Advice Needed!!! Milton barely eating, runny fecal, leg bump, old eye issue,
- Thread starter Chameleon87
- Start date
Dr O
Veterinarian
Cham87--
i'm really sorry that you're having to deal with all of this--you obviously care a great deal and he's got some issues that are more than minor and appear to be compunding each other at this point.
the absolute one thing that i want you to take away at his point is that the internal things that are going on have been serious enough to cause this ongoing case of uveitis, and i really suspect that he has other organ damage and/or infections going on in his body. and my point here is that if time and money were of no consequence, he should be at a veterinary university. no one can ever come close to the care and experience of the doctor's there; they're the ones that write the articles that make it into books and trickle into forums like this years later.
i've hospitalized many a cham in my time with catheters in their bones for fluids and medications, and many other intensive care procedures. IMO he's at the point where he really needs that kind of care while either a hunt is going on for the source of the problems, or a shotgun regimen of medication is trying to hold him in the meantime. and unfortuantely the fragile nature of chams makes hospitialization dicey sometimes, so it's just kind of a gut instinct---if you can afford it, do you want to try whatever you can to help him and possibly save his life, or not risk the experience/or pay the money and accept that you may lose him.
i wish there were more that i could do for you across my keyboard, but IMO he's at that point where that kind of care is called for. there's just too much going on here and it is getting quite confusing to follow with the length of time and cross-posting. and it sounds like time is becoming of the essence as well.
dr. o-
i'm really sorry that you're having to deal with all of this--you obviously care a great deal and he's got some issues that are more than minor and appear to be compunding each other at this point.
the absolute one thing that i want you to take away at his point is that the internal things that are going on have been serious enough to cause this ongoing case of uveitis, and i really suspect that he has other organ damage and/or infections going on in his body. and my point here is that if time and money were of no consequence, he should be at a veterinary university. no one can ever come close to the care and experience of the doctor's there; they're the ones that write the articles that make it into books and trickle into forums like this years later.
i've hospitalized many a cham in my time with catheters in their bones for fluids and medications, and many other intensive care procedures. IMO he's at the point where he really needs that kind of care while either a hunt is going on for the source of the problems, or a shotgun regimen of medication is trying to hold him in the meantime. and unfortuantely the fragile nature of chams makes hospitialization dicey sometimes, so it's just kind of a gut instinct---if you can afford it, do you want to try whatever you can to help him and possibly save his life, or not risk the experience/or pay the money and accept that you may lose him.
i wish there were more that i could do for you across my keyboard, but IMO he's at that point where that kind of care is called for. there's just too much going on here and it is getting quite confusing to follow with the length of time and cross-posting. and it sounds like time is becoming of the essence as well.
dr. o-
Elizadolots
New Member
It's good that he's drinking a lot. What are the temps at the top of the cage? If he was just hanging out at the bottom, not laying down or anything, it's possible he was feeling too hot so went low to cool down.
Is there a veterinary school near you? If so, contact them.
Is there a veterinary school near you? If so, contact them.
Chameleon87
New Member
Nope no vet school near me. I think he was hot yesterday and went to the bottom to cool down. Having a serious prob with humidity in the room, I cleaned and sterilized his whole cage and set up yesterday and unfortunately broke my ultrasonic humidifier i just started to use so now Im back to a plain one.
He drank some this morning, tried putting silk worms in right now, he just stares at them. He's still kind of a dark color but has firm grip and everything when I have to give him his antibiotic.
Should I just continue to force feed cricket mush solution, or try to force feed a worm? Has anyone heard of "chameleon Critical care" Vet advised to order and start it. All I see online is critical care formula.
He drank some this morning, tried putting silk worms in right now, he just stares at them. He's still kind of a dark color but has firm grip and everything when I have to give him his antibiotic.
Should I just continue to force feed cricket mush solution, or try to force feed a worm? Has anyone heard of "chameleon Critical care" Vet advised to order and start it. All I see online is critical care formula.
Chameleon87
New Member
!!! Think he prolapsed
I'm so upset,
I've been doing everything I can and giving him fluids, showers, got new humidifier to increase humidity, trying to feed him.
Right now I let him get sun outside after the shower and it looks like he passed another sperm plug. He wiped it on the tree but it was bloody (See pic).
After he passed it on the left of his vent a red bulge came out about the size of a bi bi and sucked back in twice. Seemed to do it at the same timing as his breathing. Didn't get a pic because it went back in fortunately.
His vent seems to have been swollen lately, I have KY jelly on hand just in case...
This happened right after I gave him the pedialyte water and baytril. He also passed a sperm plug last time after the baytril but it looked normal.
Is he trying to push and pass stuff cuz of the anti-biotic???
I'm so upset,
I've been doing everything I can and giving him fluids, showers, got new humidifier to increase humidity, trying to feed him.Right now I let him get sun outside after the shower and it looks like he passed another sperm plug. He wiped it on the tree but it was bloody (See pic).
After he passed it on the left of his vent a red bulge came out about the size of a bi bi and sucked back in twice. Seemed to do it at the same timing as his breathing. Didn't get a pic because it went back in fortunately.
His vent seems to have been swollen lately, I have KY jelly on hand just in case...
This happened right after I gave him the pedialyte water and baytril. He also passed a sperm plug last time after the baytril but it looked normal.
Is he trying to push and pass stuff cuz of the anti-biotic???
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Dr O
Veterinarian
Pretty nasty stuff for sure, but better out than in in this case. I don't believe the temporary bulging is an issue, that was probably just him straining a little making sure everything was pushed out. But you know that I believe he's got another issue (or two) in his body, and a bloody sperm plug is not common. I'm glad he's on Baytril, but I sure know that Baytril is not the wonder antibiotic that it used to be either; I get back so many culture and sensitivities where Baytril doesn't work that it's never my first "reach for" drug anymore.
One thing I do want to point out is that I've certainly seen Baytril cause anorexia, probably due to nausea from the higher doses that we typically use in reptiles. BTW, you had mentioned his volume dose but not the concentration, so I can't double check the dosage. Anyway, I just wanted to mention it because I've certainly had my own chams not eat well or even at all when going through a Baytril regimen.
Wish I lived in Las Cruces, buddy. It sucks watching a case like this from a distance, but I just don't know how valuable any of my advice is. What I would give for an MRI, rads, bloodwork, and an ICU for him.
:-(
dr. o-
One thing I do want to point out is that I've certainly seen Baytril cause anorexia, probably due to nausea from the higher doses that we typically use in reptiles. BTW, you had mentioned his volume dose but not the concentration, so I can't double check the dosage. Anyway, I just wanted to mention it because I've certainly had my own chams not eat well or even at all when going through a Baytril regimen.
Wish I lived in Las Cruces, buddy. It sucks watching a case like this from a distance, but I just don't know how valuable any of my advice is. What I would give for an MRI, rads, bloodwork, and an ICU for him.
:-(
dr. o-
Chameleon87
New Member
The dosage on the baytril is 5 mg/mL. Thanks so much for you help and concern I really appreciate it. It's just hard finding good care for him around here, Las Cruces is in the middle of the desert so it's hard to find a vet that has seen very many chameleons and even the vets with experience in reptiles usually have experience with desert reptiles.
Do you suggest I continue with a 50/50 pedialyte water mixture with mashed up crickets and im adding flukers reptile/insectivore emergency aid. He really seems to like it and gulps it down.
Do you suggest I continue with a 50/50 pedialyte water mixture with mashed up crickets and im adding flukers reptile/insectivore emergency aid. He really seems to like it and gulps it down.
Dr O
Veterinarian
Definitely continue it, particularly if he is not being stressed by getting it. And for that matter, don't be too surprised that he's not eating tremendously on his own between you force feeding him high quality products and the anorexic effect of Baytril. If you or I were being force fed and nauseous at the same time, how many burgers would you help yourself to? Just a little perspective--
Speaking of which, the dose is presumably ok going by the old weight of 145g, but I don't know if it may have changed dramatically. (though I doubt it, that's about average weight).
o-
Speaking of which, the dose is presumably ok going by the old weight of 145g, but I don't know if it may have changed dramatically. (though I doubt it, that's about average weight).
o-
Dr O
Veterinarian
My vet school was across the river from Flukers. One of the best cham days of my life was when they had gotten in a shipment of several hundred Jackson's (Flukers was also in the live trade at the time). So not only did I and a classmate get to deworm several hundred chams in a GIANT cage 2 weeks apart, but for their gratitude they told me I could have whatever cham I wanted. I walked away with my first Nosy Be that day. That's the one who swallowed his tongue in some other story that I posted..
Anyhoo, I've always loved Flukers. I've got a photo somewhere of me with about 50 Jackson's crawling all over my body.
Anyhoo, I've always loved Flukers. I've got a photo somewhere of me with about 50 Jackson's crawling all over my body.
Chameleon87
New Member
Haha that's awesome! sounds like a great experience. He is around 190 gm now.
He always has a darker color lately, particularly around the eyes/face could this be a result of the nausea?
The vet talked about "Chameleon critical care" all I've seen is Critical Care Formula on the internet, should I get some of that for him as well?
He always has a darker color lately, particularly around the eyes/face could this be a result of the nausea?
The vet talked about "Chameleon critical care" all I've seen is Critical Care Formula on the internet, should I get some of that for him as well?
Dr O
Veterinarian
could be.
i don't know what they're referring to, but i'll bet a phone call to their office will get you the clarification that you need. and i think the vet would be interested in hearing about his status, even if it's through a message from the receptionist.
o-
Chameleon87
New Member
Looking Better
Update: Talked to vet, she said continue with baytril, etc.
Yesterday:
Gave him a shower yesterday and some flukers insectivore emergency aid. Tried opening his mouth and putting a whole cricket in, he ate 2!
Had to go to school to take finals so it was too late when I got home and he would not take the anti-biotic mixed with the emergency aid.
Today:
Drank this morning from the dripper and mister. Tried putting crickets in a cricket trap I made he stared at em... Took 1 out put it on the screen and he tried to shoot it but it was like his tongue didn't go far enough, he looked puzzled.
Moved the cricket closer, and success!! He snagged it . Added a silk worm... success!! another snag!! Tried a hornworm but he didn't want it but maybe he's full.
His colors better and he seems to want to eat off of the baytril.
Update: Talked to vet, she said continue with baytril, etc.
Yesterday:
Gave him a shower yesterday and some flukers insectivore emergency aid. Tried opening his mouth and putting a whole cricket in, he ate 2!
Had to go to school to take finals so it was too late when I got home and he would not take the anti-biotic mixed with the emergency aid.
Today:
Drank this morning from the dripper and mister. Tried putting crickets in a cricket trap I made he stared at em... Took 1 out put it on the screen and he tried to shoot it but it was like his tongue didn't go far enough, he looked puzzled.
Moved the cricket closer, and success!! He snagged it
. Added a silk worm... success!! another snag!! Tried a hornworm but he didn't want it but maybe he's full.His colors better and he seems to want to eat off of the baytril.
Dr O
Veterinarian
Chameleon87
New Member
Update:
Gave him 2 hornworms today, he gobbled both down and gave him his anti-biotics later on. Think he's getting back on track!
He seemed to like the silkworms but unfortunately...
DO NOT leave your worm cup on the table in the same room as your mischievous ferret even for one night... even though it's 4 feet off the ground he will find a way to make if up and you'll wake up and find a turned over worm cup and a ferret with a very fat belly...
Lesson learned
Gave him 2 hornworms today, he gobbled both down and gave him his anti-biotics later on. Think he's getting back on track!
He seemed to like the silkworms but unfortunately...
DO NOT leave your worm cup on the table in the same room as your mischievous ferret even for one night... even though it's 4 feet off the ground he will find a way to make if up and you'll wake up and find a turned over worm cup and a ferret with a very fat belly...
Lesson learned
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Chameleon87
New Member
So now that my guy is back on track I have another question, if he hasn't been eating for 2.5 weeks and started eating three days ago how long should it be tell he poops?
He's been drinking and eaten 5 crickets, 2 silkworms, and 3 hornworms (2 inch+) along with the small amount of flukers insectivore aid I give him mixed with his baytril everyday.
Does anyone know what this soft bulge on his chest might be? Just feels like poofy skin, maybe due to weight loss from not eating that long time?
He's been drinking and eaten 5 crickets, 2 silkworms, and 3 hornworms (2 inch+) along with the small amount of flukers insectivore aid I give him mixed with his baytril everyday.
Does anyone know what this soft bulge on his chest might be? Just feels like poofy skin, maybe due to weight loss from not eating that long time?
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Elizadolots
New Member
They can take a really long time to poop...as a human, I'm going to say you will find it far too long for comfort...but we've seen stories of chameleons going weeks (not the "s") without pooping, then pooing BIG and being fine.
