Butterworm

[adrouin]

I really DON'T want to feed my panther a staple of crickets. They escape, are hard to catch, and smell..you all know! I see that a lot of people like to feed silkworms as a staple. I don't have the time to raise silks and I am willing to pay the extra few dollars to use butterworms. Seeing as they have more calcium then silkworms I shouldn't have to dust, right? Do butterworms even make a good staple? I just ordered 100 for 15 dollars (shipping included). I couldn't resist, I just hope My Guy likes them!! have you guys had any success with them? I could get use to having My Guy bugs smell like fruit, and being able to store them for 3+ months.

 

[ridgebax1]

Butter worms generally are not good as a staple because of the fat content; it is not terrible (like supers or mealies) but still not a good staple; actually no soft bodied insect should be used as a staple; chams need the fiber from the shells of insects bodies; if you don't like crickets you can try roaches; I keep 1000 crickets at a time with little to no smell. I cut the bottom out of the bin and replaced it with aluminum screening; the frass falls through onto another lid so it can be emptied frequently. No smell!

 

[Dagreek]

I use Phoenix worms as a staple. My chams love em and their extremely high in calcium.

 

[xephyr17]

Roaches are a great alternative and Butterworms are pretty good too though

 

[adrouin]

Roaches are a no go. No way no how. When I say stable I don't mean 100% of his diet. Are silk worms more of a treat then? From what I have found says butters are about 5% fat and silkies are about 10% fat. Also I thought supers were ok as part of a diet as long as they are gut loaded.

 

[xephyr17]

Roaches are a no go. No way no how. When I say stable I don't mean 100% of his diet. Are silk worms more of a treat then? From what I have found says butters are about 5% fat and silkies are about 10% fat. Also I thought supers were ok as part of a diet as long as they are gut loaded.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/nutritional-value-insects-132092/ is a post I laid out a little while ago. It should give you a good idea on what the main insects are for feeding... I add in new ones every now and then, too, so it'll get into the more rare items of feeding eventually.

I use all of those items to feed my chams. Some more often than others. It is true, you must have some chitin (hard shell) in the diet of a chameleon for him to have the best diet. So you either need to use roaches, superworms, crickets or otherwise. But those are honestly your best options.

And honestly, as gross as most people think dubia roaches are, they're actually some of the nicest ones out there... they don't bite and they can't fly... so they really aren't that bad

I'm starting my own colony pretty soon. Gonna have a big ol' box of 'em! My girlfriend is in for a big surprise

 

[adrouin]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/nutritional-value-insects-132092/ is a post I laid out a little while ago. It should give you a good idea on what the main insects are for feeding... I add in new ones every now and then, too, so it'll get into the more rare items of feeding eventually.

I use all of those items to feed my chams. Some more often than others. It is true, you must have some chitin (hard shell) in the diet of a chameleon for him to have the best diet. So you either need to use roaches, superworms, crickets or otherwise. But those are honestly your best options.

And honestly, as gross as most people think dubia roaches are, they're actually some of the nicest ones out there... they don't bite and they can't fly... so they really aren't that bad



I'm starting my own colony pretty soon. Gonna have a big ol' box of 'em! My girlfriend is in for a big surprise

It's not so much the flying or biting. It's the, "if one of these escapes it's going to be alive on my house for the next 6 months" crickets escape and live for a week or so. Still, I don't like crickets but I do plan on getting a couple dozen a every week to add in to his diet. So right now I'm feeding crickets, black soldier fly larvae, superworms, and will be introducing butterworms this week. I dust minimally because I can only get him to eat anything dusted first thing in the morning, even then once he realize his food has vitamins on it he doesn't eat them. I've had crickets with dust stay in his cage for days with out him eatting. To make up for this I take his cage outside in the sun everyday (half of the cage in shaded).
Back to my original question
So based on the nutritional info, butterworms are actually better than silkworms, when also given with an insect with a hard chitin shell.

 

[xephyr17]

It's not so much the flying or biting. It's the, "if one of these escapes it's going to be alive on my house for the next 6 months" crickets escape and live for a week or so. Still, I don't like crickets but I do plan on getting a couple dozen a every week to add in to his diet. So right now I'm feeding crickets, black soldier fly larvae, superworms, and will be introducing butterworms this week. I dust minimally because I can only get him to eat anything dusted first thing in the morning, even then once he realize his food has vitamins on it he doesn't eat them. I've had crickets with dust stay in his cage for days with out him eatting. To make up for this I take his cage outside in the sun everyday (half of the cage in shaded).
Back to my original question
So based on the nutritional info, butterworms are actually better than silkworms, when also given with an insect with a hard chitin shell.

Haha yes, I get that feeling! My girlfriend found one behind our piano the other day... at least it was dead... but that was not a pleasent experience to say the least!!

But yes, butterworms are better than silkworms. From my understanding, silkworms are easier to take care of though... and they're bigger, more active and better climbers. That's probably why they're more commonly used.

I still like butters better

 

[nick barta]

A trick with the butter worms is to warm them up before feeding so they move around more.

Nick

 

[camimom]

some people have had chams suffer what appeard to be allergic reactions to butters.

frankly, no one bug should make up the most of their diet.

Silks, roaches, and crickets are what is considered the staple foods, while others are treat bugs.

i would not feed butters regularly, well frankly, i dont feed them at all.

the type of roaches we use, do not breed in houses. they cant. and if you have a sealed cage, and a good bucket to breed in, they cant get out.
trust me, i did the whole no way in HE-- i was intentionally bringing roaches in my house.

2 years later, best decision ever.

i feed 5 chams off my colony, and i only buy crickets as a treat here and there.

No smell, no noise, and super fast breeding.

 

[Lazy Boy]

So wouldn't give up my roach colony. Best decision I ever made was starting it. I to just get crickets once in a while to change it up but I keep roaches, reptiworms, silks and supers on hand at all times.

 

[xephyr17]

True about the possible allergic reaction to butters. Both of mine are fine--definitely depends on the cham. Hopefully after getting 100 yours won't be!

But it's true. Roaches are the s***.

 

[camimom]

True about the possible allergic reaction to butters. Both of mine are fine--definitely depends on the cham. Hopefully after getting 100 yours won't be!

But it's true. Roaches are the s***.

some chams dont have reactions, I used to feed my veild butters, then i just stopped cuz i was feeding other things. then i heard about the reactions, so why risk it? im that person that it would happen with all five of my chammies.

roaches are ugly icky creatures, but they save my wallet soo much money,

 

[xephyr17]

some chams dont have reactions, I used to feed my veild butters, then i just stopped cuz i was feeding other things. then i heard about the reactions, so why risk it? im that person that it would happen with all five of my chammies.

roaches are ugly icky creatures, but they save my wallet soo much money,

Where did you get your roaches from to start your colony?

 

[camimom]

Where did you get your roaches from to start your colony?

forum members and craigslist.

 

[ridgebax1]

It's true that dubias are super easy to breed and keep. All they need is heat. It is pretty hard to have escapees to since they do not jump like crickets. I have a colony that was started several years ago and they have been neglected at times, (for months once as my son put them in a junk room and forgot about them)! They do not climb fly jump bite sting or stink. They don't look too roachy until they are adults and even then only the males look the most like roaches. They do creep me out still and I wear gloves when I clean their bin. The nymphs aren't too bad I can pick them up bare handed just not the adults. I have never had any escape. I only feed then to my beardie, they are just not active enough to attract the attention of my chameleons.
The best thing to do is offer a wide variety of bugs just like they would encounter in the wild.

 

[adrouin]

Hmm...you guys are starting to turn me on to roaches. Can they not breed out if the cage because of heat issues? What's the smallest size bin you can use? I would like to be able to put the cage in a larger bin to prevent any escapes.

I really hope my Cham isn't allergic to butterworms. Once I get them I guess I'm going to have to give him one small one and wait. What am I looking for, swelling, wheezing, etc?

 

[junglefries]

Chameleon diets should follow hunter's law, as long as it is non toxic. If it crawls, it falls. If it flies, it dies. The more the variance, the healthier the chameleon. As my kid says while playing FPS, 'easy peasy'.

 

[camimom]

Hmm...you guys are starting to turn me on to roaches. Can they not breed out if the cage because of heat issues? What's the smallest size bin you can use? I would like to be able to put the cage in a larger bin to prevent any escapes.

I really hope my Cham isn't allergic to butterworms. Once I get them I guess I'm going to have to give him one small one and wait. What am I looking for, swelling, wheezing, etc?

becuase dubias are tropical roaches, they cant breed outside a warm environment, which is why they are banned in florida.

i use a rubbermaid xmas tub to breed my colony in. its really dependent on how many you want to breed. i need more breeding space because i feed five chams with them. you can probably get away with a bit of a smaller tub, but you dont want too small, as they need space to hide and what not, and when too crampd, the males tend to get their wings chewed on.

now, just fyi, they cant fly. the males do have wings, but ive never seen a male fly, more like a slight slow flutter movement from the top of an egg crate to the bottom of the crate. nothing serious. so dont worry about that.

they need plenty of food, or again, the males get chewed on.

in regards to the allergic reaction, the only thing we have seen, has been their chins turning black, and it not going away for days on end, if not weeks.
no wheezing or anything like that, just black chins/

 

[Iluvheidi]

Butterworms

I have veileds and panthers, my panthers had no reaction to the butter worms but my female veiled did. the black spot on the chin goes away in a week or so. They LOVED the worms. juicy and plump. They are on the small side so I fed them with a mix of crickets. Now i have made the switch to dubia for the past year and never looked back. I have two bins. One with all the adult males and females. 7-1 female to male ratio. They do all the breeding then In a smaller bin I keep my feeders. Ive found they breed better if you dont bother them for weeks at a time. Just open to feed and leave in dark place with heat mat. I wrote this on my phone. sorry for the incomplete robotic sentences.