50/50 cross breed Questions

i have owned chameleons for 6 years now, just got into the panthers tho, had a flapneck and a graceful for sometime and i just got back from the marines and wanted to start up again
 
Juxocyde said:
btw chevys CorvetteZR1 sells for $106,880 starting, check it out.

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/
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And I have yet to see one on the road :rolleyes: However I see a Porsche or two everyday. Just saying - as this is really in no way relevant to the topic.


@ ChamFreak
but mate you can't just go around with a website saying "Oh har har - this website disprove author" which is sort of exactly what you sounded like... minus the "oh har har" :)

Im not trying to knock Kammers either - they really do have beautiful animals. But until someone comes and says "here is my breeding list that shows cross bred males as sires" ( with healthy clutches being produced ), or until a more recent author is given - in which his writings disprove with scientific facts what Dorval is saying - your claim has no value.

and yes you have been a member here for a while - but membership and owning a chameleon are two different things. Which is why I think post count is a silly way to go from junior member to member to senior.
 
i dont know if your talking to the right person on half of that post, im not trying to disprove anyone scientific findings or theories, i actually read that part of the book as well which made me come to ask the question of what is thought about the idea, i havent been a member for a while but i have owned chameleons for a while and the thought of crossbreeding came up since i recently got a ambanja ambilobe cross and was interested in getting a couple of cross females to match up for him.
 
Juxocyde said:
i dont know if your talking to the right person on half of that post, im not trying to disprove anyone scientific findings or theories, i actually read that part of the book as well which made me come to ask the question of what is thought about the idea, i havent been a member for a while but i have owned chameleons for a while and the thought of crossbreeding came up since i recently got a ambanja ambilobe cross and was interested in getting a couple of cross females to match up for him.
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As you can see, I edited to be speaking to chamfreak. Sorry for the mixup, no the second half was not aimed at you at all. Though I think it is worth consideration.
 
i see, and i have put that into consideration, im more interested in the potential knowledge that can be experienced with these tests. you said it yourself, his theory has yet to be proven, well, give me some time and i can prove or disprove it through an actual case study
 
Juxocyde said:
fyi i am also not out to make money just support a hobby and love for the species.
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Just saying that if you "loved the species" you wouldn't express it by screwing with the locals and saying it was to inspire the public. I would suggest using your enthusiasm and starting with a pure panther. Moving forwards into mixes as the time sees fit.

As for breeding, mate I really doubt you are going to even make back the money you invested - but if your ok losing money in the name of the hobby----- well its your cash, and no one can tell you how to spend it.

But your going to be mighty sad when no one wants to buy your mix chams. Even Julirs - who has some mighty good chams behind her name - had a hell of a time selling of her mix stock. I almost got one from her, but it being mixed - and with a Sambava becoming available at a cheaper price.... ok it was a really nice Sambava... Lol, the choice was easy. Though I still think her mixes were beautiful :). I just wouldn't buy one at the moment.
 
what would make you assume I have never owned any chameleons because I havent read a author your reguarding about?

just because I havent been informed of a author your talking about and made a comment about a breeder that has been breeding morphs for years and saying if that was so how are they doing it then?

you are correct I am sure about this and I am sure he did exclusive research but, they are breeding morphs so I made that comment since if they are sterile then I would assume they would stop...

Btw, I have had veiled's, senegals, jackson and now a panthers.... Just in case you wondered...
 
im not "screwing with the locales" more like, getting a better understanding, doesnt seem like anyone on this forum has any hard evidence of cross breeds except that they dont sell well, well thats a pretty messed up way at looking at something, whatever happened to doing something because it interests you, even if it doesnt sell... if everyone is so worried about the money involved, ill write a book about the knowledge i gained through my experiences.
 
ChamFreak said:
what would make you assume I have never owned any chameleons because I havent read a author your reguarding about?

just because I havent been informed of a author your talking about and made a comment about a breeder that has been breeding morphs for years and saying if that was so how are they doing it then?

you are correct I am sure about this and I am sure he did exclusive research but, they are breeding morphs so I made that comment since if they are sterile then I would assume they would stop...

Btw, I have had veiled's, senegals, jackson and now a panthers.... Just in case you wondered...
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Im kind of confused by your entire post. I never assumed you never owned a chameleon before, I was going by your most recent post about skittles and such. Also your signature only listed two morph panthers. However I never "assumed" that you did not have any chameleons before.

The "you may be a member here for a long time but owning a cham" part was more referencing that being a member on these forums and having breeding experience - are very different things.

On the computer forums I visit - so many people go by what they have read from others - rather than what they have practiced.

Other than that... I need you to clarify exactly what your saying in this post, because I haven't a clue mate.
 
Juxocyde said:
awww syn you usually always have something to say in these things, i wanna get some imput from you too.
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To be honest, I don't think I have enough experience with crosses to give a good opinion worth reading. Sorry.
 
Syn said:
To be honest, I don't think I have enough experience with crosses to give a good opinion worth reading. Sorry.
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yea this post really blew up into something outrageous, didnt know it was such a touchy subject for some. back in the day i would have been burned for talking such hethonistic remarks
 
I knew it would be risky..

I knew that I just never knew about this topic on hand... I see the valid points... I just thought it would be hard to sell the offspring.. I am breeding a morph as well as pure Sambava's so I thought it would balance it out...

I dont know what is in store for me but, I await the challenge...
 
Juxocyde said:
yea this post really blew up into something outrageous, didnt know it was such a touchy subject for some. back in the day i would have been burned for talking such hethonistic remarks
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Its not nearly as outrageous as you make it out to be mate. Its a discussion.

I get frustrated when people start saying things that they really have little knowledge about.

However as long as you both know and expect to make little money ... I would say less than it costs to breed and raise the babies... then go for it. With all proper research and care perfected beforehand of course.

However I agree with Chamoh in a go a little further in saying that you want to mix panthers so that people disinterested in panthers originally may become interested in them - was perhaps the stupidest reasons to breed I have ever heard of.

Wait wait....

There was a guy who wanted to breed panthers and sell them for $50 to people who had lost there pets because the pet stores gave them false information. Its not stupid because of the way it sounds, its stupid because its impractical.

There is also the Chamnoob who wants to breed his panthers, but does not know what the terms "blood lines" "locality" and "heredity" mean. He is the same guy that thought his chameleon ate some bark and decided it would be ok if it died and that he would just buy another.

Yes, people are a little sensitive on this forum- but not without good reason.
 
I think this discussion has been quite polite, interesting and thought provoking...what more could I want?

I have a natural tendency to rebel when people claim "sanctity of the breed"...sorry, it has a bad vibe for me.

I'm also amused (not in a good way) by people who maintain animals in captivity and breed those animals for sale who then try to take a moral high ground against people who try to breed animals from different "breeds" or "locales".

I find that hypocritical and annoying...not that my opinion matters.

Once we put them in the cage we gave up all right to pretend we were protecting the natural order of things. If someone wants to breed animals from different locales, that's as much their right as it was ours to put our animals in a cage. Just my opinion.
 
i was more stating the posability of opening the doors for those who werent originally interested. not everyone wants to breed chameleons, and in the same token, not everyone wants a pure breed that his neighbor can get as well. Fact is, if there is something out there that is different and unique from the next guy, there is going to be someone out there that will want it. it simple, just as an example, why do you think there are so many aftermarket parts for cars, people want to be different and individual. a body kit has nothing to do with how a car runs, just how it looks, and that is exactly what i will be dealing with, how they look, not their health, just their colors.
 
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