Cham babysitter becomes cham owner. Cage change questions

[chambabysitter1]

Cham babysitter becomes Cham owner. Lot of questions. Feed me knowledge!

So as you can read in my last thread, my interest in chameleons has been piqued and I am interested in making the jump to ownership despite my initial traumatic experience with that poor girl.

Actually let me introduce myself, in fact ourselves. Both my GF and I will probably use this account seeing as how everything we do is a team effort anyways. We have been since the babysit thread.

We we're very interested in the panthers. We love their color variation, and the shape and size of the males are just epic. Epic!

So leftover from our poor sick girl we have her old cage (Elisa to the rescue, thank you so much, you are amazing). It has a glass backing and screened on 3 sides. Measures about 1' x 1' and 18" tall. I know a male panther will outgrow that thing pretty fast. So I plan on getting this as an upgrade.

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...een/-/24-x-24-x-48-inch-aluminum-screen-cage/

My question is, would these 2 cages be too large in transition from a juvenile to adult? Would I be better off with a slightly bigger Reptarium then upgrade to the Large aluminum? I would assume a bigger cage would be needed for a sunning cage.

What do you guys think?

 

[Syreptyon]

Hmm. I'm not sure about the 12x12x18 cage. It largely depends on the age of the panther you get, but I checked www.flchams.com and Mike recommends 18x18x36 for his 3-5 month olds it looks like. 12x12x18 seems pretty small to me. If you get a panther from Flchams, you can get an 18x18x36 cage free

As for the transition, I don't think you need more than two cages. When my veiled was a little over three months old, I made his new home a 24x24x48 and he transitioned perfectly. He loved the space. My main issue was feeding, but he learned to cup feed quickly and that makes it much easier!

Good luck!

 

[PITBULL]

IMO that transition size will be ok depending on the chams hunting ability if you plan on feeding free roaming crickets or if the cham is cup fed it will be no problem at all. I read the thread about your babysitting experience and it was a wonderful thing you have done and you should be proud of yourself. Your kind heart willingness to care for a cham will make any cham lucky to have you as their owner. Good luck hope all goes well.

 

[Titan]

Welcome by default to the forums The advice above is good, very good. & Panthers are great (at least the ones I own) Chams to own for their personality and color. I only would suggest a much larger cage for the future. As a Male Panther, like one I own can exceed 22 inch in length and Ill tell you I free range him. He is not happy in any cage as an adult. Some Chams are like people? Some like the closed in feel, and others with claustrophobia love the elbow room. So be prepared and just see how the Chameleon you buy, reacts to what you provide. Then you can react to his/her needs.

 

[chambabysitter1]

Welcome by default to the forums The advice above is good, very good. & Panthers are great (at least the ones I own) Chams to own for their personality and color. I only would suggest a much larger cage for the future, as a Male Panther. Like one I own can exceed 22 inch in length and Ill tell you I free range him. He is not happy in any cage as an adult. Some Chams are like people? Some like the closed in feel, and others with claustrophobia love the elbow room. So be prepared and just see how the Chameleon you buy, reacts to what you provide. Then you can react to his/her needs.

Excellent advice. I already have a nice corner of the room setup where he can get clear sunlight when the window is open. I suppose when he gets larger I can open the top up and let him go on his own accord where he wishes, granted he stays in his corner area. Free ranging is definitely an option at this point, but I want to be fully prepared before I take a little bugger on.

I want to try to get one young, just for the experience and fun of seeing one grow.
My options at this point are:

A. Keep a juvenile inside the small 12x12x18 cage, then upgrade to the 4 foot aluminum from LLLrep

B. Keep the juvenile in a cheaper reptarium. Larger in size so I can use it for a sunning cage too. Then buy the 4 footer from LLL as he grows.

C. Buy a reptarium for the juvenile and for a sunning cage. Free range it when of size. I can post pictures of the corner I have setup and you can tell me if I can work with it or not for a situation like that.

 

[Titan]

Well I normally would not reply so fast, But what you are planning is Great! Open the top to that cage when you see fit. and I'm pretty sure he/she will stay put. That is exactly what I see some happy Chams (the larger species) love to have. Comfort, seclusion, freedom, and a good loving owner! good luck And Yes GET A PANTHER!

 

[Titan]

You know your already on the right page in setup!!! Small sometimes if they are finiky eaters, and bigger for the strong. I like corner setups near a window, as It helps contain and seclude the Cham on 2 sides. With the abillity to still feel free on the other 2. The window if not in a strong sunlight (all day) situation is great and really helps with your Chameleons wellbeing, as mine love to sit and just enjoy looking outside even if there is 5 feet of snow outside, like there is here now! Also seek all the advice you can get on lighting and supplementation you can get from all those willing to help on these forums!

 

[chambabysitter1]

For a 2'x2' cage what size bulb would you reccomend? Keeping in mind I would use it for when the guy is small too.

Should the bulb cover the full 24 inches? Or just the fixture?

Speaking of fixtures, can I just use a normal cheaper tube florescent fixture from home depot instead of the special ones on the websites?

Thanks for the quick responses. It's almost like real time!

 

[Rocky]

As long as you dont have any other pets in the house free ranging is a good option. I would buy a larger cage for him as a baby. My veiled was in an 2x1.5x3.5 ft as a baby and he was fine in it. Some may say its harder for them to hunt, but my veiled was fine.

If you are planning on free ranging the smaller sunning cage would be great for him to go outside.

another cool chameleon species that is fun and great for free ranging is the Mellers chameleon. https://www.chameleonforums.com/cb-pics-thread-15414/index2.html thats some pics of them as baby's and getting a few adults. I've never owned one, but I know someone in town that has one and it free ranges everywhere and is similar to a cat. It will follow you around and climb up your leg... Completely different from my veiled (he would like to follow you around to eat you)

Kind of a weird way to get into chameleons, but atleast you are somewhere that you will get all the correct info, unfortunately many petstores have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to chameleons and many owners/chameleons have to suffer the consiquences.

 

[Rocky]

For a 2'x2' cage what size bulb would you reccomend? Keeping in mind I would use it for when the guy is small too.

Should the bulb cover the full 24 inches? Or just the fixture?

Speaking of fixtures, can I just use a normal cheaper tube florescent fixture from home depot instead of the special ones on the websites?

the size of the bulb would be fine, but you may need to lift it up a little higher. The main thing you would worry about is the basking lamp. You need another light in addition to the uv light that gives them heat. A younger chameleon needs to be cooler than an adult so a thermometer would be recommended.

good tips and general info on everything you need can be found here
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

its for veileds, but panthers and veileds are similar. Panthers require less heat and veileds can withstand more heat.

 

[nightcrawler]

i have an idea.... maybe you can adopt a former rescued chameleon that someone rehabilitated? keep the karma going around? eh?


and yes you can use the one at home depot. i got mind for like 10 bucks (18inch)

and with basking lights its not really the watt its the temp and distance.
you can have a 60 watt that is farther away have the same heat at the basking area as a 40 watt that is closer. these are all things youll have to figure out and mess with before you get you cham when your setting everything up.

 

[chambabysitter1]

Okay, as far as my basking light goes, I have some leftover equipment from the poor veiled female. The neighbors donated it to my new cause as a gesture of good will.

From what I see here, I have an Exo Terra Sun Glo 120v 60hz 75 watter. Would this run a little too hot for the guy? Can I just raise it up to decrease it's heat footprint?

I also have a Exo Terra Night Glo 120v 60hz 40w. This is what they used at night to keep her temps in range. Although it seems that night time temps here are just right ambient wise for the cham.

Next step, digital therms and humid.

 

[laurie]

First unless you leave the window open in the room with your cham, no heat should be needed at night. I let my guys(& girls) get down to 68 or 69 at night. You will have a screen on the window if you let the cham free range neat it right? My chams have their own bedroom, walkin closet and bathroom. Each of the three areas has trees for free roaming. In the bathroom I have 3 large fake trees and the chams love them. I have a ficus in the bedroom and a hibiscus tree with a plant light in the closet. I have 10 chams but the 3 small one don't free roam yet. All of my chams are in screen cages. I buy them at LLLreptile from the site you looked at. I will try to figure out how to post pictures to show you my set up. Brad or Dave Weldon can give you expert advice, as can a lot of others on this forum. I know my setup are probably not as good as theirs.

Have you looked at the http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
site? Brad did a truely wonderful description on explaining step by step how to prepare prior to bring your new cham home. Panthers are a lot like veiled so most of the information still applies.A good book on chams is "Chameleons - Their Care and Breeding" By Linda J. Davison available on the forum bookstore.


My last bit of advice is ask questions or search the threads for the information you need & look at the classified ad for chameleons for sale and buy from one of the local breeders, there are about a million in Southern Cal. Also call Dr Tom Greek's office as he has an open house soon and see if you can go meet him before you need him.

Best of Luck, you are off to a good start.

 

[chambabysitter1]

Thank you very much Laurie. Doing what I can to make a happy chameleon here. There will be a screen on my window, I will entertain the idea of free range when I have a larger adult on my hands.

So here is my shopping list so far from LLL and Home Depot:

- 65 gal reptarium 28" x 16.5" x 30". This isn't too big for a juvenile is it? I figure it's a great size for an outside basking cage. I would upgrade to the aluminum 4 footer when he is of size. Love the look of that one better anyways.

- Reptisun 5.0 bulb, perhaps 20 inches or so, should I go longer? Am I better off finding a fixture from home depot or should I just go ahead and get one here?

- Living Plant, probably ficus or something.

- Fake vines to supplement plant, any brand reccomendations? Or am I better off just using rubber coated wiring?

- Thermometer and Hydrometer. I already have a laser thermometer to make spot checking an ease. For something more permanent I was going to go with a digital thermometer and humidity indicator inside.

I have what seems like an efficient basking light. All I'm missing is a chameleon and some food.

 

[PITBULL]

I would go with the 24" so you won't have to upgrade the fixture later when you get the larger enclosure. the 65 is good for a juvenile, maybe to big for a baby but not for a juvenile. couldn't remember, what are you doing as far as water/misting?

 

[chambabysitter1]

I would go with the 24" so you won't have to upgrade the fixture later when you get the larger enclosure. the 65 is good for a juvenile, maybe to big for a baby but not for a juvenile. couldn't remember, what are you doing as far as water/misting?

I haven't actually said yet, but thank you for asking. I want every base covered 100% before I even begin to purchase 1.

I have a spray bottle here, but I was thinking about getting something with a finer mist to it, such as the hand pump mister that has been reccomended.

I would also use a homemade dripper into the plant. Pinhole in a bottle style.

Would this be sufficient until I can upgrade into a mist king or an automated DIY setup?

What about my artificial vines to flesh out the plant?

 

[PITBULL]

I personally would go for the fake vines. As of right now I use a hand pump mister from home depot 3 bux cheaper than petsmart and better quality and seems to hold more water if i'm not mistaken. I will definately need to upgrade to an auto mister when the next 2 chams arrive TODAY lol. I have the time and patience to hand mist what I have for now. If you are getting only 1 cham and can/will commit to a regular misting schedule then you might be better off with the handmister, other wise go for the automister. And I use a regular drinking water bottle with the pinhole. I prefer using the bottle because you can regulate the drip (not much) just by screwing/unscrewing the top according to your needs but better than a free flowing deli cup which is unregulated. You are definately on the right track.

 

[chambabysitter1]

Looks like my shopping list is really wrapping up here.

Having trouble finding the correct fixtures on homedepot.com, are they easy enough to find or should I just go ahead and get one from LLL? They aren't that expensive, I'm just trying to cut corners here.

For a 10 dollar loss, that's not much of a corner cut, might as well get one here.

What do you and your real time responses think PITBULL? hahaha

 

[PITBULL]

lol right now i'm on a leave of absence because my father passed away 2 weeks ago but I go back to work tonight. I'm a detetion officer for my local police department. I guess I'll get to bed since I have 3 hours to sleep till I have to bring my son to school. Anyways back to the subject. How soon are you looking to make a commitment to chams? Have you decided which one you are planning on getting one panther veiled? or 2 or 3......lol For a beginner I would suggest a 4-6 month panther. I admit I'm addicted to animals and tend to overdo it. 3 pitbulls 1 chihuahua 1 cat indoor pond full of fish and 4 cham (around 10am will be 6 chams lol )

 

[Rocky]

What about my artificial vines to flesh out the plant?

I use the fake vines that you buy from walmart. They are cheap and with bigger leaves you dont really need to worry about a chameleon eating them. (thats the reason most people stay away from them)

Plant wise I would go with a schleffera(umbrella plant), Hibiscus(when it flowers the chameleon will love to eat the flowers and they are good for them), or Ficus. If your chameleon is a muncher on the leaves you may want to get 2 plants and switch them out every 2 weeks or so, that way one doesn't die in there. I lost a hibiscus because my chameleon ate it all up.