Arched spine and muscle weakness

jackschamnewbie

New Member
I suspect this is a result of under calcium supplementation. Though the rate at which her spine has inflamed and the sudden decrease in activity/shaky movement, and falling, makes me wonder if something else might be going on.

I am about to take her to a herp but if this is classic MBD then what can i really do? Im about to cry, i thought calcium rich gut loads were enough....

Right now I am helping her keep her grip to eat from a cup, she fell in this morning which hasn't happened before and she doesn't have the energy to chase the cricks around the cage... Any advice or input is greatly appreciated
 
Here area couple photos
 

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Yes, shaky movements/uncoordination is also a sign of calcium deficiency. Looks like it has been going on for awhile. Probably going to need calcium injections. Needs a vet asap. Gut loading is not enough for most feeders we use. You have to put the calcium on them to correct the ca/phosphorus imbalance.
 
I suspect this is a result of under calcium supplementation. Though the rate at which her spine has inflamed and the sudden decrease in activity/shaky movement, and falling, makes me wonder if something else might be going on.

I am about to take her to a herp but if this is classic MBD then what can i really do? Im about to cry, i thought calcium rich gut loads were enough....

Right now I am helping her keep her grip to eat from a cup, she fell in this morning which hasn't happened before and she doesn't have the energy to chase the cricks around the cage... Any advice or input is greatly appreciated
That's really sad, I hope you and the vet can help save her.

It's most definitely MBD. Dusting is really the way to go...
 
Would mbd really change the shape of her spine in less than a week? I would have gotten to the vet Monday but I thought she was just basking in weird positions. Thanks for the advice though, please cross your fingers for her... Vet apt is at 3.
I feel absolutely wretched

on a side note, I'm not finding nearly as many feces as i should for how much she eats, plenty of urates but hardly any poo, is this related?
 
Would mbd really change the shape of her spine in less than a week? I would have gotten to the vet Monday but I thought she was just basking in weird positions. Thanks for the advice though, please cross your fingers for her... Vet apt is at 3.
I feel absolutely wretched

No, this is a problem that has been going on for a long period of time and is caused by inadequate husbandry. This is why dusting and outside time are so important. Getting her to the vet is your only hope at this time, I just hope it is not too late. This is a very bad case though and the outlook may not be great. Please, do more research in regards to proper supplementation and lighting.

I hope for the best for your little girl.
 
Would mbd really change the shape of her spine in less than a week? I would have gotten to the vet Monday but I thought she was just basking in weird positions. Thanks for the advice though, please cross your fingers for her... Vet apt is at 3.
I feel absolutely wretched

What you may be seeing is an actual skeletal injury resulting from a long period of developing MBD. If the bone has been getting weaker over time or actually collapsing or deforming, she is more vulnerable to an injury. Something major happened quickly though the problem was there for quite a while. An xray should tell you what's going on with her spine.
 
No, this is a problem that has been going on for a long period of time and is caused by inadequate husbandry. This is why dusting and outside time are so important. Getting her to the vet is your only hope at this time, I just hope it is not too late. This is a very bad case though and the outlook may not be great. Please, do more research in regards to proper supplementation and lighting.

I hope for the best for your little girl.

You sure can be a pretty smug, snark little *****, man. Sandra's blog included nothing about calcium coating her feeders. I couldn't find or come up with a better lighting setup in the lighting thread than a 4 lamp t5ho with two uvb bulbsls, and two in both spectrums of visible. I've researched the crap out of this site, but really man, who are you to be so condemning? Thank you for your support and thanks for hoping the best for my baby girl. **** you very much
 
You sure can be a pretty smug, snark little *****, man. Sandra's blog included nothing about calcium coating her feeders. I couldn't find or come up with a better lighting setup in the lighting thread than a 4 lamp t5ho with two uvb bulbsls, and two in both spectrums of visible. I've researched the crap out of this site, but really man, who are you to be so condemning? Thank you for your support and thanks for hoping the best for my baby girl. **** you very much

No need for name calling. Just calling it as I see it. Your supplementation seems off and is likely the cause of the jackson's ailment. If corrected and the animal sees a vet, she may have a chance but she will need special assistance in the future.

For my jacksons I use calcium w/out D3 2x weekly; calcium w/ D3 once and month and a multivite once a month.
 
No need for name calling. Just calling it as I see it. Your supplementation seems off and is likely the cause of the jackson's ailment. If corrected and the animal sees a vet, she may have a chance but she will need special assistance in the future.

For my jacksons I use calcium w/out D3 2x weekly; calcium w/ D3 once and month and a multivite once a month.

thats nearly the same regiment I've used the whole time! I haven't used calcium with d3, but weekly or biweekly doses depending on whether the feeders have been fed turnip or dandelion greens or not. Ive been hoping to not over do it and because of that I've caused her a serious illness. I already blame myself, i don't need any more help dj. Sorry for calling you names, really, i shouldn't act like that, i just don't think its your place to call anyone out like that, much less someone who is upset and worried about their cham. Seeing as you have better luck than i do, is there something wrong with using exo terra vitamins? what do you use?

The vet said that powdered calcium works better than the shot he could give and sent me on my way, he said hopefuly the bump should go down in a month or two... How much calcium is too much? I'm planning to use it every feeding.
 
I am not trying to make you feel bad, just trying to help. Sorry if it came off wrong.

I know nothing about Exo terra vitamins. I use rep-cal and have never had any problems. I have also heard good things about the Rapeshy all in one, but never tried it.

Since Jackson's are sensitive to supplementation, I would not use the calcium everyday. That's is just my opinion, maybe the vets will chime in.
 
Plain calcium that does not contain D3 is water soluble and very hard to over do. When they say Jackson's are sensitive to supplements it's the fat soluble vitamins. I dust all feeders that have a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio w plain calcium even for my Jackson. All roaches, crickets and other insects with a poor ratio are dusted every time. If you only dust twice a week but feed high phosphorus insects everyday then the reptile will have a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio internally. I have my opinion and its works great for me so that us what I follow. I like to do my own research rather than follow the standard opinion. Its better to understand how things work physiologically and research before determining a proper method.
 
Plain calcium that does not contain D3 is water soluble and very hard to over do. When they say Jackson's are sensitive to supplements it's the fat soluble vitamins. I dust all feeders that have a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio w plain calcium even for my Jackson. All roaches, crickets and other insects with a poor ratio are dusted every time. If you only dust twice a week but feed high phosphorus insects everyday then the reptile will have a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio internally. I have my opinion and its works great for me so that us what I follow. I like to do my own research rather than follow the standard opinion. Its better to understand how things work physiologically and research before determining a proper method.

where did you get this information about calcium to phosphorus ratio and what is and is not fat soluble? I haven't found a resource that even remotely touched on this but i would love to learn about it. i feel if i knew how this was happening i might know best how to care for her from here on.... like is there more than just the link you attached?
 
You can research it but plain calcium is a mineral and is water soluble while most vitamins are fat soluble. Fat soluble vitamins can build up in the fat and that is how overdose happens due to accumulation before it can be metabolized. If it is water soluble excess is just excreted. When your vet does blood testing they can tell you whether your animal has a proper calcium to phosphorus ratio in the blood.

If phosphorus levels are too high the body cannot properly metabolize calcium.

To determine feeder calcium to phosphorus ratios you need to look up their nutritional content.
 
IMHO when supplementing montane species its still important to dust any insects with a poor ratio of phosphorous to calcium with calcium. Why does it make sense not to? It's the fat soluble vitamins that we need to be concerned with.

Fat soluble vitamins....D3, vitamin A, vitamin K, vitamin D3.
Water soluble vitamins..C and the B vitamins.
Calcium is somewhat water soluble depending on the type.

Here's a Site that might help you understand the calcium to phosphorous ratio, etc....
http://www.chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
 
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