Fecal Float

Ryan Jarosek

Ryan Jarosek

New Member
I just did my first ever fecal float on one of my panthers. It went really well. Uh , as good as I could have expected.

I did see Coccidia but I already knew it was there. The good news is it has been reduced from thousands to maybe 150 or so in just 4 days of treatment.

Thanks to Dave Weldon for the supplies, the quick knowledge transfer, Tylene for the slides, and this forum for providing the steps and the pictures I needed to confirm it was Coccidia I was seeing. I also couldn't have made this happen without my Parents , Oh and Gary, Thanks Gary for helping me out on those tests and getting me to Dr. Stein.

Go Panazuril !!!!!!
 
Good job! I wish I had the equipment to do my own floats. Where do you get the Ponazuril (sp?)


Edit:

Also, haha, our dogs get to meet via avatar. :D
 
kenya said:
Good job! I wish I had the equipment to do my own floats. Where do you get the Ponazuril (sp?)


Edit:

Also, haha, our dogs get to meet via avatar. :D
Click to expand...


It had to be prescribed and special ordered by the vet. Not to easy to get from what I undersand.
 
I wish I had the proper equipment to play with poop...that would be sweet.

I still can't believe how much that sucks about the coccidia, real bummer man... I guess that's just the way the "fecal floats" sometimes...:p Good to hear you are making progress on it.
 
Ryan Jarosek said:
I just did my first ever fecal float on one of my panthers. It went really well. Uh , as good as I could have expected.

I did see Coccidia but I already knew it was there. The good news is it has been reduced from thousands to maybe 150 or so in just 4 days of treatment.

Thanks to Dave Weldon for the supplies, the quick knowledge transfer, Tylene for the slides, and this forum for providing the steps and the pictures I needed to confirm it was Coccidia I was seeing. I also couldn't have made this happen without my Parents , Oh and Gary, Thanks Gary for helping me out on those tests and getting me to Dr. Stein.

Go Panazuril !!!!!!
Click to expand...

you forgot to thank the academy ! lol
 
Congrats Ryan.

Please chart the days/drop with the Ponazuril. In a few days I'm going to do a write up. My guy is 100% clean after 11 days and counting plus 4 days from that. His high was only about 150. I wanted to see how it would affect thousands. I believe the the guy you took to Dr. Stein was wall to wall.

For everyone in advance of my write up Ponazuril just might be the wonder drug we all have been hoping for in the eradication of Coccidia. Since its coccidicidal it kills them rather than just reducing them to a level that the animal's immune system then needs to the final eradication.
 
luckykarma said:
Congrats Ryan.

Please chart the days/drop with the Ponazuril. In a few days I'm going to do a write up. My guy is 100% clean after 11 days and counting plus 4 days from that. His high was only about 150. I wanted to see how it would affect thousands. I believe the the guy you took to Dr. Stein was wall to wall.

For everyone in advance of my write up Ponazuril just might be the wonder drug we all have been hoping for in the eradication of Coccidia. Since its coccidicidal it kills them rather than just reducing them to a level that the animal's immune system then needs to the final eradication.
Click to expand...

This is awesome news. I need to get a hold of some of this stuff- I think I may be needing it with the rescue chams I am getting. My herp vet should have it, right? Is it also a pigeon drug?
 
kenya said:
This is awesome news. I need to get a hold of some of this stuff- I think I may be needing it with the rescue chams I am getting. My herp vet should have it, right? Is it also a pigeon drug?
Click to expand...

Appertex is the pigeon drug. I treated my guy with the Appertex and it had no side affects and after a few weeks he in now clear. Thanks again Gary and Dave for all of your help. Jann
 
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Jann is right. Ponazuril is a horse drug. The problem I had with Appertex is if it isn't injected into a feeder my guys had a hard time with it orally and the new 5 month old puked up his entire stomach contents after giving the 5th treatment.

Ponazuril is oral and a small amount. Dr. Stein prescribes 3 days of treatment interupted by 1 week of no treatment followed by 3 days. Again, I'll chart everything in the report I'll write up in a couple days. However, if you can inject Appertex it does work although not as quickly as Ponazuril. Appx 30 days of dosing compared to 6 with Ponazuril. At least in my experience and echoing Dave Weldon who pioneered it in our group after reading about it in UK forums. Appertex is over the counter.
 
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luckykarma said:
Jann is right. Ponazuril is a horse drug. The problem I had with Appertex is if it isn't injected into a feeder my guys had a hard time with it orally and the new 5 month old puked up his entire stomach contents after giving the 5th treatment.

Ponazuril is oral and a small amount. Dr. Stein prescribes 3 days of treatment interupted by 1 week of no treatment followed by days. Again, I chart everything in the report I'll write up in a couple days. However, if you can inject Appertex it does work although not as quickly as Ponazuril. Appx 30 days of dosing compared to 6 with Ponazuril. At least in my experience and echoing Dave Weldon who pioneered it in our group after reading about it in UK forums. Appertex is over the counter.
Click to expand...

Ponazuril sounds way, way better. Oh man, I love this forum! You guys are passionate pioneers and scientists.
 
Howdy All,

Yep. Ponazuril is really looking like the wonder drug for coccidia :). The more vets that we can get onboard with it the better. Appertex's only advantage is that you can get it "over the counter" from the racing pigeon supply houses. You have to grind the pills into powder, mix it in a suspension fluid and then deliver it, preferably injected into a feeder. The number of doses required is still fairly uncharted territory. My ~5yr-old Veiled, with a very stubborn case of coccidia (Albon and TMS not completely effective :(), may have been at the upper end of the dosing duration having taken 30 doses over a 60 day period to completely wipe it out :eek:. We would need a few more examples with other (younger) chameleons to know for sure what a "typical" Appertex regiment is to knockout coccidia.

A few months ago, I was right in the middle of dosing with Appertex when I ran across someone who was using Ponazuril for coccidia in a Bearded Dragon. Then weeks later, to hear Dr. Funk's lecture on its successful use, that was really timely with Luckykarma's coccidia issue being found the next day after that reptile show. I'd be using Ponazuril too but, thank goodness, I don't have any coccidia problems anymore :eek:.

Now that Ponazuril has entered the consciousness of the chameleon world, coccidia will become a simple parasite to deal with just like pinworms and roundworms and not spoken about with hushed tones in back alleys :eek:.
 
I have only found Coccidia in WC chams and have see it show up in chams that have been around bearded dragons. How did these chams get exposed? And thank you for writing about it on the forums I had never heard of this dru Ponazuril.
 
Pams Chams said:
I have only found Coccidia in WC chams and have see it show up in chams that have been around bearded dragons. How did these chams get exposed? And thank you for writing about it on the forums I had never heard of this dru Ponazuril.
Click to expand...

I have heard that coccidia is fairly common in most soil. Maybe that is where? It also can come from feeder insects, right? I would imagine much is from contact with other reptiles, used cage supplies, and cross contamination from handling multiple herps and other animals such as birds.
 
Pams Chams said:
I have only found Coccidia in WC chams and have see it show up in chams that have been around bearded dragons. How did these chams get exposed? And thank you for writing about it on the forums I had never heard of this dru Ponazuril.
Click to expand...


Hi , Pam , Unfortunately I picked up three Chameleons from a very reputable breeder that did not know they were infected. It was quite a shock to the breeder as well. I have a feeling a couple of my guys were cross contaminated via a shared tree and holding one after the other. After talking to the breeder we both agreed that it probably came from some tainted feeders.

prior to this experience I was ignorant to the fact that you could get Coccidia from a new Cham from such a well known breeder. The fact of the matter is it could happen to anyone. Lesson learned. :)
 
Howdy All,

You'd think that commercial feeders would be a good place to lay blame for introducing coccidia into our chameleons’ pristine environments :eek:. After years of using commercial feeders and not infecting any of my past or present chameleons via that pathway, I'm convinced that coccidia does not move through the commercial feeder channel. But coccidia can move through feeders as a means of coccidia transmission to our chameleons. If a chameleon already has coccidia and if the feeder is exposed to that coccidia already present via fecal contamination of the enclosure and that feeder is allowed to be eaten by an uninfected reptile then the infection is allowed to spread. The bottom line is never remove any feeder from one chameleon's enclosure and feed it to another. Never remove a feeder from a reptile enclosure other than to destroy the feeder. Avoid leaving feeders in the presence of any fecal material for any length of time, especially if you suspect that there is a parasite problem. If a feeder has been exposed to coccidia, for example, and then eaten by the same chameleon originally carrying that coccidia then re-infection, even during treatment, may occur. This is why it is so important to keep surfaces clean during treatment for coccidia (and many other parasite types). Re-infection is likely to occur by contamination as soon as the drug treatment stops. Disinfection of the chameleon’s living quarters combined with the correct drugs will eventually break the coccidian life cycle.

Don't breed any chameleon that is infected with any parasite, especially coccidia. Sexually transmitted parasites (STPs) are possible since everything is passing through the cloaca whether it is poop or hemipenes :eek:. My male Veiled picked-up his only case of coccidia while he was out on a "date". No more dates... :(.

Coccidia can be passed through contaminated soil only if that soil has been exposed to reptile fecal material already containing coccidia. It is highly unlikely that any soil not exposed to that coccidia-laced reptile fecal material will carry any coccidia capable of infecting our chameleons. This is unlike pinworms which could easily be in backyard soil contaminated by infected wild or domestic mammal poop. Your mother had good reason to keep your dirty fingers out of your mouth :eek:.
 
I was hoping to get all this info into one post that could be a sticky but this post is really going into detail. Dave would you mind reposting this in the thread I'm going to create?

I've been doing a day to day charting of Ponazuril and compared it to Appertex. I'll include the chart for members and hopefully is its any help to convince pets.

I've been waiting because I wanted a full week of zero count.

Dave Weldon said:
Howdy All,

You'd think that commercial feeders would be a good place to lay blame for introducing coccidia into our chameleons’ pristine environments :eek:. After years of using commercial feeders and not infecting any of my past or present chameleons via that pathway, I'm convinced that coccidia does not move through the commercial feeder channel. But coccidia can move through feeders as a means of coccidia transmission to our chameleons. If a chameleon already has coccidia and if the feeder is exposed to that coccidia already present via fecal contamination of the enclosure and that feeder is allowed to be eaten by an uninfected reptile then the infection is allowed to spread. The bottom line is never remove any feeder from one chameleon's enclosure and feed it to another. Never remove a feeder from a reptile enclosure other than to destroy the feeder. Avoid leaving feeders in the presence of any fecal material for any length of time, especially if you suspect that there is a parasite problem. If a feeder has been exposed to coccidia, for example, and then eaten by the same chameleon originally carrying that coccidia then re-infection, even during treatment, may occur. This is why it is so important to keep surfaces clean during treatment for coccidia (and many other parasite types). Re-infection is likely to occur by contamination as soon as the drug treatment stops. Disinfection of the chameleon’s living quarters combined with the correct drugs will eventually break the coccidian life cycle.

Don't breed any chameleon that is infected with any parasite, especially coccidia. Sexually transmitted parasites (STPs) are possible since everything is passing through the cloaca whether it is poop or hemipenes :eek:. My male Veiled picked-up his only case of coccidia while he was out on a "date". No more dates... :(.

Coccidia can be passed through contaminated soil only if that soil has been exposed to reptile fecal material already containing coccidia. It is highly unlikely that any soil not exposed to that coccidia-laced reptile fecal material will carry any coccidia capable of infecting our chameleons. This is unlike pinworms which could easily be in backyard soil contaminated by infected wild or domestic mammal poop. Your mother had good reason to keep your dirty fingers out of your mouth :eek:.
Click to expand...
 
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