VeiledChams
Avid Member
My reply to this is on youtube, didnt want to bring strong language to the forum.
battle of the chameleons??!?!!?!
- Thread starter chameleonboy1
- Start date
My reply to this is on youtube, didnt want to bring strong language to the forum.
italian chameleon
New Member
VeiledChams
Avid Member
CamiGirl89
New Member
Totally agree with the above post 
And I love how I am told to get a life, but you don't see me posting videos on youtube of my chameleons "sparring"... I think we need to take a look at lives here! The lives and health of your chams, most definitely!
And I love how I am told to get a life, but you don't see me posting videos on youtube of my chameleons "sparring"... I think we need to take a look at lives here! The lives and health of your chams, most definitely!
VeiledChams
Avid Member
Totally agree with the above post
Said the same to me.. look at my response
CamiGirl89
New Member
Saw that. Quite the odd reply to our voices of concern. Poor little guys 
Wow, really classy, the people here on this forum. Fyi, all four of my jacksons are happy and in good health. Love how complete strangers feel justified to attack people that they think to be wrong...what I did is no different than what national geographic does, yet I don't see you all attacking them. By the way, cussing people out and calling them names is a real mature way to settle differences...bet that works wonders for you in real life.
If I can also add, there were many mature replies in this thread that, despite them not agreeing my actions, I appreciated. But there's also a few bonehead caveman replies which I did not appreciate. If you think I'm wrong, that's fine, support your thoughts in a constructive manner and ill take it into consideration. Course, calling me an idiot and attacking me will not help your cause. All it does is make you come off as bigoted, intolerant, and ignorant. Just saying.
xx99TheCreatorxx
New Member
Hey kid, dont battle your jacksons, they could get hurt idiot.
Don't call me "kid", son.
Probably one of the better comments in this thread...I'll probably edit my video to state something like this. Thank you for your input.
AllFallDown
New Member
I agree 100%, I think name calling is unnecessary. I also think that this discussion can occur in a mature manner.
That said.... A video like that posted in a place like this is going to get some attention. Not all of it is going to be positive. You have to admit, your video is pretty controversial in a place like this- right? Whether the name calling is mature or not, whether it is constructive or not, its kind of an understandable reaction. BTW, in defense of the name callers, I am not sure that this response really helps your cause: "if something like this really bothers u then i'm sorry but u really need to get a life ". People have very good reasons to be bothered by your video. Telling them to get a life when they are responding to what they perceive to be animal abuse, is kind of a slap in the face of what I think this entire forum stands for- responsible husbandry.
I think we all have the image, at all times, of the immature 8 year old kid who's parents buy him an Iguana or Chameleon or (insert commonly victimize lizard here) only to see that poor thing killed by neglect or worse- the classic "Let's put Godzilla on the skateboard and push him down the hill. Oops, Godzilla got hit by a car, time to go get another one..." or the college frat boys (as I have already mention) who want to impress the ladies by having a Snake vs. cat battle.
People do stupid stuff with their animals, some of it is honest neglect (unintentional) and some of it is abuse. When a video like that is posted and seen, it seems natural to have the images above rush through our heads and want to lash out in defense of the poor animals.
In your case, what you are doing seems grey to me. It might be a bit a bit abusive, or it might just be unorthodox reptile husbandry. Hard to say. More discussion would need to occur to sort that out (any Chameleon experts here- biologists, vets, etc... have any thoughts on this? I would be curious to know what you think...). It does seem to push the envelope a little- something like that is bound to make some people mad. Particularly since you chose to post this video in response to a thread about kids possibly battling their chameleons to the death (the context really did not help you on this one).
[Edit]
By the way, this post is not meant to suggest that what you are doing is the same as the what the kid with the skate board or the college frat boys in my hypotheticals are doing. The point I am getting at is:
1) I think the name calling is unnessasary and you deserve the benefit of the doubt (My honest perception is that you are not doing this to be cruel, I do get a sense that you feel this is in their best interests- that alone makes it different)
2) Despite number 1, the name calling is very expectable (again, that does not make name calling ok- but don't act surprised)
Thanks for your input Carlton...probably the best comment on this thread. Your comment is a perfect example of why I continue to visit Cham forums on a regular basis. Cheers, mate.
AllFallDown
New Member
I commented before that I liked this comment as well, but now that I have read it over again, I kind of question where it is going.
"It all comes down to individual opinion and interpretation! Remember, two chams can "fight" just by changing their coloration and body posture. If one does not take the hint and back off, the next level of competition is the sparring match. Consider that a cham owner could give their males some sense of victory simply by removing the "loser" from the color battle.EVery time we stress our chams by invading their spaces, handling them, etc. we put them at SOME controlled risk. How much is acceptable?"
This boils down to a "where do you draw the line" argument. While I think there are some good points there, and yes I agree this is about individual interpretation- so is everything in life when you get right down to it. One parent calls beating the heck out of a misbehaving kid "disciplining" another calls it "abuse" where do you draw the line on this one? Who the heck knows, but a line definitely needs to be drawn somewhere, and there are some points where abuse seems pretty clear.
Sometimes cases of animal abuse are unclear, that does not mean that organizations which work to protect animals should be done away with. Too many people don't know or care about animal welfare- and having such an agency is place is not the slippery slope which was suggested. A happy medium can be found.
Bear in mind, we are not entitled to these animals, and we are not entitled to do with them as we please.
Hoj
Friendly Grasshopper
OK!! Im sorry but this pisses me off they are not toy for you to play with and battle. You let them carry or for minutes on end. The undue strees not to mention risks on injury are enough reason for me.
Right now Im pretty PO'd and going to leave this thread and strongly wish there were grounds to delete that post.
CamiGirl89
New Member
Get him, Hoj! Poor little chams!
Elizadolots
New Member
ok there is a kid at school who told me he just got a jacksons and a friend has a panther (both are males) so they were talking about FIGHTING theit chams to the DEATH
and whoever wins gets money i have to stop them .how!?!??!?!?!?!?
my mom said its none of my buissness but i cant let them harm those poor creatures
So, any news on this? I didn't read this thread yesterday.
If it's not already resolved, I'd like to offer my suggestion: I would first tell them that you will not be there if they do this because you don't think it's right. Then I would tell them that it's probably not going to be a "fight to the death" because, as noted, they would not consider each other competition and the Jackson's is not small enough to be considered "food" by the panther.
One thing you might consider: kids who abuse animals sometimes turn into adults who abuse others (including kids). From the perspective of a parent, I think the right thing to do is report this conversation (and the identity of the kids {or the one, if that's all you know}) to the school nurse or a counselor or the principal. I believe they will be obligated to involve the parents. Hopefully this will mean no harm comes to any chameleon. However, I understand that, unless this kid told a whole bunch of people, it would probably end up with you being labelled a rat.
Only you know if that's something you can handle. I wouldn't blame you at all for not taking this route. I just wanted to make you aware that there is a larger issue because you might not have made the connection between "let them fight to the death" and a man beating his wife or child.
Note that not all kids who say stupid stuff like this a) do it and b) go on to become abusers. For some, it's the eye opening lesson they needed when they see the reality of animal death. So, you wouldn't bear any responsibility for whatever might happen in the future.
HerbsForMyChameleon
Member
I find it interesting that everyone is saying things like "these poor little boys" when the chameleons themselves obviously engaged in these actions. Its not like he kept putting one back in front of the other after it was trying to get away. I have to say, None of us know what goes on in a chameleons head. This is definitely worth looking into before we start putting this guys down. Like others stated, at least these are jacksons who can lock horns and not just bite the shit out of each other as a panther would do.
italian chameleon
New Member
video should be removed from the forums! you should leave the thread for future reference tho, just in case someone comes up with the idea of making DIY cham "national geographic" again
P.s in the wild, fight is a last resort when two opponents are equally matched in color and size. there' s no such thing as sparring, if it's done is done for real.
I agree with you but it's a bit MORE than unorthodox husbandry , it's borderline irresponsible . btw I'll be a biologist by the end of this month
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