Baby chameleons won't open their eyes

[ReptileLove18]

what does IMO mean? ive seen it several times and i dont get what it means!

 

[Raphael1047]

what does IMO mean? ive seen it several times and i dont get what it means!

IMO= In My Opinion

 

[ZEUUS]

good luck with all those babies!!! hang in there little guys!

 

[chameleongalore]

This is almost always inadequate nutrition or supplementation of the mother.

IMO the problems the babies are having now is very much related to cause of the other hatch failure.

Chameleon eggs are generally very forgiving when it comes to moisture content, temperatures during incubation, medium used, etc.

They are very unforgiving when it comes to lack of vit a in the mother. As I related earlier in this thread with my experience loosing several hundred panther chameleon eggs when I gave it up for beta carotene.

Its hard for me to believe it was lack of nutrition of the mother because I do take good care of them. The female also came from a great breeder in Victoria ( Sandra) who cooks organic food for the crickets and knows exactly what chameleons need when it comes to nutrition.The two females I bough looked very healthy. The male on the other hand, I bought as an adult and I don't think he was taken care of properly. I also noticed with these veiled babies that the male I also bought as an adult so I don't know how well he was taken care of. Same female had babies before with another male and they were all fine.

 

[fluxlizard]

I'm not trying to offend you.Just trying to be helpful.
Inadequate vit a for eggs (or even calcium and d3) will not necessarily show in the appearance of the mother. She could appear outwardly healthy. This happpens pretty often in fact.
Don't believe me if you don't want to.
But if you continue to have problems with your eggs and babies, I suggest you give it serious consideration...
Sandra just posted in this very thread that she doesn't use vitamin a for 10 years.
Not all of us can get away with no vit a. I can't, and I've been doing this 20 years with several years that were on a pretty large scale. It is how I learned what I learned about why eggs fail and why eyes don't open or why they close if they hatched open. Even when the mother looks healthy. That's a first step, but if she doesn't have what the eggs need, her healthy appearance won't be enough...

 

[fluxlizard]

Oh and when I say moisture content, substrate, and temperature aren't big deals with the hatch rate of healthy chameleon eggs and that isn't why your clutches failed most likely, it is because I have had thousands of eggs to try different substrates, temperatures, and moisture content with and have done so.

 

[chameleongalore]

I'm not trying to offend you.Just trying to be helpful.
Inadequate vit a for eggs (or even calcium and d3) will not necessarily show in the appearance of the mother. She could appear outwardly healthy. This happpens pretty often in fact.
Don't believe me if you don't want to.
But if you continue to have problems with your eggs and babies, I suggest you give it serious consideration...
Sandra just posted in this very thread that she doesn't use vitamin a for 10 years.
Not all of us can get away with no vit a. I can't, and I've been doing this 20 years with several years that were on a pretty large scale. It is how I learned what I learned about why eggs fail and why eyes don't open or why they close if they hatched open. Even when the mother looks healthy. That's a first step, but if she doesn't have what the eggs need, her healthy appearance won't be enough...

I wasn't offended, sorry if it sounded this way. I appreciate your advice, i just wanted to say that its hard for me to believe it was nutrition because if I'm lacking it than it will be hard for me to fix. I guess maybe more dusting would be the solution but I don't want to harm their organs either as it can be toxic to them. I think I know what I have to do, this only happened with one female so it might be a genetic thing...who knows. I do use Vit A, I think its important. I have decided on a new dusting schedule so I hope it helps. Do you think the temperatures/diapause could have effected the eggs alot? I'm trying 4 different techniques of incubation, have to experiment I guess. I've always done good with veilds, 10 years experience allows you to learn alot but its sure sad to see little guys be born with problems. I'm hoping this force feeding them with vitamins will save them. thanks for your time

 

[chameleongalore]

i think I figured out my problem, well I hope I did. I have been using Reptivite vitamin dust and it has the Acetate form of Vit A which I read is not the proper form of Vit A for chameleons because they can't break it down. I know the Beta Caretene is what they need so I'm going to have to find a vit dust with that form of Vit A which alot of them have I'm sure. I only feed crickets once a week and i gutload them with apples, carrots( where they get their vit A from) and celery. The rest of their diet is mostly silk worms, horn and butter worms so I guess they just were not getting enough Beta Caretene. I'm hoping I solved the problem, i'm quite confident about it and the babies are now getting doses of Beta Caretene everyday and lots of real sunshine.

 

[bradley]

I have used reptivite for the past 2 years or so. I have never had problems with vit A. I do gutload with carrots quite often though.

What do others use to ensure they gen enough vit A?

 

[chameleongalore]

I have used reptivite for the past 2 years or so. I have never had problems with vit A. I do gutload with carrots quite often though.

What do others use to ensure they gen enough vit A?

That probably why you haven't had problems if you use carrots. Another just use a different vit dust with the Beta caretene form of vit A and there is a few on the market you just have to look. I think repashy plus has the beta caretene.

 

[bradley]

That probably why you haven't had problems if you use carrots. Another just use a different vit dust with the Beta caretene form of vit A and there is a few on the market you just have to look. I think repashy plus has the beta caretene.

I do dust with repashy every so often but it isnt part of my regular schedule.

 

[kinyonga]

I see there is still confusion about vitamin A.
Beta carotene is a prOformed source which the chameleon has to convert to vitamin A. Beta carotene is from greens and veggies, etc.

Then there is prEformed (retinol, acetate, etc....also from meat) which is ready for the chameleon to use and this prEformed type can build up in the system and lead to an overdose.

It has been said that chameleons can not convert the beta carotene...but I still don't know about this. I would think that any that consume some vegetation would be able to convert it....but I have no proof.

Also....you need to be aware that vitamin D3 and vitamin A are antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance from what I have read....so if you are overdoing the D3 through supplements then more vitamin A may be needed to balance it. IMHO although overdoing both may end up in a balance I don't think it's a good thing. I worry that it may damage the organs....but I have no proof

 

[chameleongalore]

I see there is still confusion about vitamin A.
Beta carotene is a prOformed source which the chameleon has to convert to vitamin A. Beta carotene is from greens and veggies, etc.

Then there is prEformed (retinol, acetate, etc....also from meat) which is ready for the chameleon to use and this prEformed type can build up in the system and lead to an overdose.

It has been said that chameleons can not convert the beta carotene...but I still don't know about this. I would think that any that consume some vegetation would be able to convert it....but I have no proof.

Also....you need to be aware that vitamin D3 and vitamin A are antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance from what I have read....so if you are overdoing the D3 through supplements then more vitamin A may be needed to balance it. IMHO although overdoing both may end up in a balance I don't think it's a good thing. I worry that it may damage the organs....but I have no proof

I heard that the chameleons can't convert the acetate and not the beta carotene.I think thats has been my whole problem, using VitA in Acetate form and not Beta Carotene. I will do more reseach about this, I think thats my problems.

 

[sandrachameleon]

....Sandra just posted in this very thread that she doesn't use vitamin a for 10 years....

I didnt supplement with preformed vitamin A for ten+ years, with TOTAL SUCCESS - many healthy happy babies -never had any issues with eggs or hatchlings or adults. Near 100% hatch rates and all that hatched lived well (except one set of twins).

That said, the females in question did get some small amounts of pre-formed vitamin A while in my care, and certainly got plenty of it from chameleongalore who uses more supplementation than I.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I heard that the chameleons can't convert the acetate and not the beta carotene.I think thats has been my whole problem, using VitA in Acetate form and not Beta Carotene. I will do more reseach about this, I think thats my problems.

Right, many people on this forum strongly believe chameleons do not convert beta carotene into preformed vitamin A. And its not know which bugs do either. Many therefore feel some supplementation with pre-formed vitamin A is necessary. But Im not the only person on this forum who has had success without the provision of preformed vitamin A. It's something of a well worn topic on this forum
You might find these links on the subject interesting:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/food-thought-12472
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/chame...nt-want-21534/
Seriously worried.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/carrots-vit-23572
http://jgp.rupress.org/cgi/reprint/47/3/433.pdf
Vitamin A....it scares me
http://www.peteducation.com/article....+1796&aid=3027
Insects and vitamin A and other nutrients.
Vitamins and othr nutrients...
http://www.mendeley.com/research/car...ifer-pardalis/
Vitamin A Supplements From Dr. Ivan Alfonso's Blog
Supplement Confusion
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm
https://www.chameleonforums.com/gutload-vitamin-27997/

 

[chameleongalore]

Right, many people on this forum strongly believe chameleons do not convert beta carotene into preformed vitamin A. And its not know which bugs do either. Many therefore feel some supplementation with pre-formed vitamin A is necessary. But Im not the only person on this forum who has had success without the provision of preformed vitamin A. It's something of a well worn topic on this forum
You might find these links on the subject interesting:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/food-thought-12472
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/chame...nt-want-21534/
Seriously worried.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/carrots-vit-23572
http://jgp.rupress.org/cgi/reprint/47/3/433.pdf
Vitamin A....it scares me
http://www.peteducation.com/article....+1796&aid=3027
Insects and vitamin A and other nutrients.
Vitamins and othr nutrients...
http://www.mendeley.com/research/car...ifer-pardalis/
Vitamin A Supplements From Dr. Ivan Alfonso's Blog
Supplement Confusion
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm
https://www.chameleonforums.com/gutload-vitamin-27997/

Thank you so much Sandra, i think i will just try both form of vit A to make sure they get them. With 50 adult breeders, a toodler and a teacher career, i dont have time to cook great gutloads plus i dont really feed crickets. I need to find a good supplement.

 

[kinyonga]

Acetate doesn't have to be converted from what I understand.....its ready to go...and that's why it can lead to an overdose. From what I've read, the concern is that if beta carotene can't be converted by them they could become short of vitamin A.