Advice Needed!!! Milton barely eating, runny fecal, leg bump, old eye issue,

Chameleon87

New Member
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Milton “the Monster: is a 3 yr 4 month old male panther chameleon.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
I handle him fairly often, he likes to come out of his cage and go on the ficus tree I have to put him outside in order for him to get some natural sunlight. He is very laid back and friendly, never hissed at me except when I had to give him antibiotics through a syringe before.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Primarily crickets and superworms. I feed him 5-6 crickets per day and the occasional superworm when he will eat them. He has not eaten very much lately, been sporadic. I gutload the crickets with lettuce and carrots and started using collard greens lately. I have ordered silkworms, hornworms, phoenix worms and wax worms before. He won’t touch the last two, and ate a silk worm once and that was it. He ate a green hornworm a few times but I dunno if it upset his stomach or what just stared at them after that.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Rep cal. Calcium (5 times/week), Calcium w/ D3 (1 time/week), Herptavite multivitamins (1/week). Concerned that since he hasn’t been eating as often not getting the proper amount of vitamins.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Yes I see him drinking in the morning when I start the water dripper, I don’t mist by hand put have a mist king that goes on 5 cycles per day for 3-4 minutes each time.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
This is one of the major problems associated with this post. He has had irregular bowl movements for the last 2 weeks, probably only seen two. Each one has been extremely runny, almost like a glob of mucous. Urates are slightly orange sometimes, other times normal. I would upload a picture but somehow they got erased of the last ones I took. Plan on getting the next fecal tested.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Have loved having him. Unfortunately about 1.5 years ago something happened to his eye, I took him to the vet after it didn’t get any better and the vet rx some prednisone eye drops which seemed to help him but I have run out. The vet didn’t see any function problems with his eye but it is alarming that his eye is all black now, you can see no pupil. He still occasionally closes it =(

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Screen cage, used to be metal mesh then I recently built a new cage that uses plastic mesh. The cage is 24x24x48. The bottom is mesh and below I have a 5 gal bucket to catch the water. Crickets started eating some of the mesh... pissed off and worried about probs it may have caused Milton.

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Reptisun 5.0 UVB linear 24” tube (had a dual ballast w/ two 24” but it started smoking due to a short – luckily I was there at the time so right now I am limited to one), recently added two 48” fluorescent lights hanging above the cage to add more fluorescent type light to the cage. Have 1 100w basking lamp above the cage and two 100W irricadescent on the top sides. Recently upped the lighting schedule to 7:00 am – 7:00 pm due to the change in season and light.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
90-95 F at top of cage, basking spot is several inches below however so it is slightly cooler. Over night the temps get in the low 70’s. I have a digital thermometer w/ probe.

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Have a heated humidifier in the room to the bottom left of the cage, I use a regular humidity gauge to measure the humidity. Ranges from 40-60% depending on if the door is closed to the room.

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Yes ficus plant. Attached pictures of my cage set up.

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
The cage is located on a stand about 3.5 feet off the floor and nearly extends to the ceiling. There is an A/C vent that blows directly on the cage but I have hung a washcloth in front of it to block a direct draft. He is in a separate room out of the high traffic areas, unfortunately it doesn’t receive as much natural light as the rest of my house.

Location - Where are you geographically located?
Las Cruces, NM. Southeastern NM close to El Paso, TX. Does anyone know any good reptile vets with experience with chameleons around Las Cruces, NM or El Paso, TX?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
His fecal is very loose and almost like mucous, will post a pic as soon as I get one (see fecal section above – got erased accidentally). Next time he goes I plan on saving it and taking it to the vet for a sample
. He has never been tested for parasites. When I took him to the vet before for his eye (see history section above) the vet also rx baytril antibiotic. Since I haven’t seen him eat recently I gave him some last night with some flukers reptile emergency aid (paste to help provide nutrition during periods of not eating/drinking).

There is a small hard bump at the back of his right leg, I attached a picture but it is not very clear. Will upload a better one later after I get it off of my camera.

Basically I know he needs a vet trip, trying to arrange it once he goes to the bathroom so I can take in a sample but after taking a look at attached pics I need to know basically what to ask the vet to look for. I have searched the forum and other pages for reptile vets in my area that have experience with chameleons but haven’t found any. Took him up to Albuquerque, NM (225 miles) before to see a vet and on the east side of el paso (70 miles), but was really unsatisfied with their treatment… basically they examined him and then went and pulled out a book. When I took him to the vet last (11-2010), I know a long time ago he weighed 145 gm.

Will also attach a full body pic of him taken yesterday when I get home.

Thanks so much you input is appreciated greatly.
 

Attachments

Elizadolots

New Member
Hi! He's very handsome. Can he hunt with the one weird eye? Do you cup feed? I think you are on the right track taking the next poop to the vet. He doesn't look the least bit thin so I wouldn't be overly worried about forcing food on him at this point.
 

Chameleon87

New Member
Thanks for the response Elizadots, yes he can hunt fine with it and see out of it too, can track objects and look at things normally. The other day he was blinking it (strange though could see the inner part of hie eyelid like he was rolling the eye back). Sometimes it looks sunken in too, I added some more pictures. He just seems to close it sometimes when he is basking or sitting there, maybe it got injured awhile back and it just irritates him to use it too often?

I've tried to cup feed before but he takes no interest =( I would like to make one like some I've seen on the forums and see if he will be interested.

I know I don't really force feed him but he at least likes the taste of that flukers paste, the baytril I put in it is cherry flavored, he's not a big fan of it lol.

Added pictures of him today (nearly jumped out of the cage on me - guess he wanted outside?), better cage pic, pic of the bump and eye closed.
 

Attachments

Elizadolots

New Member
Just Eliza!

That deal with the eye is weird...I wonder if anyone else has experience with something like that.

That's a much better picture of the "bump"... I think that needs to be on your list of things to discuss with the vet. It might be something very benign like a fat cyst. Or not..I just don't know.

I think I would make an appointment for the vet asap and just hope for a sample. It's not uncommon for them to take the trip as an opportunity to poop.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
IMHO you should have continued with the old thread so that we all realize what chameleon you are talking about and what has been going on with it in the last little while.

The bump on the leg could be a number of things...infection, cyst, tumor, etc. You need to take it to a vet to have it checked out IMHO. I would not think its MBD but then I'm just telling you that from my own experience, etc. as I'm not a vet.
 

Chameleon87

New Member
Long post, but please take a look!! Need help with Milton!

Ok unfortunately some of my info (relating to concern #3) is on another thread; https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-eye-completely-black-shut-82023/

Concern #1: Not Eating
My cham has barely eaten in the last 2 weeks and has had fecal that is not solid and mucous like. Seems to be getting more lethargic and not taking interest in feeders, he watched em but does nothing.

His weight was 190 gm.

I took him to a vet on Friday and Monday, the vet administered Pancur, Ivometic, and Flagyl in case there were any parasites

I have yet to get a fecal sample to get a fecal done because he has not really gone in the past 1 1/2 weeks, except for 2 days after the vet administered the meds, unfortunately it was outside while I was letting him get some sun and when I noticed it the next day it was so dry it turned into dust when I tried to pick it up..

Concern 2: Vitamin A; possibly other deficiency
Concerned about vitamin A deficiency, need to get new supplements and feeders. Also, gutloading with carrots and using the herptivite it has beta carotene and am concerned he hasn't been able to process Vit A correctly.
Takes him a long time to shed; worried about the effect on his eye mentioned below. Has had some hemipenal sperm plugs as well.

Need advice on what new supplements & feeders to order please!!! Looked at sandrachameleons blogs but soo much info I'm almost overwhelemed am am a student going through finals and don't have the time to extensively filter though it until after next Thursday.

Going to have to order feeders because pet shops around here only sell crickets and superworms and wax worms (he wont touch em). Thinking silk worms and hornworms but when I ordered em before he really took no interest, what else is really good.

Concern #3: Long-term eye issue
Please see related post in link above for full details but he has damage to his right eye. It is severely constricted and very dark and seems to cause irritation when using if for long periods of time but he is able to see and track movement etc. out of it.

Vet was inexperienced with this (and chams in general but best I got locate around here on short notice), prescribed Atropine Sulfate, luckily w/ advice of kevinopp I learned it is ineffective on reptilian eyes, got Prednisolone Acetate Suspension to help with comfort, helps him keep his eye open for a much longer period of time.

Just don't have any idea where to go from here with the eye issue.

Concern 4: Bump behind right leg
There was a hard mass behind his right leg, I assume it was a cyst the vet made a small puncture with a needle (cham didn't even notice it) and squeezed a little bit and clear fluid came out and the bump is gone now.
 

Chameleon87

New Member
Help anyone? :confused:

Put him up today after putting an eye drop in and he kept trying to grab his front legs with the back ones. Hasn't moved since I put him up..
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Is the bump on his leg growing?

Grasping legs with other legs is sometimes a sign of MBD....how are his calcium levels?
 

Chameleon87

New Member
In concern 4 I addressed the bump, vet punctured it with a needle. Must have been a cyst, clear liquid came out it's fine now. Calcium probably low cuz I cant get him to eat. did you looked at last post?
 

Chameleon87

New Member
Cham isn't moving now, When I put him back in his cage yesterday after giving him some sun I almost had to force him off my hand.

He's been in the same place since 5 yesterday and just staring outside through the window. Not eating and I made the dripper literally drip on him didn't see him drink....

Taking him back to the vet tomorrow, but I've read about giving 50/50 pedialyte also about mashing it with bugs and giving it to him through a syringe orally?

Any ideas?
 

ataraxia

Avid Member
Taking him to a qualified chameleon vet is your best option. Not just any vet that says " they see reptiles".

Honestly i can keep giving you suggestions but truly im just an average keeper going off of pictures without truly knowing this chameleon first hand.

I will comment on the runny stools and meds used: If this is his first runny stool i would wait for the next one or two. If they are runny also. I would have the vet look into kidney damage, infection or possible parasites.

Shot gunning parasite meds as you have is a guessing game. Also the meds can not just be shot gunned once and think all will be ok. You have to follow the proper dosing and regimen for each med. Doing them once dose nothing. Flagyl imo is a great drug but has to be used properly. It also can treat different things at different dosing strengths. The drugs you used will not treat the variety of parasites a chameleon can have.

Ivomec: I have no experience with this drug but from what i googled. It is not a good drug to use on reptiles.

Im going to re state this again..You need to see a vet that see's chameleons on a regular basis. A normal vet is not going to help his needs. If you continue taking him ot these types of vets your problems will probably still exist or worsen and your bank account will deplete into the deep dark abyss.
 

Chameleon87

New Member
Lol, I hear you on the bank account dark abyss, college student here using loan money. I know, luckily I have located a vet clinic in El Paso, TX about an 1 - 1.5 hr trip for me and will be taking him there tomorrow.

The vet is supposed to be an exotics specialist w/ experience in reptiles and I asked if she had specific experience with chameleons and was surprised to hear a yes!! She's the former president of the vet medical association so I'm hoping she knows her stuff.

Ordered him some hornworms and silkworms last night, some Sticky Tongues Miner-All-I, and a Repahsy feeder gutload, a new UVB light and bought a ton of veggies for crickets. Now I just have to get him to eat em. Made a cricket trap, anyone have advice on how to get him to eat out of it after hes used to just hunting around his cage?

I read one of your former posts Ataraxia on another thread about 50/50 pedialyte and crushing crickets (removing limbs and head). I did that with 5 crickets and added a little bit of heptivite, calcium, and 1 drop of cod liver oil and gave it to him earlier this afternoon.

He was basically licking his lips (if he had any lol) kept swallowing and sticking his tongue out and opening his mouth for more. Seemed happy to be letting me squirt it in his mouth. In the end he got 3 1 mL syringes worth.

Sucked to have to feed him like that but made me smile :D
 

Elizadolots

New Member
It's good he's accepting food. I suspect he's picked up a parasite. They can get them from feeders, so it's not like it's something you could prevent.

Keep up the feedings and let us know what the specialist says.
 

ataraxia

Avid Member
Lol, I hear you on the bank account dark abyss, college student here using loan money. I know, luckily I have located a vet clinic in El Paso, TX about an 1 - 1.5 hr trip for me and will be taking him there tomorrow.

The vet is supposed to be an exotics specialist w/ experience in reptiles and I asked if she had specific experience with chameleons and was surprised to hear a yes!! She's the former president of the vet medical association so I'm hoping she knows her stuff.

Ask her a few question about chameleons. Feel her knowledge out and see if she asnswers your questions correctly. I really hope she knows her stuff for your guys sake :)

Ordered him some hornworms and silkworms last night, some Sticky Tongues Miner-All-I, and a Repahsy feeder gutload, a new UVB light and bought a ton of veggies for crickets. Now I just have to get him to eat em. Made a cricket trap, anyone have advice on how to get him to eat out of it after hes used to just hunting around his cage?

I read one of your former posts Ataraxia on another thread about 50/50 pedialyte and crushing crickets (removing limbs and head). I did that with 5 crickets and added a little bit of heptivite, calcium, and 1 drop of cod liver oil and gave it to him earlier this afternoon.

Thats awesome. Just be careful with the fish oil. Im sure you probably read that in the post also ;)

He was basically licking his lips (if he had any lol) kept swallowing and sticking his tongue out and opening his mouth for more. Seemed happy to be letting me squirt it in his mouth. In the end he got 3 1 mL syringes worth.

Thats a bunch of food. Im really glad he is accepting this.

Sucked to have to feed him like that but made me smile :D
Thats awesome man. Hope and wish the two of you some relief soon enough.
 

Chameleon87

New Member
After 3rd vet trip still looking for help

Since I gave him the cricket/ pedialyte mix through a syringe yesterday he seems to have a much stronger grip and moves around a little bit but still likes to just it next to the back of the cage and stare out the window.

Ok, I took him to the vet... sigh. The receptionist screwed up and the vet I wanted to see with more experience is on vacation!!! I had him see a vet anyways since I made an 1.5 hr trip who has seen chameleons but has 5 yrs less experience with them than the other one. It's really unfortunate that both of these vets say this is the best looking, largest and oldest chameleon (3.5 yrs) they have ever seen. Seems most people around here know nothing about them when they buy them, bring them in within the first month and they don't make it. Makes me very sad :(

She was able to get ahold of the out of town one and consult with her over the phone though, I had seen. She recommended a baytril regiment (2 weeks @ 0.19 mL per day) and getting "Chameleon Critical Care" and giving him that along with 50/50 pedialyte & water. I can't find this online, all I've seen is "Critical Care Formula (CCF)" does anyone know about it?

I've been really concerned about his vitamin intake so I had the vet give him a Vit A and Vit D shot (when I took him there 2 years ago for his eye they gave him one too & he did fine so I wasn't too worried about the dosage). Because I was worried about his intake I had them take an X-ray of him as well to look at his bones and organs (was worried about kidney failure- have read it is associated with impaction/difficulty passing stool). His X-rays turned out very well which was good!! Will upload pics of them later.

He seemed good last night when I got home, gave him some 50/50 pedialyte and water with the 0.19 mL baytril and he went to bed just fine. I woke up this morning and he didn't look too well. Eyes and face looked really dark and seemed to have dark blotches on his body and not happy.

I pulled him out to give him some more pedialyte and water and took pics of him. His right eye looks sunken but that's due to the chronic problem he has with it (still giving prednisolone acetate) I noticed he had another thing hanging out of his butt. Looks like a sperm plug like before??? Could he be upset from the baytil? Or is this good that he's passing this after I gave it to him. Also when I took him to the other vet 5 days ago and he got the combo of meds (look above in thread) he took a poop the day after. Based off this I'm really thinking it's a parasite.

Ordered silkworms and hornworms that just came in, got to pick them up at the post office, hopefully he will want to eat one.

Anyone have any ideas??? Please I know other chams have looked much worse but I love him and and freaking out about him.
 

Attachments

Elizadolots

New Member
Is he lying down? Have you called the vet to report what you are seeing?

Keep hydrating him and, if possible, see if you can get more nutrition into him.

Keep in mind that the people here are just regular folks. While some have veterinary backgrounds, they also have jobs, families and lives. You might not get an immediate response whenever you post. Starting additional threads does not attract the right kind of attention and generally leads to a) confusion and b) lectures like this on not starting additional threads.
 

Chameleon87

New Member
I know people on here have regular lives and are just trying to help, and I thank everyone for looking at it. I just think I typed too much and people were having trouble with it.

Will not make any other threads.

He's in the shower right now drinking a lot, still dark though. Wasn't "lying down" just sitting there
 
Top Bottom