Can you help me identify?

[StarCham]

So I made a pretty bad mistake. I am new to chameleons, I only have a veiled one and I wanted a second small species. I was thinking of a carpet chameleon but I wasn’t able to find any. So I was reading about the dwarf Fischer chameleon and I though “well, that sounds like a smaller and pretty cool one” and I found that them pretty easily online. I even read a few threads from here and said “why not”. Well, I didn’t think that question long enough and purchased one. When I asked for the aprox age I was told “we don’t know, he was wild caught so we can’t tell”. Lots of things went through my head, from my feeling of being unethical to take an animal from his habitat to the fact that they can have a ton of parasites and the fact that I probably won’t be able to give him the best life no matter how much research I do. I immediately wanted to cancel the purchase (in less than half an hour from purchasing) and I was told the were already in the process of shipping so it couldn’t be reversed. I was pretty upset but so today the little guy arrived. I wonder, is it the right thing to try to keep him and give him the best life I possibly can? But to achieve this, since there isn’t a lot of information and it seems there’s a few similar species, I wanted to know if I could have help identifying this guy.
Thank you

 

[Sonny13]

Hi and welcome.
It looks like a male Kinyongia Boehmei, you will find some information here under that name.
About your question is it ethical, well, he can’t go back to his natural habitat, that’s Kenya, therewith it would be unethical to not give him the best life he can get in captivity.
Because he’s WC, a fecal test for parasites and others is a must. He looks at first glance pretty healthy. What I can tell is they need a nightly temperature drop of at least 10* because they’re a montane species, and that’s really imported!! I added the care sheet from chameleon academy.

It’s an absolute fun species to own and it's very very active with lots of different coloring, however they need some extra attention regarding husbandry.
Looking at your pictures I can see things I think need to be changed to give this fella the best possible life. If you please could fill out the husbandry review form, we can eventually guide you through this proces.

Here you go, just copy paste and fill it out please.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Chameleoking]

WOW!! He is AWESoME!! Post more pics anytime. LOL.

 

[MissSkittles]

Beautiful cham! Just the fact that you are here and looking how to give him the best life tells me that you are going to take great care of him.

 

[StarCham]

Thank you so much for the encouragement, you guys are awesome!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - I think Kinyongia Boehmei. He is WC so I don't know the age. Male. I've had him for only a few hours.
• Handling - Never, unless necessary.
• Feeding - He is new so I am not sure what he will be eating, but I plan on trying super worms, crickets and dubias, all gutloaded.
• Supplements - Flukers without D3 calcium. I powder the insects on it.
• Watering - I have a dripper, I hand mist for now but might get an automatic mister and run it twice a day when lights are out. I read a fogger at night might be good for this species and while I don't have one now I might consider using one.
• Fecal Description - I haven't seen any, but he JUST arrived. I plan on have him tested, especially since he is WC.
• History - I don't subscribe to getting WC animals, unless for breeding but this was a (happy?) mistake

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - I was under the impression that he'd be a lot smaller so I set up a glass vertical terrarium thinking of keeping the humid high but it is too small (I think it's 18 x 18 x 24). This week I will receive a bigger enclosure and it will be a mesh 24x18x36
• Lighting - 12 hs schedule. Basking zoo med 75w. Uvb Zilla T8
• Temperature - Daytime ~75, basking ~82, nighttime ~65 (California heat, while I do have my AC at 68F at home, I have troubles cooling off the enclosures at night)
• Humidity - Aiming for 60/70% and >90 at night. I am going to switch enclosures soon so I will use mister/fogger as needed. I have digital thermometer/hygrometers in different spots in the enclosure.
• Plants - At this very moment, because I'm quarantining the guy I have all fake plants that can't be ripped off but soon I will move him to his enclosure with all live plants. Photos among others, I can't remember the name, I usually go to Home Depot or Lowes and if I see a plant I like, I google if it's ok for chameleons and wash it, change the dirt to organic and so on.
• Placement - The cage is around 3ft from the floor. Not high traffic, fans or vents.
• Location - San Diego, California

Current Problem - I don't have a problem, I would like to confirm if he is a Kinyongia Boehmei or Tavetana and I don't think he could be a multituberculata but like I said, I would like to know. I will be adding more pictures, let me know if you need a specific one.

 

[Sonny13]

Thanks for your reply, hereby my input maybe @snitz427 and @dinomom can jump in.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - I think Kinyongia Boehmei. He is WC so I don't know the age. Male. I've had him for only a few hours. He's definitely a K. Boehmei
• Handling - Never, unless necessary. I never handle mine because he's really small and fast. Chance he'll fall of me is to risky.
• Feeding - He is new so I am not sure what he will be eating, but I plan on trying super worms, crickets and dubias, all gutloaded. Mine is pretty picky and only eats green bottle flies, small crickets (size 4) and now also small locusts. Flies they like the most, they love fast moving feeders.
• Supplements - Flukers without D3 calcium. I powder the insects on it.
• Watering - I have a dripper, I hand mist for now but might get an automatic mister and run it twice a day when lights are out. I read a fogger at night might be good for this species and while I don't have one now I might consider using one. Twice a day misting is okay, I do the same. Fogger is recommended, all 3 of us are using one. Scheduled for 15 min per hour for 6 till 8 hours a night. Also noticed a small fan works great, to create some airflow. They will seek it up for their sleeping position, at least mine does.
• Fecal Description - I haven't seen any, but he JUST arrived. I plan on have him tested, especially since he is WC. Is mentioned this is recommend.
• History - I don't subscribe to getting WC animals, unless for breeding but this was a (happy?) mistake Well, it happened so make the best out of it. It's an unchangeable situation. Great you came here, for some help.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - I was under the impression that he'd be a lot smaller so I set up a glass vertical terrarium thinking of keeping the humid high but it is too small (I think it's 18 x 18 x 24). This week I will receive a bigger enclosure and it will be a mesh 24x18x36 During the day, I let the humidity drop and I'm using a mixed enclosure, from glass 1/3 bottom part and screen 2/3 upper part. 24x18x36 is a good size.
• Lighting - 12 hs schedule. Basking zoo med 75w. Uvb Zilla T8 We all use only UVB and a plant led light (in my case from Arcadia the T5 6% and Jungle dawn), then there's no need for a basking light. They react very quickly at heat and a 75w basking light will overheat them. I would change the basking light for a plant led light (6.500lumen)
• Temperature - Daytime ~75, basking ~82, nighttime ~65 (California heat, while I do have my AC at 68F at home, I have troubles cooling off the enclosures at night) Nightime 65 is the minimum, 50-55 would be better
• Humidity - Aiming for 60/70% and >90 at night. I am going to switch enclosures soon so I will use mister/fogger as needed. I have digital thermometer/hygrometers in different spots in the enclosure. Should be good
• Plants - At this very moment, because I'm quarantining the guy I have all fake plants that can't be ripped off but soon I will move him to his enclosure with all live plants. Photos among others, I can't remember the name, I usually go to Home Depot or Lowes and if I see a plant I like, I google if it's ok for chameleons and wash it, change the dirt to organic and so on. Good idea about quarantine enclosure and building slowly the new one, I would suggest go for full bioactive densely planted. Because they use their full enclosure. here's mine (it's overkill, i know ) https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/project-royal-penthouse-suite-ranjo.183628/
• Placement - The cage is around 3ft from the floor. Not high traffic, fans or vents.
• Location - San Diego, California

Current Problem - I don't have a problem, I would like to confirm if he is a Kinyongia Boehmei (99% certain it is, due its spikes on his back) or Tavetana and I don't think he could be a multituberculata but like I said, I would like to know. I will be adding more pictures, let me know if you need a specific one.

For more questions, please let us know. I know many over here, would love to own this species, so consider yourself lucky with this unfortunate happening

 

[Thatcher]

Beautiful cham! Just the fact that you are here and looking how to give him the best life tells me that you are going to take great care of him.

That's what my parents said! Wait...

 

[Snuits]

He's so cute. I think you can give him an amazing life! I can't wait to see your journey. ♡

 

[dinomom]

Thanks for your reply, hereby my input maybe @snitz427 and @dinomom can jump in.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - I think Kinyongia Boehmei. He is WC so I don't know the age. Male. I've had him for only a few hours. He's definitely a K. Boehmei
• Handling - Never, unless necessary. I never handle mine because he's really small and fast. Chance he'll fall of me is to risky.
• Feeding - He is new so I am not sure what he will be eating, but I plan on trying super worms, crickets and dubias, all gutloaded. Mine is pretty picky and only eats green bottle flies, small crickets (size 4) and now also small locusts. Flies they like the most, they love fast moving feeders.
• Supplements - Flukers without D3 calcium. I powder the insects on it.
• Watering - I have a dripper, I hand mist for now but might get an automatic mister and run it twice a day when lights are out. I read a fogger at night might be good for this species and while I don't have one now I might consider using one. Twice a day misting is okay, I do the same. Fogger is recommended, all 3 of us are using one. Scheduled for 15 min per hour for 6 till 8 hours a night. Also noticed a small fan works great, to create some airflow. They will seek it up for their sleeping position, at least mine does.
• Fecal Description - I haven't seen any, but he JUST arrived. I plan on have him tested, especially since he is WC. Is mentioned this is recommend.
• History - I don't subscribe to getting WC animals, unless for breeding but this was a (happy?) mistake Well, it happened so make the best out of it. It's an unchangeable situation. Great you came here, for some help.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - I was under the impression that he'd be a lot smaller so I set up a glass vertical terrarium thinking of keeping the humid high but it is too small (I think it's 18 x 18 x 24). This week I will receive a bigger enclosure and it will be a mesh 24x18x36 During the day, I let the humidity drop and I'm using a mixed enclosure, from glass 1/3 bottom part and screen 2/3 upper part. 24x18x36 is a good size.
• Lighting - 12 hs schedule. Basking zoo med 75w. Uvb Zilla T8 We all use only UVB and a plant led light (in my case from Arcadia the T5 6% and Jungle dawn), then there's no need for a basking light. They react very quickly at heat and a 75w basking light will overheat them. I would change the basking light for a plant led light (6.500lumen)
• Temperature - Daytime ~75, basking ~82, nighttime ~65 (California heat, while I do have my AC at 68F at home, I have troubles cooling off the enclosures at night) Nightime 65 is the minimum, 50-55 would be better
• Humidity - Aiming for 60/70% and >90 at night. I am going to switch enclosures soon so I will use mister/fogger as needed. I have digital thermometer/hygrometers in different spots in the enclosure. Should be good
• Plants - At this very moment, because I'm quarantining the guy I have all fake plants that can't be ripped off but soon I will move him to his enclosure with all live plants. Photos among others, I can't remember the name, I usually go to Home Depot or Lowes and if I see a plant I like, I google if it's ok for chameleons and wash it, change the dirt to organic and so on. Good idea about quarantine enclosure and building slowly the new one, I would suggest go for full bioactive densely planted. Because they use their full enclosure. here's mine (it's overkill, i know ) https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/project-royal-penthouse-suite-ranjo.183628/
• Placement - The cage is around 3ft from the floor. Not high traffic, fans or vents.
• Location - San Diego, California

Current Problem - I don't have a problem, I would like to confirm if he is a Kinyongia Boehmei (99% certain it is, due its spikes on his back) or Tavetana and I don't think he could be a multituberculata but like I said, I would like to know. I will be adding more pictures, let me know if you need a specific one.

For more questions, please let us know. I know many over here, would love to own this species, so consider yourself lucky with this unfortunate happening

Adding to this my care, since I am in Orange CA. I also have to use AC at night, I set it on 70 and then I use a Repticooler (get from Ken's Fish) which incorporates a fan and reduces temp to about 64-65 near it-and that is where he sleeps. Definitely a fogger at night and I use the same schedule as Sonny. In winter we do not use the heat so he is happiest then

Mine likes small silks and dubias, crickets when I rarely have small ones, he gets lots of BSF, but yes his favorite is flies. I get green bottle flies from Josh's Frogs. He will NEVER be big enough not to choke on a superworm.

Mine is wild caught as well (actually they are farm raised so not quite as bad) but nonetheless they are very food-motivated and he runs out from wherever he is when I open the door, to see what I have.

As far as plants, these guys are so light that they do not disrupt plant growth and offer a nice opportunity for a beautiful enclosure. Attached a pic of mine before it grew in.

My thought when I got him is all I could think of was someone shoving him into a Chameleon Kit set up and treating him like a veiled and how he would suffer. I knew he would be challenging and told myself if I could give him even a year of quality life I would be happy. Now that I have experience with him I expect many more and am so glad I made the choice.

 

[Beman]

Make sure if you have other chams, that this one and anything you use for it is quarantined from other chams. Fecal test is a priority you need to make sure that it is clean and if it is not you want to treat and clean appropriately for the parasite. Nothing should be cross contaminated in the mean time until fecals start coming back totally clean. Depending on the parasite this may involve a few months of getting fecals after treatment to ensure the cham is totally clear.

 

[Sonny13]

Adding to this my care, since I am in Orange CA. I also have to use AC at night, I set it on 70 and then I use a Repticooler (get from Ken's Fish) which incorporates a fan and reduces temp to about 64-65 near it-and that is where he sleeps. Definitely a fogger at night and I use the same schedule as Sonny. In winter we do not use the heat so he is happiest then

Mine likes small silks and dubias, crickets when I rarely have small ones, he gets lots of BSF, but yes his favorite is flies. I get green bottle flies from Josh's Frogs. He will NEVER be big enough not to choke on a superworm.

Mine is wild caught as well (actually they are farm raised so not quite as bad) but nonetheless they are very food-motivated and he runs out from wherever he is when I open the door, to see what I have.

As far as plants, these guys are so light that they do not disrupt plant growth and offer a nice opportunity for a beautiful enclosure. Attached a pic of mine before it grew in.

My thought when I got him is all I could think of was someone shoving him into a Chameleon Kit set up and treating him like a veiled and how he would suffer. I knew he would be challenging and told myself if I could give him even a year of quality life I would be happy. Now that I have experience with him I expect many more and am so glad I made the choice.

Great setup and he's on his morning UVB 5 minute dose

 

[DonKeesh]

Where did you order him from?

 

[StarCham]

Where did you order him from?

I don't want to sound mean, but I wouldn't want to promote the place where they sell WC. I mean I have nothing against people who keep WC, but I just don't want to promote it. You can find it with a quick Google, though.

 

[StarCham]

Great setup and he's on his morning UVB 5 minute dose

Orange County, so you get me! I read in some places that fans were not ok so I was a little confused about this. I will have to read more and see what I can find to cool it down. Winter is around the corner and I like my house to be cool, so I think that will help too.

 

[StarCham]

Make sure if you have other chams, that this one and anything you use for it is quarantined from other chams. Fecal test is a priority you need to make sure that it is clean and if it is not you want to treat and clean appropriately for the parasite. Nothing should be cross contaminated in the mean time until fecals start coming back totally clean. Depending on the parasite this may involve a few months of getting fecals after treatment to ensure the cham is totally clear.

Yes, absolutely. I have everything separate. I was wondering what's the best protocol? A different room? A certain distance? Right now since I have him in a glass cage, I have them in a very open space, separated by several meters. Is this ok? How far should they be? I am waiting for the ver to be back on Sunday.

 

[StarCham]

Adding to this my care, since I am in Orange CA. I also have to use AC at night, I set it on 70 and then I use a Repticooler (get from Ken's Fish) which incorporates a fan and reduces temp to about 64-65 near it-and that is where he sleeps. Definitely a fogger at night and I use the same schedule as Sonny. In winter we do not use the heat so he is happiest then

Mine likes small silks and dubias, crickets when I rarely have small ones, he gets lots of BSF, but yes his favorite is flies. I get green bottle flies from Josh's Frogs. He will NEVER be big enough not to choke on a superworm.

Mine is wild caught as well (actually they are farm raised so not quite as bad) but nonetheless they are very food-motivated and he runs out from wherever he is when I open the door, to see what I have.

As far as plants, these guys are so light that they do not disrupt plant growth and offer a nice opportunity for a beautiful enclosure. Attached a pic of mine before it grew in.

My thought when I got him is all I could think of was someone shoving him into a Chameleon Kit set up and treating him like a veiled and how he would suffer. I knew he would be challenging and told myself if I could give him even a year of quality life I would be happy. Now that I have experience with him I expect many more and am so glad I made the choice.

You are so right. Right now that I am here, I will do the best of the situation. In fact after reading all of you guys comments, I feel pretty happy to have this little guy. I thought about the bioactive, but I don't know a lot about it. Can you do it on a mesh enclosure? I mean, the bottom is mesh and I could do something around it, in order to have the substrate enclosed and so on, but I mean, would springtails stay inside the mesh? If you have some info about this, I'd very much appreciate it!

 

[StarCham]

Thanks for your reply, hereby my input maybe @snitz427 and @dinomom can jump in.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - I think Kinyongia Boehmei. He is WC so I don't know the age. Male. I've had him for only a few hours. He's definitely a K. Boehmei
• Handling - Never, unless necessary. I never handle mine because he's really small and fast. Chance he'll fall of me is to risky.
• Feeding - He is new so I am not sure what he will be eating, but I plan on trying super worms, crickets and dubias, all gutloaded. Mine is pretty picky and only eats green bottle flies, small crickets (size 4) and now also small locusts. Flies they like the most, they love fast moving feeders.
• Supplements - Flukers without D3 calcium. I powder the insects on it.
• Watering - I have a dripper, I hand mist for now but might get an automatic mister and run it twice a day when lights are out. I read a fogger at night might be good for this species and while I don't have one now I might consider using one. Twice a day misting is okay, I do the same. Fogger is recommended, all 3 of us are using one. Scheduled for 15 min per hour for 6 till 8 hours a night. Also noticed a small fan works great, to create some airflow. They will seek it up for their sleeping position, at least mine does.
• Fecal Description - I haven't seen any, but he JUST arrived. I plan on have him tested, especially since he is WC. Is mentioned this is recommend.
• History - I don't subscribe to getting WC animals, unless for breeding but this was a (happy?) mistake Well, it happened so make the best out of it. It's an unchangeable situation. Great you came here, for some help.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - I was under the impression that he'd be a lot smaller so I set up a glass vertical terrarium thinking of keeping the humid high but it is too small (I think it's 18 x 18 x 24). This week I will receive a bigger enclosure and it will be a mesh 24x18x36 During the day, I let the humidity drop and I'm using a mixed enclosure, from glass 1/3 bottom part and screen 2/3 upper part. 24x18x36 is a good size.
• Lighting - 12 hs schedule. Basking zoo med 75w. Uvb Zilla T8 We all use only UVB and a plant led light (in my case from Arcadia the T5 6% and Jungle dawn), then there's no need for a basking light. They react very quickly at heat and a 75w basking light will overheat them. I would change the basking light for a plant led light (6.500lumen)
• Temperature - Daytime ~75, basking ~82, nighttime ~65 (California heat, while I do have my AC at 68F at home, I have troubles cooling off the enclosures at night) Nightime 65 is the minimum, 50-55 would be better
• Humidity - Aiming for 60/70% and >90 at night. I am going to switch enclosures soon so I will use mister/fogger as needed. I have digital thermometer/hygrometers in different spots in the enclosure. Should be good
• Plants - At this very moment, because I'm quarantining the guy I have all fake plants that can't be ripped off but soon I will move him to his enclosure with all live plants. Photos among others, I can't remember the name, I usually go to Home Depot or Lowes and if I see a plant I like, I google if it's ok for chameleons and wash it, change the dirt to organic and so on. Good idea about quarantine enclosure and building slowly the new one, I would suggest go for full bioactive densely planted. Because they use their full enclosure. here's mine (it's overkill, i know ) https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/project-royal-penthouse-suite-ranjo.183628/
• Placement - The cage is around 3ft from the floor. Not high traffic, fans or vents.
• Location - San Diego, California

Current Problem - I don't have a problem, I would like to confirm if he is a Kinyongia Boehmei (99% certain it is, due its spikes on his back) or Tavetana and I don't think he could be a multituberculata but like I said, I would like to know. I will be adding more pictures, let me know if you need a specific one.

For more questions, please let us know. I know many over here, would love to own this species, so consider yourself lucky with this unfortunate happening

Now that you say so, I feel pretty lucky! Thank you so much Sonny for all this valuable information. I will follow every note you made.

 

[DonKeesh]

I don't want to sound mean, but I wouldn't want to promote the place where they sell WC. I mean I have nothing against people who keep WC, but I just don't want to promote it. You can find it with a quick Google, though.

@StarCham Can u dm me the name? I am trying to compile a list of WC species available to the hobby for breeding project candidates.

Thanks!

 

[Beman]

Yes, absolutely. I have everything separate. I was wondering what's the best protocol? A different room? A certain distance? Right now since I have him in a glass cage, I have them in a very open space, separated by several meters. Is this ok? How far should they be? I am waiting for the ver to be back on Sunday.

Technically most keep wild caught chams in a totally different room. And they do not use anything on one that they would for the other set up. This means everything including the feeder cup and cleaning stuff. Everything is separate. Reason for this is that coccidia is common in wild caught chams and it very very hard to get rid of. Cross contamination can easily happen when you clean fecal from one cage and move to the other cage without washing your hands really well and if you use the same bucket etc between them. So just be really cautious what your doing. Contact from one to the other is what your watching out for.

 

[Sonny13]

Orange County, so you get me! I read in some places that fans were not ok so I was a little confused about this. I will have to read more and see what I can find to cool it down. Winter is around the corner and I like my house to be cool, so I think that will help too.

It was a bit an insider joke (which you will notice within shortness of time), they tend to seek for extreme uvb exposure for a few minutes per day. That will be the only time they bask, the rest of the day they’re roaming around like crazy.