Aggitated Eyes

[tutle64]

I have a male veiled chameleon named Shadewood that I've had for about 6 months now. I am his second owner even though he is not quite a year old yet. More details on care included at the end.

Shadewood has been having a hard time with his eyes for the last 4-ish weeks. It all started when his eye sockets shed. I first noticed him once in a while scratching his eyes on the branches around this time. The weather had been dryer than normal and I noticed the humidity levels were below the usual 60-70% daytime humidity. As a result, I added a second humidifier to keep the room humidity above 60% and increased auto misting from two to three times a day at 60s each session. This seemed to help but did not fix the issue. His eyes began to sink in and I even caught them puffed out slightly more than normal every so often. I also would catch him with one or both of his eyes closed, so I became pretty concerned. I noticed he had shed still around his eyes about a week after the shedding, so I made several attempts over the next days to gently remove it with a wet cotton swab, which he clearly appreciated.

With most of the shed removed, his eyes seemed to be in less pain as I didnt catch them closed very frequently anymore. However, they were moderately sunken. I suspected the dry weather had made him more dehydrated, which was confirmed by a yellow-to-orange urate sack. I gave him fluids orally with a syringe over the next couple days. His next urate came back a white color with very faint yellow, so I knew this had helped. The sunken and closing eyes are not better yet though, so I'm wondering if I should take him to the vet to get checked out further. He could have shed stuck in his eye.

I just today put him in his screen travel cage and gave him a shower with indirect mist. I used this opportunity to remove any other small particles of shed with a wet swab and used the syringe to try and help gently rinse out his eye sockets. Its hard to say if that helped rn but I got some good pictures of his eyes during the process, as attached.

As for other things to note, his grip is very strong, he eats alot, and has not been lethargic. These make me suspect this is not an infection which is why I have not taken him to the vet yet. I dont handle him very often, although I do feed him by hand when he will let me. He gets fed mostly dubias, but also some crickets and superworms, and hornworms or silkworms when available. The dubias amd crickets are gutloaded with flukers calcium diet, and I dust with herptivite multivitamins twice a month. Watering was covered. Feces is normal. His cage is a 36x36x18 glass terrarium with a DIY screen extension that adds about 18 inches of additional height. I use arcadia UVB and lighting, two heatlamps regulated around 90F for his basking spots, and have two ventilation fans that I can turn on when humidity is too high (they are seldom used in this dry weather). The terrarium has many live plants and is bioactive. He loves to chow down on syngonium anytime I put a new one in there, he's a lawnmower. The room has a wall mounted unit which I don't use this time of year because it blows right onto his basking spot and could dry him out. I am located in southwestern Virginia.

 

[Gloriawood]

What a gorgeous boy you have there!!!! The only thing that stand out to me is that your basking and humidity may actually be a bit high. A vet visit is not a bad idea. I’m still relatively new, so I’ll tag some more experienced keepers to chime in. In the mean time, could you post a photo of the supplements you are using? @MissSkittles what do you think?

 

[tutle64]

What a gorgeous boy you have there!!!! The only thing that stand out to me is that your basking and humidity may actually be a bit high. A vet visit is not a bad idea. I’m still relatively new, so I’ll tag some more experienced keepers to chime in. In the mean time, could you post a photo of the supplements you are using? @MissSkittles what do you think?

Yeah here's the supplements and also some pics of the enclosure in case they help. I agree that the basking temp is slightly on the higher side but Shadewood is really good at regulating his temperature by moving just off center from the heat whenever he needs to, so I'm not super worried. I didnt mention this but the repashy calcium supplement I try to use a couple times a week, but since the roaches and crickets eat high calcium chow I don't worry too much about missing a couple dustings.

 

[Gloriawood]

Awesome! I bet he loves hiding in all those plants! Like I said, still in my first year keeping so I’ll leave advice to others. But I don’t see anything that sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Everyone here is super helpful and knowledgeable and I’m confident someone will be along shortly!

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. Give me a few minutes to go thru the info you’ve provided.

 

[MissSkittles]

Shadewood has been having a hard time with his eyes for the last 4-ish weeks. It all started when his eye sockets shed. I first noticed him once in a while scratching his eyes on the branches around this time. The weather had been dryer than normal and I noticed the humidity levels were below the usual 60-70% This is too humid for a veiled. They need daytime humidity between 30-50%. daytime humidity. As a result, I added a second humidifier to keep the room humidity above 60% and increased auto misting from two to three times a day at 60s each session. This seemed to help but did not fix the issue. Chameleons are dry shedders, so increasing the humidity is going to interfere with and make his shedding process more difficult His eyes began to sink in and I even caught them puffed out slightly more than normal every so often. I also would catch him with one or both of his eyes closed, so I became pretty concerned. I noticed he had shed still around his eyes about a week after the shedding, so I made several attempts over the next days to gently remove it with a wet cotton swab, which he clearly appreciated. It’s always best not to help, but hopefully you won’t need to again.
As for other things to note, his grip is very strong, he eats alot, You need to be careful not to overfeed him. Veileds are opportunistic eaters and can easily become obese. You’ll see it in a puffed out casque and cheek pads. He looks ok now, but almost like he’s on the edge. I feed all of my adult chameleons 3-4 appropriately sized feeders (or equivalent) 3 days a week, plus treats. Assuming you have isopods in his enclosure, he will probably be hunting his fair share of those too. and has not been lethargic. These make me suspect this is not an infection which is why I have not taken him to the vet yet. I dont handle him very often, although I do feed him by hand when he will let me. He gets fed mostly dubias, but also some crickets and superworms, and hornworms or silkworms when available. The dubias amd crickets are gutloaded with flukers calcium diet,This needs to be improved upon, the Fluker’s will keep the bugs alive, but not help them be healthy and nutritious. See below graphic. and I dust with herptivite multivitamins twice a month. I’m going to suggest switching to Repashy calcium Plus LoD for use once every other week. Do NOT use the Repashy calcium plus. This is too high in calcium and is full of vitamins - many of which are fat soluble and have built up in your guys body. He is getting too much vitamin D3 and preformed A, which can be just as bad as not enough. Get a plain phosphorus free calcium Without D3 to lightly dust at every feeding. I’d say to just use that for about a month and then start using the LoD once every other week. Watering was covered. Feces is normal. His cage is a 36x36x18 glass terrarium with a DIY screen extension that adds about 18 inches of additional height. Ok. If you have the space to go bigger…. I use arcadia UVB What is the strength of your bulb? It’s written on the end. and lighting, two heatlamps regulated around 90F Too hot. It’s better to keep him at no hotter than 85. for his basking spots, and have two ventilation fans that I can turn on when humidity is too high (they are seldom used in this dry weather). The terrarium has many live plants and is bioactive. He loves to chow down on syngonium anytime I put a new one in there, That’s not on the safe plant list, but looking up the toxicity and it’s the same as for pothos - has calcium oxalates crystals. he's a lawnmower. The room has a wall mounted unit which I don't use this time of year because it blows right onto his basking spot and could dry him out. During the day you do want him drier than he has been. At night, if you are able to achieve consistently a temp drop below at least 68, you can use a fogger to boost humidity all the way at night which simulates the hydration they get in the wild thru fog. I am located in southwestern Virginia.
So, I’m not a vet or even close so I can’t diagnose what is exactly going on with your guy and his eyes. However, the incorrect supplements and high humidity are certainly contributing to his problems. Correcting those issues and time will help fix those. A vet visit is always a good idea, but you’ll need to make sure that they understand that he has been getting the Repashy Calcium Plus so frequently and that it contains high D3 and preformed vitamin A. Otherwise some vets might look at an eye issue and automatically assume a vitamin A deficiency and give an injection of A, which your guy has been getting too much of.
I hope I’ve been of some help. If you have any questions, just ask.

 

[elizaann2]

Just want to pop in her to say hello and welcome. Your boy is absolutely stunning. @MissSkittles is excellent, your in good hands with her

 

[tutle64]

Shadewood has been having a hard time with his eyes for the last 4-ish weeks. It all started when his eye sockets shed. I first noticed him once in a while scratching his eyes on the branches around this time. The weather had been dryer than normal and I noticed the humidity levels were below the usual 60-70% This is too humid for a veiled. They need daytime humidity between 30-50%. daytime humidity. As a result, I added a second humidifier to keep the room humidity above 60% and increased auto misting from two to three times a day at 60s each session. This seemed to help but did not fix the issue. Chameleons are dry shedders, so increasing the humidity is going to interfere with and make his shedding process more difficult His eyes began to sink in and I even caught them puffed out slightly more than normal every so often. I also would catch him with one or both of his eyes closed, so I became pretty concerned. I noticed he had shed still around his eyes about a week after the shedding, so I made several attempts over the next days to gently remove it with a wet cotton swab, which he clearly appreciated. It’s always best not to help, but hopefully you won’t need to again.
As for other things to note, his grip is very strong, he eats alot, You need to be careful not to overfeed him. Veileds are opportunistic eaters and can easily become obese. You’ll see it in a puffed out casque and cheek pads. He looks ok now, but almost like he’s on the edge. I feed all of my adult chameleons 3-4 appropriately sized feeders (or equivalent) 3 days a week, plus treats. Assuming you have isopods in his enclosure, he will probably be hunting his fair share of those too. and has not been lethargic. These make me suspect this is not an infection which is why I have not taken him to the vet yet. I dont handle him very often, although I do feed him by hand when he will let me. He gets fed mostly dubias, but also some crickets and superworms, and hornworms or silkworms when available. The dubias amd crickets are gutloaded with flukers calcium diet,This needs to be improved upon, the Fluker’s will keep the bugs alive, but not help them be healthy and nutritious. See below graphic. and I dust with herptivite multivitamins twice a month. I’m going to suggest switching to Repashy calcium Plus LoD for use once every other week. Do NOT use the Repashy calcium plus. This is too high in calcium and is full of vitamins - many of which are fat soluble and have built up in your guys body. He is getting too much vitamin D3 and preformed A, which can be just as bad as not enough. Get a plain phosphorus free calcium Without D3 to lightly dust at every feeding. I’d say to just use that for about a month and then start using the LoD once every other week. Watering was covered. Feces is normal. His cage is a 36x36x18 glass terrarium with a DIY screen extension that adds about 18 inches of additional height. Ok. If you have the space to go bigger…. I use arcadia UVB What is the strength of your bulb? It’s written on the end. and lighting, two heatlamps regulated around 90F Too hot. It’s better to keep him at no hotter than 85. for his basking spots, and have two ventilation fans that I can turn on when humidity is too high (they are seldom used in this dry weather). The terrarium has many live plants and is bioactive. He loves to chow down on syngonium anytime I put a new one in there, That’s not on the safe plant list, but looking up the toxicity and it’s the same as for pothos - has calcium oxalates crystals. he's a lawnmower. The room has a wall mounted unit which I don't use this time of year because it blows right onto his basking spot and could dry him out. During the day you do want him drier than he has been. At night, if you are able to achieve consistently a temp drop below at least 68, you can use a fogger to boost humidity all the way at night which simulates the hydration they get in the wild thru fog. I am located in southwestern Virginia.
So, I’m not a vet or even close so I can’t diagnose what is exactly going on with your guy and his eyes. However, the incorrect supplements and high humidity are certainly contributing to his problems. Correcting those issues and time will help fix those. A vet visit is always a good idea, but you’ll need to make sure that they understand that he has been getting the Repashy Calcium Plus so frequently and that it contains high D3 and preformed vitamin A. Otherwise some vets might look at an eye issue and automatically assume a vitamin A deficiency and give an injection of A, which your guy has been getting too much of.
I hope I’ve been of some help. If you have any questions, just ask.
View attachment 349843

Thanks for the great info! My vet actually recommended that I use these supplements and the flukers calcium diet without additional gutload, as well as suggesting that I use a small water dish with water dripping into it in order for him to drink from. Unfortunately, the research I've done on hydration says he is wrong, that chameleons do not drink from water dishes at all even when flowing. Instead they drink from water that gathers on or under leaves during humid mornings. Because of this, I've become more hesitant to visit that vet (the only one around), as I don't trust that he understands just how different Chameleons are from other reptiles. All that to say, I wouldn't be surprised if your advice to switch out supplements to the ones you suggested would be a smart move. I do dust the insects I feed, but not every time that he eats. I'd say I dust about half to a third of the time (which seems to be a decent move seeing what you have said about the calcium plus). I also do not feed him every day. I usually aim for 4-6 days a week of feeding. I will reduce this to 3-4 times a week, with dusting every feeding. I also only give him superworms very sparingly now as he became addicted to them once, and I've come to realize they should be used very infrequently to help fight his past addiction. I will look more into gutloading with the above graphic and attempt to incorporate this into my feeders' diets.

As for humidity, I will decrease daytime humidity to between 30 and 50%. Once again, this is another thing my vet suggested was too low for daytime humidity. The UVB is a 12% bulb, raised about 6 inches from the top of the screen cage as I found to be suggested on Chameleon Academy. There were no 6% bulbs from arcadia available at the time. I can easily raise the heatbulbs to reduce the basking spot temperature, so I'll do that until the temperature registers at 85F. Also I've done quite a bit of research into all my plants before adding them to make absolutely sure they were safe. One of the primary lists I referred to was this: https://www.madcham.de/en/pflanzen-fuers-terrarium/. This list specifically noted any potential toxins contained in those plants. Like you mentioned, syngonium had the same contents as pothos, which meant it should be safe. In fact, it has quickly become his favorite plant to eat even though there is Pothos in there too. His next favorite is the inchplant, which is also described to contain "irritants, eventually Ca-oxalates". But no problems there for him either. I know Chameleon academy and flchams have chameleon plant lists too, but this one has become my favorite. One question - isn't the 68F night time temp drop only for Jackson's chameleons? I thought panthers and veiled chams were fine with slightly higher night time temps than that.

 

[CalamityCrow]

Thanks for the great info! My vet actually recommended that I use these supplements and the flukers calcium diet without additional gutload, as well as suggesting that I use a small water dish with water dripping into it in order for him to drink from. Unfortunately, the research I've done on hydration says he is wrong, that chameleons do not drink from water dishes at all even when flowing. Instead they drink from water that gathers on or under leaves during humid mornings. Because of this, I've become more hesitant to visit that vet (the only one around), as I don't trust that he understands just how different Chameleons are from other reptiles. All that to say, I wouldn't be surprised if your advice to switch out supplements to the ones you suggested would be a smart move. I do dust the insects I feed, but not every time that he eats. I'd say I dust about half to a third of the time (which seems to be a decent move seeing what you have said about the calcium plus). I also do not feed him every day. I usually aim for 4-6 days a week of feeding. I will reduce this to 3-4 times a week, with dusting every feeding. I also only give him superworms very sparingly now as he became addicted to them once, and I've come to realize they should be used very infrequently to help fight his past addiction. I will look more into gutloading with the above graphic and attempt to incorporate this into my feeders' diets.

As for humidity, I will decrease daytime humidity to between 30 and 50%. Once again, this is another thing my vet suggested was too low for daytime humidity. The UVB is a 12% bulb, raised about 6 inches from the top of the screen cage as I found to be suggested on Chameleon Academy. There were no 6% bulbs from arcadia available at the time. I can easily raise the heatbulbs to reduce the basking spot temperature, so I'll do that until the temperature registers at 85F. Also I've done quite a bit of research into all my plants before adding them to make absolutely sure they were safe. One of the primary lists I referred to was this: https://www.madcham.de/en/pflanzen-fuers-terrarium/. This list specifically noted any potential toxins contained in those plants. Like you mentioned, syngonium had the same contents as pothos, which meant it should be safe. In fact, it has quickly become his favorite plant to eat even though there is Pothos in there too. His next favorite is the inchplant, which is also described to contain "irritants, eventually Ca-oxalates". But no problems there for him either. I know Chameleon academy and flchams have chameleon plant lists too, but this one has become my favorite. One question - isn't the 68F night time temp drop only for Jackson's chameleons? I thought panthers and veiled chams were fine with slightly higher night time temps than that.

For Panthers and even veileds, it's totally fine to drop into the 60s at night. As low as 55 is totally fine - they need that temp drop for proper bodily function and deep sleep.

you've looked through this site, right? https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/ - if not, that's premium and detailed husbandry that will give your veiled the best life possible.

 

[Beman]

Yeah here's the supplements and also some pics of the enclosure in case they help. I agree that the basking temp is slightly on the higher side but Shadewood is really good at regulating his temperature by moving just off center from the heat whenever he needs to, so I'm not super worried. I didnt mention this but the repashy calcium supplement I try to use a couple times a week, but since the roaches and crickets eat high calcium chow I don't worry too much about missing a couple dustings.

Just adding to the great feedback you already received.

So looking at your supplements I think this is where the eye issues are coming from.

He is getting too much multivitamin. The herptivite is not a very useful supplement for chameleons. While it does not have D3 or A that you have to worry about over supplementing with it also is not a plain calcium without D3.

The Repashy calcium plus really is not recommended for chams because it has much higher levels of vitamin A and D3 both of these build up in the system. You can see extra little pockets develop around the eyes when these are used too much.

Repashy calcium plus LoD version is the one we recommend but even this one we only recommend 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Then at all other feedings you would use a plain calcium without D3.

For over supplementation issues it can take weeks for their levels to regulate. It can take time for eyes to function and look the way they should.

 

[MissSkittles]

Just adding to the great feedback you already received.

So looking at your supplements I think this is where the eye issues are coming from.

He is getting too much multivitamin. The herptivite is not a very useful supplement for chameleons. While it does not have D3 or A that you have to worry about over supplementing with it also is not a plain calcium without D3.

The Repashy calcium plus really is not recommended for chams because it has much higher levels of vitamin A and D3 both of these build up in the system. You can see extra little pockets develop around the eyes when these are used too much.

Repashy calcium plus LoD version is the one we recommend but even this one we only recommend 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Then at all other feedings you would use a plain calcium without D3.

For over supplementation issues it can take weeks for their levels to regulate. It can take time for eyes to function and look the way they should.

Thank you @Beman Looking back at what I said, I mistakenly said the calcium plus is too high in calcium, when I wanted and meant to say D3.

 

[Beman]

Thank you @Beman Looking back at what I said, I mistakenly said the calcium plus is too high in calcium, when I wanted and meant to say D3.

No worries I totally read over that as well. lol

 

[tutle64]

Just adding to the great feedback you already received.

So looking at your supplements I think this is where the eye issues are coming from.

He is getting too much multivitamin. The herptivite is not a very useful supplement for chameleons. While it does not have D3 or A that you have to worry about over supplementing with it also is not a plain calcium without D3.

The Repashy calcium plus really is not recommended for chams because it has much higher levels of vitamin A and D3 both of these build up in the system. You can see extra little pockets develop around the eyes when these are used too much.

Repashy calcium plus LoD version is the one we recommend but even this one we only recommend 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Then at all other feedings you would use a plain calcium without D3.

For over supplementation issues it can take weeks for their levels to regulate. It can take time for eyes to function and look the way they should.

So for clarification, my supplementation routine is not balanced well. It sounds like what you both have said is that the current supplements have resulted in too much D3 and Vitamin A. The Repashy Calcium Plus is the biggest culprit. So if I want to reduce these levels, I should discontinue Repashy Calcium Plus and instead move to the LoD variety. However, even this should be used sparingly. According to MissSkittles I should use it every other week, and according to Beman I should use it only twice a month. Obviously I want to offer the best supplementation I can for Shadewood to keep him healthy. So what would you all suggest for a comprehensive monthly supplementation routine? Specifically which supplements do you trust the most, and when do you use them? This would be alongside a healthy selection of properly-gutloaded insects. Any resources you can provide will be greatly appreciated! I also happen to have reptivite without D3 which I havent used for Shadewood before. Is this product worth using for his supplementation?

 

[Beman]

So for clarification, my supplementation routine is not balanced well. It sounds like what you both have said is that the current supplements have resulted in too much D3 and Vitamin A. The Repashy Calcium Plus is the biggest culprit. So if I want to reduce these levels, I should discontinue Repashy Calcium Plus and instead move to the LoD variety. However, even this should be used sparingly. According to MissSkittles I should use it every other week, and according to Beman I should use it only twice a month. Obviously I want to offer the best supplementation I can for Shadewood to keep him healthy. So what would you all suggest for a comprehensive monthly supplementation routine? Specifically which supplements do you trust the most, and when do you use them? This would be alongside a healthy selection of properly-gutloaded insects. Any resources you can provide will be greatly appreciated! I also happen to have reptivite without D3 which I havent used for Shadewood before. Is this product worth using for his supplementation?

Yes, exactly.

So I personally use repashy products. I use repashy NoD which is a plain calcium without D3. This would be used at every feeding unless it is a multivitamin day. Then I use repashy calcium Plus LoD 2 times a month which works out to every other week. All supplements are lightly dusted on insects. Repashy supplements are done so that they are a very fine powder and do not over coat insects like some of the others.

With the reptivite I personally do not like it. It has a higher phosphorus ratio which is actually what we are trying to reduce when we dust our feeders with calcium. The calcium balances the phosphorus to calcium ratio of the insects you feed.

 

[MzLaurie]

So for clarification, my supplementation routine is not balanced well. It sounds like what you both have said is that the current supplements have resulted in too much D3 and Vitamin A. The Repashy Calcium Plus is the biggest culprit. So if I want to reduce these levels, I should discontinue Repashy Calcium Plus and instead move to the LoD variety. However, even this should be used sparingly. According to MissSkittles I should use it every other week, and according to Beman I should use it only twice a month. Obviously I want to offer the best supplementation I can for Shadewood to keep him healthy. So what would you all suggest for a comprehensive monthly supplementation routine? Specifically which supplements do you trust the most, and when do you use them? This would be alongside a healthy selection of properly-gutloaded insects. Any resources you can provide will be greatly appreciated! I also happen to have reptivite without D3 which I havent used for Shadewood before. Is this product worth using for his supplementation?

I use Reptivite and calcium with no D3. Dust each feeding with calcium and on the first and fifteenth change with the Reptivite. Vit A has a good effect on the eyes but you can overdo it. This system seems pretty good for me. Amazon should have what you need and if it says plus extra supplements avoid it. Flukers makes a good calcium without D3 and Reptivite makes a good multi with D3/ good luck to you both