Another thing to consider in the vitamin D picture...

K

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
"The team of Dutch scientists examined how mealworms, black soldier fly larvae and crickets reacted when exposed under UV light. The results are promising, when exposed under UV lights mealworms contain as much as vitamin D as mackerel, one of the highest source. Therefore mealworms are now one of the few and best source of this essential vitamin"...
https://21bites.com/blogs/blog/vitamin-d-in-edible-insects
 
jamest0o0 said:
Don’t some fungi, lichens, etc carry vitamin D? Maybe from other insects, those insects are eating, or carcasses… Maybe nocturnal animals utilize it more efficiently somehow?

Basically, @kinyonga needs to look it up. She slacks around here too often and we’re all tired of carrying her on these forums.
Click to expand...

One step ahead of you as usual!😉

"Mushrooms are the only vegetable that contains Vitamin D, naturally. All other natural food sources of Vitamin D are of animal, poultry or seafood origin"...
https://www.mushrooms.ca/vitamin-d/

Lichen....
https://www.vegetology.com/blog/thi...l-make-you-think-twice-about-your-supplements
 
jamest0o0 said:
Don’t some fungi, lichens, etc carry vitamin D? Maybe from other insects, those insects are eating, or carcasses… Maybe nocturnal animals utilize it more efficiently somehow?

Basically, @kinyonga needs to look it up. She slacks around here too often and we’re all tired of carrying her on these forums.
Click to expand...
Yeah she's the only one that knows how to use Google or whatever the kids are calling it these days
 
Interestingly, I’ve notice my
chameleons get noticably more excited for insects I’ve had outside in natural light. I dont mean wild caught (altho the same applies). I experimented a few times by taking a colony in a screen enclosure outside for several hours before feeding. Im not sure if there is a different scent, or what, but the chams would more or less RUN for those insects, compared to their usual excitement.

I have contemplated adding a uvb bulb for grasshoppers and other insects that tend to bask a bit in sunlight. Not sure how much natural uvb superworms would be absorbing. I’d imagine in the wild they are under ground cover, or under soil, rocks, bark, etc. perhaps, as @kinyonga and that other dude Jim mentioned, superworms and others maybe get their vit D thru diet? All this is speculation on my part, not research.
 
You said...
"Interestingly, I’ve notice my
chameleons get noticably more excited for insects I’ve had outside in natural light. I dont mean wild caught (altho the same applies). I experimented a few times by taking a colony in a screen enclosure outside for several hours before feeding. Im not sure if there is a different scent, or what, but the chams would more or less RUN for those insects, compared to their usual excitement"...interesting. Are the insects more active that have npbeen outside?

You said..."I have contemplated adding a uvb bulb for grasshoppers and other insects that tend to bask a bit in sunlight"...it might be interesting to see if it makes a difference.

You said..."Not sure how much natural uvb superworms would be absorbing. I’d imagine in the wild they are under ground cover, or under soil, rocks, bark, etc. perhaps, as @kinyonga and that other dude Jim mentioned, superworms and others maybe get their vit D thru diet?"...it's more a question for of how they are getting/making their D3 I think...and whether UVB plays a part at all....or what UVB does to them maybe.

You said... "All this is speculation on my part, not research"....sometimes it leads to discoveries.
 
Based on personal observations, and simple logic I suppose, I would imagine that in nature morio larvae would often transition from beneath the cover of natural substrate to consume any nutrient dense vegetable, fruit, fungi, or carrion. This would occur even during daylight hours and in full exposure to the sun as they are opportunistic feeders. Not the mention that they prey on other insects species, especially eggs and small, vulnerable larvae. Morio beetles are also terrestrial and would obviously be exposed to direct UV from time to time. The only period of time they would completely avoid exposure to sunlight would be during pupation.

I've done a lot of experimentation with my morio colony and found them to eat an interesting variety of food items, some more readily than others. My primary colonies favorite food items are butternut squash(absolute favorite at every life stage), cucumber, sweet potato, banana, mango, carrot, beet, and white mushroom. But some of the cultures I experimented with had interesting responses to other food items. For instance, if ground finely enough, they absolutely loved freshly spent coffee grounds, as well as a different variety of raw meat, and they annihilated BSFL. But I would not recommend feeding morio animal protein, any colony which I fed animal protein to tended to become somewhat aggressive toward each other over time, specifically predating or picking on individuals undergoing molt as they transitioned to the next instar. Cannibalism is obviously not optimal when they are dwelling communally.

It would be excellent if testing was conducted on zophobas morio to determine whether their vitamin D content could be heavily increased as a result of either UV exposure or diet. I know that commercially raised morio are objectively inferior when compared to my cultures based on their average mortality rate and comparative size at the 4-5 month mark. I tend to keep my larvae a little longer than commercial breeders do before selling and I have little doubt that I provide them with a far more variable and nutrient rich diet. (Somewhat unrelated) My easter egger hens greatly appreciate this, as do many other bird species that reside on the property. I tested the feeding responses of both reptile and avian species to my culture vs commercial cultures. My culture has out performed every time, even with more indiscriminate eaters. As a result my hens are behave like velociraptors when they see me coming with a bowl of supers. And the normally shy duck species dwelling around the pond become very friendly once a super pops out.

I've attached a photo for comparison between my culture and commercially produced morio of approximately the same age. I pulled a super from my culture at random but selected one of the larger larvae from the commercial culture. For size reference I wear XL/XXL dispoable gloves. The commercial culture was listed as size large when I purchased it. So they likely had significantly less access to quality nutrition during development.

(Unrelated) I also leave a tray of earthworms, slugs, snails, grubs and other insects removed from the gardens outside the home once a month for the resident robins, stellar jays, kestrels and mated pair of ravens to consume, beside this I place a bowl of supers. The supers tend to disappear first. As a result the robins have begun nesting very close to the house; one nesting robin will take a morio or two right from my hands without leaving the nest.
 

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Provancha65 said:
Based on personal observations, and simple logic I suppose, I would imagine that in nature morio larvae would often transition from beneath the cover of natural substrate to consume any nutrient dense vegetable, fruit, fungi, or carrion. This would occur even during daylight hours and in full exposure to the sun as they are opportunistic feeders. Not the mention that they prey on other insects species, especially eggs and small, vulnerable larvae. Morio beetles are also terrestrial and would obviously be exposed to direct UV from time to time. The only period of time they would completely avoid exposure to sunlight would be during pupation.

I've done a lot of experimentation with my morio colony and found them to eat an interesting variety of food items, some more readily than others. My primary colonies favorite food items are butternut squash(absolute favorite at every life stage), cucumber, sweet potato, banana, mango, carrot, beet, and white mushroom. But some of the cultures I experimented with had interesting responses to other food items. For instance, if ground finely enough, they absolutely loved freshly spent coffee grounds, as well as a different variety of raw meat, and they annihilated BSFL. But I would not recommend feeding morio animal protein, any colony which I fed animal protein to tended to become somewhat aggressive toward each other over time, specifically predating or picking on individuals undergoing molt as they transitioned to the next instar. Cannibalism is obviously not optimal when they are dwelling communally.

It would be excellent if testing was conducted on zophobas morio to determine whether their vitamin D content could be heavily increased as a result of either UV exposure or diet. I know that commercially raised morio are objectively inferior when compared to my cultures based on their average mortality rate and comparative size at the 4-5 month mark. I tend to keep my larvae a little longer than commercial breeders do before selling and I have little doubt that I provide them with a far more variable and nutrient rich diet. (Somewhat unrelated) My easter egger hens greatly appreciate this, as do many other bird species that reside on the property. I tested the feeding responses of both reptile and avian species to my culture vs commercial cultures. My culture has out performed every time, even with more indiscriminate eaters. As a result my hens are behave like velociraptors when they see me coming with a bowl of supers. And the normally shy duck species dwelling around the pond become very friendly once a super pops out.

I've attached a photo for comparison between my culture and commercially produced morio of approximately the same age. I pulled a super from my culture at random but selected one of the larger larvae from the commercial culture. For size reference I wear XL/XXL dispoable gloves. The commercial culture was listed as size large when I purchased it. So they likely had significantly less access to quality nutrition during development.

(Unrelated) I also leave a tray of earthworms, slugs, snails, grubs and other insects removed from the gardens outside the home once a month for the resident robins, stellar jays, kestrels and mated pair of ravens to consume, beside this I place a bowl of supers. The supers tend to disappear first. As a result the robins have begun nesting very close to the house; one nesting robin will take a morio or two right from my hands without leaving the nest.
Click to expand...
I too have noticed my colony of super worms were larger than ones I would order in the past. I think I even posted about it once. My colony reproduced on it’s own in one large bin with wood for them to burrow into for safe pupating/pupation? Lol. They ate everything from dead feeders to whole watermelons. I think the bio active substrate with a wide range of food(not oats/bran) contribute to their nutritional content and size. I believe this has already been proven with mealworms too.
 
jamest0o0 said:
I too have noticed my colony of super worms were larger than ones I would order in the past. I think I even posted about it once. My colony reproduced on it’s own in one large bin with wood for them to burrow into for safe pupating/pupation? Lol. They ate everything from dead feeders to whole watermelons. I think the bio active substrate with a wide range of food(not oats/bran) contribute to their nutritional content and size. I believe this has already been proven with mealworms too.
Click to expand...
They absolutely pupate much more successfully in something which resembles their natural habitat vs in a sterile environment. I think I had close to 0% mortality a terrarium filled with bark/peat/soil layers vs plastic pupation cells. The soil provides better insulation layers from either heat or cold and makes the emergence from pupae to adult form less taxing. The only risk of pupation in a natural environment would be the eventual build up of pathogens over time. Not that it matters necessarily matters, superworms raised in bran are still subjected to bacteria and other potential pathogens considering they eat the same material the crawl and defecate in.
 
jamest0o0 said:
I too have noticed my colony of super worms were larger than ones I would order in the past. I think I even posted about it once. My colony reproduced on it’s own in one large bin with wood for them to burrow into for safe pupating/pupation? Lol. They ate everything from dead feeders to whole watermelons. I think the bio active substrate with a wide range of food(not oats/bran) contribute to their nutritional content and size. I believe this has already been proven with mealworms too.
Click to expand...
Right now I am attempting to grow out my dairy cow isopod culture as rapidly as possible so that I may begin using them as an additional food item being that they possess an exceptional calcium to phosphorus ratio, plus my chams really seem to love them. I am personally not a big fan of supplements and have been advised against their use with chameleons whenever possible by both established exotics vets and professors/lecturers at the OSU veterinary school. Essentially no supplement has been thoroughly tested for efficacy in providing chameleons with micronutrients. This is coming directly from the mouth of the exotics vets/professors. They did concede that plain calcium is the safest and due to the lack of variety in commercial feeders it was necessary during the primary growth stage. They instead recommended using preformulated reptile food as a secondary gut load to fresh produce due to the fact that it has been more rigorously tested and proven to provide proper nutrition. Thus far in addition to the obvious fresh produce, bee pollen, and honey I've also used Repashy crested gecko diet and T-Rex Tortoise diet to enhance my dubia colony's nutritional content and gut load value. I also provide the tortoise diet and bee pollen to my BSFL(my chams do not readily consume the larvae but the love the adult stage flies). Mazuri and Pangea were considered reputable brands as well.

Unfortunately their favorite food items are still Silkworms and Honey Bees, but after a mishap I am reluctant to provide them with the latter. Instead I just pull pollen from my hive on occasion or procure it from locale keepers. I was lucky enough to have an exceptionally massive swarm show up on the property, so I went and purchased a weatherproofed insulated Layen's hive from a local keep/craftsman and was able to locale the swarm cluster containing the queen and placed her in the hive. This was about 2 months ago, I think, and they have since done extremely well(very thankful). They started off occupying 8 frames but have now filled out 16. Yesterday another massive swarm showed up and I was able to locate the queen and I now have them housed temporarily house them until I procure a second hive tomorrow. Thinking of using this hive specifically for pollen trapping.




 
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