today (ie, i learned how to get rid of shed if shed get stucked.. so btw all this post was not useless after all! :) )

BULLET POINT : we all got experience and we can be wrong.. I got experience and i can be wrong.. i donc my bunch of mistake with my poor chameleon! no dramma but i learned from each others!

Bullet point.. stubborn person never win.. and chameleon always suffering from stubborn attitude

SO!! finally can we just close this?! conclude than in this particular situation shower wasn't a good idea but can be a good idea on another situation?

Can we just hug each other and admit we can be wrong?

PS : i can be wrong.. maybe in 10 year we gonna learn than shower is the solution.. but for the moment i must admit all my melleri shed really faster the day i stop the shower (because yes.. i showering my melleri in the past based on the advice "melleri must have a long shower every morning" this was wrong one of my first melleri died too because he swallow to much of water in the shower i saw him in distress then died from probably water in lung.. so this is my personal experience with showering i wish my lost can help some of you .. RIP Captain Glie and sorry because this was my fault..
 
Look, all I’m gonna say is this.
I was giving advice that was given from my specialist, just as you were giving advice from yours.
Never downed Petr. I’ll look more into him.
But, I did nothing different than what you did. Suggest advice based off a specialist.

I never once said they NEED a shower or upped humidity. The upped humidity and shower helped the process along faster. And as anyone knows, any reptile’s shed bothers them. If I can help him with that in any way, I will.

I never wanted an argument. Never tried having one. I simply said I’d stick to what I know has worked and what I have been told by my specialist and somehow ended up here when I’ve multiple times stated, I didn’t want an argument and wasn’t stepping on anyone’s toes.
 
Look, we never gonna be agree with the shower part and now you know all my reason why, up too you to juge if your advice was good or bad to my opinion your advice was bad, but apak gonna be the only one to decide. I'm not gonna change my mind and I don't care if you don't but respect the fact I can give an advice too sometime the true is in the middle. Ps: I was also upset when you write chameleon specialist in capital letter.. maybe that was not your intention but this make me feel like :hey stupid.. listen! Again no hard feeling, just want you too understand why I was and why I am upset,if you want we can talk in pm too fix this together
 
Tiosk said:
I don’t care what Petr Necas says or does. I’m just giving my input about the topic
Click to expand...

makkatfloof said:
Just because I’m a new member on here doesn’t mean I’m new to this type of care.
And I’m pretty sure the definition of the word “negligent” has nothing to do with giving advice.
Click to expand...

Tiosk said:
Where has this gone. All me and @makkatfloof have done is try to help. You people won’t shut up about Petr Necas for 2 seconds to hear our advice. Just because we aren’t specialists, doesn’t mean we are “children”. All you people do is assume assume and assume. Why do you all get so mad about everything. You realize we were giving advice based on what has helped our chameleons.
Click to expand...

Tiosk said:
We weren’t “wrong” about anything. We were just giving our input about what we think has helped our chameleons.
Click to expand...

So, hopefully this will be a post to stop the bickering.

First off, for those who do not know Petr Necas, you may want to do some research about his experience. We can all learn more about things and there are many great sources out there. He has actually helped us here at the Forums with some details to ensure that the most accurate information is available to all of you.

Secondly, it is negligent to offer advice that can be detrimental to other keepers, even if that is not the intention. Now, that is not to say it will lead to major issues, but to argue the point that others are wrong because that is how you do it is not helping the OP with anything. Often experienced keepers will chime in with advice to give some better advice and get attacked for it. Some may not always do so with the most tact, but the advice isn't any less important.

You are giving advice on what has "helped" your chameleons, but are missing the point. Your chameleons should not need help shedding skin. Just because you are doing it doesn't mean that it is needed. I will admit, there are many threads on here that will advise raising humidity levels to help with this, and in certain situations I have even suggested some additional mistings for particularly difficult sheds, but something else is off that is causing those and that needs to be looked into.

"Still looks like dry skin to me. Keep the humidity up and consider putting him in the shower.
Face the shower head towards the wall and let the droplets hit him.
Sometimes, also, after a fresh shed, my boy will look like this as well until the next day. It’s good to make sure his skin is getting a lot of moisture."

A chameleon's skin does not need a lot of moisture. Especially in this situation, with a veiled, they are from semi-arid regions. Putting chameleons in a shower is mainly for extreme situations, and mainly for hydration, not shedding.

The original pictures that were posted were not the best, but in my opinion do not show signs of shedding. I see some signs of old shed still lingering, but as any veiled owner will likely admit, they are almost always shedding in one spot or another when they are older. I see what could be some signs of dehydration, but not definite from the pics. The eyes do look a bit sunken, but could be the angle, and I see what could be a stuck sperm plug.

@makkatfloof , you were spot on asking for the "How to ask for Help" to be filled out, but then just started giving advice. We don't know the age, what is being fed, supplements, lighting, etc.

Lastly, please do not take offense at any of what I am saying. I am not attacking anyone here, just trying to get the post on track and remind all that there is no "one" right answer. There may be a best course of action based on the information provided, and that is what we are trying to provide.
 
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