Chameleon turning white.

#41
Most of your links don't even have authors. One of them is a Wiki. You would benefit from learning how to find primary information from verifiable sources. All I'm saying is that you two new members are brigading against someone giving you informed advice straight from the mouth of the top chameleon expert in the world. But yeah, your vet probably knows more than someone who's devoted his entire life to chameleons, who has spent years in Yemen studying veileds. Plus, you're just talking down to a user with vastly more experience than you, and she doesn't deserve that. We hold our members to a higher standard of conduct than that.
Again, I just said my VET IS A CHAMELEON SPECIALIST.
How many times in a row do I have to repeat that?
And ohhhhhh one of my links was wiki. But we’re gonna ignore the other, what, four or five I’ve mentioned?
I’m not brigading anything. I JUST told her that I wasn’t meaning to step on her toes. I can’t speak for what happened between her and @Tiosk , but I definitely was not rude.
I have been told by other people on here as well to increase his humidity and have never once seen someone who said otherwise until now.
But again, why does it matter if what I suggested does indeed help my chameleon? Isn’t that the whole point? What makes our chameleons happy and healthy?
 
#43
Again, I just said my VET IS A CHAMELEON SPECIALIST.
How many times in a row do I have to repeat that?
And ohhhhhh one of my links was wiki. But we’re gonna ignore the other, what, four or five I’ve mentioned?
I’m not brigading anything. I JUST told her that I wasn’t meaning to step on her toes. I can’t speak for what happened between her and @Tiosk , but I definitely was not rude.
I have been told by other people on here as well to increase his humidity and have never once seen someone who said otherwise until now.
But again, why does it matter if what I suggested does indeed help my chameleon? Isn’t that the whole point? What makes our chameleons happy and healthy?
As new members I would refrain from giving advice.. leave it to the more experienced keepers its negligent of you.
 
#44
As new members I would refrain from giving advice.. leave it to the more experienced keepers its negligent of you.
Just because I’m a new member on here doesn’t mean I’m new to this type of care.
And I’m pretty sure the definition of the word “negligent” has nothing to do with giving advice.
 
#46
Just because I’m a new member on here doesn’t mean I’m new to this type of care.
And I’m pretty sure the definition of the word “negligent” has nothing to do with giving advice.
Excuse me. It's negligent for you to give information that is not 100% accurate to someone who is not looking for a beginners advice rather than asking here for advice from someone with years of experience regarding something they care for. So yes it is negligent. You are arguing with someone that has way more experience than you and I personally find that ignorant as well... you are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean you should give it out as advice to others looking for help.
 
#47
Excuse me. It's negligent for you to give information that is not 100% accurate to someone who is not looking for a beginners advice rather than asking here for advice from someone with years of experience regarding something they care for. So yes it is negligent. You are arguing with someone that has way more experience than you and I personally find that ignorant as well... you are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean you should give it out as advice to others looking for help.
I’m giving advice from my personal years of experience too
And advice that’s based off of a bunch of other research that I provided links in a separate post for as well.
It’s not so much an opinion as it is what I’ve seen as FACT.
And again, I’ll always give advice that my PERSONAL CHAMELEON SPECIALIST have given me.
 

Remkon

Chameleon Enthusiast
#52
Would of been so nice if this could have been a conversation with constructive criticism that would actually help OP .... After all we're all here to learn and improve husbandry...

I will just throw in here that if your husbandry is correct and your chameleon is healthy it will not need any aid in shedding, if he has issues with shedding it may be that your average husbandry needs adjusting... If that would mean increase or decrease humidity this will likely depend on your husbandry and on the species of chameleon.

I think the common advise to increase humidity is because a lot of people simply keep their animals to dry and a lot of problems come from that so most of us learn as a basic rule to 'hydrate, hydrate, hydrate' if there are issues.

Chameleon husbandry, well... reptile husbandry in general is still pretty much in it's infancy... We're growing, getting better tools and better supplements so maybe a lot of what people learned years ago needs to be re-visioned today.

So I don't think things are as black and white... It's important to give your chameleon sufficient wet times as well as sufficient dry times to much/less of one or the other could cause problems.

Was I politically correct enough?
Please rate my PC from 1 to 5 stars below:
 
#53
Would of been so nice if this could have been a conversation with constructive criticism that would actually help OP .... After all we're all here to learn and improve husbandry...

I will just throw in here that if your husbandry is correct and your chameleon is healthy it will not need any aid in shedding, if he has issues with shedding it may be that your average husbandry needs adjusting... If that would mean increase or decrease humidity this will likely depend on your husbandry and on the species of chameleon.

I think the common advise to increase humidity is because a lot of people simply keep their animals to dry and a lot of problems come from that so most of us learn as a basic rule to 'hydrate, hydrate, hydrate' if there are issues.

Chameleon husbandry, well... reptile husbandry in general is still pretty much in it's infancy... We're growing, getting better tools and better supplements so maybe a lot of what people learned years ago needs to be re-visioned today.

So I don't think things are as black and white... It's important to give your chameleon sufficient wet times as well as sufficient dry times to much/less of one or the other could cause problems.

Was I politically correct enough?
Please rate my PC from 1 to 5 stars below:
100% correct ;)

Same, but thanks for the advice, i'll try to do my best. Im getting a much bigger and not a glass terrarium the upcoming week, so everything is becoming more pleasant for him ^_^
That is a good news, 60% all the time is a bit too high to my opinion so getting a mesh enclosure shoud fix this problem, veiled dont need that much of humidity they are native from a med dry environnement (this is probably gonna speed up the shed too ;) !) How is he today?
 

dshuld

Chameleon Enthusiast
#54
Would of been so nice if this could have been a conversation with constructive criticism that would actually help OP .... After all we're all here to learn and improve husbandry...

I will just throw in here that if your husbandry is correct and your chameleon is healthy it will not need any aid in shedding, if he has issues with shedding it may be that your average husbandry needs adjusting... If that would mean increase or decrease humidity this will likely depend on your husbandry and on the species of chameleon.

I think the common advise to increase humidity is because a lot of people simply keep their animals to dry and a lot of problems come from that so most of us learn as a basic rule to 'hydrate, hydrate, hydrate' if there are issues.

Chameleon husbandry, well... reptile husbandry in general is still pretty much in it's infancy... We're growing, getting better tools and better supplements so maybe a lot of what people learned years ago needs to be re-visioned today.

So I don't think things are as black and white... It's important to give your chameleon sufficient wet times as well as sufficient dry times to much/less of one or the other could cause problems.

Was I politically correct enough?
Please rate my PC from 1 to 5 stars below:
I'll give you a 5 for that (y).

Would of been so nice if this could have been a conversation with constructive criticism that would actually help OP .... After all we're all here to learn and improve husbandry...

I will just throw in here that if your husbandry is correct and your chameleon is healthy it will not need any aid in shedding, if he has issues with shedding it may be that your average husbandry needs adjusting... If that would mean increase or decrease humidity this will likely depend on your husbandry and on the species of chameleon.
I couldn't agree more with that part in particular. I've not had to aid shedding any of mine with a shower yet. I will give credit of that fact to this site and its plethora of knowledge, reading several breeders no bs responses to others on fb and lastly but certainly not least, @Matt Vanilla Gorilla and @Teal Beauty.

Now then, though sometimes I have to interpret spellings for myself, Petr is one of my favorite people to read postings from like the one copied here. He is a very kind person and a fountain of knowledge on chams most of us here could only dream of having a portion of. He was in my state some time back for a study on Florida's population of "wild" chams and I wish I could've gone with him to pick his brain. For those of you dismissing him and his knowledge of chams, I am saddened by reading this. You are doing yourself and your chams a great disservice by doing so. That man has more passion for chams then I think anyone here could even try to express he has. So please, take the time to learn about him, what he has done for this community and continues to do for this community before dismissing him in such a manner as has been done in this thread.

I only saw it mentioned being used for raising humidity but, @Appak please DO NOT literally shower your cham. If you do decide to put your cham in the shower put it in a tree/ bush sitting in the shower and aim your shower head at the wall so the "mist" is what your cham gets. Try to get your water around 80 deg if at all possible. One thing to remember is warm water to us IS hot water to them and flying by the seat of your pants going off the feel of your skin for water temp could very well end up burning your cham causing more harm then good. When your cham is getting ready to shed you will be able to notice a haze developing as the tell tale sign of it. Soon after you'll get the "explosion" your cham signaled with the haze developing. I'm not ashamed to admit when Blue had his first shed with me I asked @Matt Vanilla Gorilla about it. Blue was far from my first reptile but he was my first cham. I got him as a "teenager" at 10 months old but I was still in the "new cham owner freak out mode" about the tiniest of changes I noticed in his first couple of weeks with us. Since then I've gone on to add 11 more to my collection in a "short" amount of time in the cham world of 8/ 9 months ago.

One thing I can't express enough with chams, don't ever feel like your questions are silly and never feel like you've researched all you need to. Occasionally I still have an odd ball question for Matt especially if it's something I've just read that has had many comments to the contrary in the past. Like showering vs not showering for example :rolleyes:. My use of Repashy products in my beginning is probably my greatest example of my own personal one I've had chats with Matt about in the past. Another one I brought up to him was the more "naturalistic" approach to hydration (which Petr was part of the group bringing this change in husbandry to the community btw (y)). Long winded I know but hopefully some of this was helpful.
 

VerucaSalt

Established Member
#55
@Tiosk @makkatfloof You two need to do a lot more research. Are you seriously comparing chameleon skin to to human skin? Scales and skin don't react the same way to water and, no, water does not "rejuvenate" the skin (even in humans). A basic understanding of biology will tell you that water actually strips skin of important oils.

Mawtyplant just gave you a quote from PETR NECAS. Now, I'm guessing you don't know who that is, seeing how rudely you treated her for her very helpful response. Petr Necas is one of THE foremost chameleon experts in the world. He has spent years living in/traveling through countries where chameleons are native species, has written books, and is one of the most respected experts in the field. You two are regurgitating information you've heard from other random people, not a literal expert. Showering is not a good solution. Chameleons' shed needs to dry and flake off. Water dampens it and makes this process difficult.
It's as thought saying moisturizing would have the same benefits to them, if our skins were actually comparable.
 

VerucaSalt

Established Member
#56
Would of been so nice if this could have been a conversation with constructive criticism that would actually help OP .... After all we're all here to learn and improve husbandry...

I will just throw in here that if your husbandry is correct and your chameleon is healthy it will not need any aid in shedding, if he has issues with shedding it may be that your average husbandry needs adjusting... If that would mean increase or decrease humidity this will likely depend on your husbandry and on the species of chameleon.

I think the common advise to increase humidity is because a lot of people simply keep their animals to dry and a lot of problems come from that so most of us learn as a basic rule to 'hydrate, hydrate, hydrate' if there are issues.

Chameleon husbandry, well... reptile husbandry in general is still pretty much in it's infancy... We're growing, getting better tools and better supplements so maybe a lot of what people learned years ago needs to be re-visioned today.

So I don't think things are as black and white... It's important to give your chameleon sufficient wet times as well as sufficient dry times to much/less of one or the other could cause problems.

Was I politically correct enough?
Please rate my PC from 1 to 5 stars below:
Absolutely
 
#57
Ok well instead of following random people’s advice, I’ll still follow my personal specialists. Thanks.
Y’all suggested from a specialist. I suggested from mine. That was constructive criticism. I was never rude or anything.
And another thing, I never said literally shower your chameleon. I explained how to do it as well.
From the very beginning I said I wasn’t stepping on anyone’s toes.
There is nothing wrong with my husbandry either. If I choose to follow my specialists advice to just be nice and help my chameleon along with a shed, I will.
I nursed my boy from his death bed. He was malnourished, starved, and completely unresponsive. I will not stand to be called negligent by people who are also, not specialists.
I’m leaving this website. Half the time when you ask for help, you instead get picked on for any little thing.
The only thing I need is my actual specialist.
There’s my bit of “constructive criticism”
 

dshuld

Chameleon Enthusiast
#58
Ok well instead of following random people’s advice, I’ll still follow my personal specialists. Thanks.
Y’all suggested from a specialist. I suggested from mine. That was constructive criticism. I was never rude or anything.
And another thing, I never said literally shower your chameleon. I explained how to do it as well.
From the very beginning I said I wasn’t stepping on anyone’s toes.
There is nothing wrong with my husbandry either. If I choose to follow my specialists advice to just be nice and help my chameleon along with a shed, I will.
I nursed my boy from his death bed. He was malnourished, starved, and completely unresponsive. I will not stand to be called negligent by people who are also, not specialists.
I’m leaving this website. Half the time when you ask for help, you instead get picked on for any little thing.
The only thing I need is my actual specialist.
There’s my bit of “constructive criticism”
o_O :wideyed:. Like @Mawtyplant , I wish you luck with your cham and say good bye but I'll leave this here first. I never called you negligent though someone else did. I never said there was specifically anything wrong with your husbandry because I don't know YOUR specific husbandry. It has been said multiple times across multiple threads if the cham is healthy there should be no need to "aid" in shedding. I also said I only saw it mentioned for raising humidity and if you mentioned how to specifically "shower" a cham I'm sorry I missed that. I stopped reading the pissing match you and the other person wanted to have with other members. To the best of my knowledge, I've never claimed to be a specialist of anything but, I do know how to do my research and honestly enjoy doing continuing research/ education rather then having a mindset so closed off to think I shouldn't . I am how ever glad you shared your experience with cb reptiles/ tortoise town so others can hopefully make a more informed decision. If it wasn't clear in the other thread with the "it's cool with me" comment, now you know (y).

I'll say it again, do your research on Petr. The man is far from some random specialist and has published at least four books I'm aware of dating back to at least 1997. I'll repeat this as well, you are doing yourself and your cham a great disservice dismissing his knowledge of the chams around the world. One of your links from the other thread, the reptifiles one you referenced, is from Petr actually. Not sure if you noticed but if not he says:

The key to a healthy shed is correct humidity, followed by good nutrition.
When a chameleon is preparing to shed, their color will become dull and they may lose their appetite. It will start rubbing against the cage décor in an effort to loosen the skin. They may also puff out their eyes, which looks alarming, but is no cause for concern unless it lasts for more than a day.
This is when you need to be extra diligent with keeping your chameleon hydrated. Misting more frequently, or turning on your fogger more often, can help. With correct humidity, your chameleon should be able to shed their skin without help.

Then he goes on to describe how to deal with stuck shed below that:

If you notice white, flaky pieces of stuck shed, soften the skin by misting or showering. Then wipe at the pieces with a moistened cotton swab. If they still don’t come off, resist the urge to pull at it with your fingers — this can injure your chameleon and is quite painful! Instead, continue humidity treatments until the shed has completely finished.
If your chameleon regularly experiences shedding problems despite extra moisture, they may have a dietary deficiency. Arcadia offers a supplement called Shed Support that can be dusted on feeder insects for a dose of vitamins and minerals targeted at skin health.
 

dshuld

Chameleon Enthusiast
#60
Your point is........
That it is a bit hypocritical to use Petr as a reference to prove your point then turn around and call him " some random specialist"? To use his material as a reference with out actually understanding he's being specific on when a "shower" May be appropriate is a bit of a concern. To reference his material and not understand he clearly says with Correct Humidity and Nutrition your cham should be able to shed on its own is also a bit of a concern.

But, since you want to act like a child and ask my point with my posts I'll add this, it is in deed irresponsible to tell some one to shower their cham with warm but not to warm water. How warm is warm but not to warm exactly?! Your warm, her warm, my warm and everyone elses warm in this thread is different so how warm is not to warm?

Were you at least adult enough to read what @Mawtyplant posted from Petr? My wife says water is warm to her around 101/102° where as for me water is warm around 83/ 85°. We know 98.6 is to to hot for a cham though may be comfortably warm to some of us. So we know my wife's warm would be excessively hot to my chams. Mine while closer is still a bit warm for a cham "shower". You two can keep acting like children, stroking each others egos while trolling members here but it is sad really. Most of the info the two of you shared wasn't entirely inaccurate IF the cham had retained shed. To just say warm but not to warm is irresponsible since that could have caused more problems then what @Appak is even dealing with considering the cham is not even shedding yet. You two aren't even looking for what the possible cause of the original problem would've been had the cham had stuck shed. I'll repeat what @Syreptyon to you earlier, you two need to do more research. Have fun trolling though by all means...

@Decadancin perhaps this thread has run its course?
 
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