What MBD really is...and how Severe it is..

KShook

Avid Member
Hello Everyone,

As some of you already know..I've aquired a new Female Ambilobe from a friend of mine who did not know how to properly care for chameleon and there well being..anyways I work for a Vet Office and I told him I'll bring her in if he pays for everything...Of course this was "Declined" Now that he does not want her I'm bringing her in on friday "Tomorrow" I've done so much reseach on her symptoms..which is falling off her branches and very weak. But on theup side she still eats and drinks REALLY well. Anyways..What I've come up with is MBD her limbs are not YET swollen...but maybe a slight case of MBD I found some really awesome X-Rays to show what it does to the chameleons..I think eveyone will find this REALLY interesting...Hope this helps those of you who dont know what this does..And if you have any other advise please throw it my way! Okay here's the X-Rays & Article:

The chameleon that came in egg-bound (see article 5th March) was found to be deficient in calcium. This is a fairly common problem in captive chameleons and it can be quite difficult to ensure the correct ratios of calcium, phosphorous, vitamin D and UV light. These factors can all play a role in the amount of calcium a chameleon takes in and then absorbs in a way that it can use effectively. The end result of a deficiency is that bones do not grow correctly (often curved instead of straight) and eggs cannot form the correct shell structure and then cannot be laid.
The xray below shows the very thin cortex (outer part of the bones) and how the bones have curved in this chameleon.

Also...Here's how to PREVENT this: The only way to prevent MBD is to ensure your chameleon gets BOTH Calcium and UVA/UVB lighting "at least 12 hours a day". In order for the intestinal tract to absorb the calcium, it requires activated Vitamin D3 to be present. Vitamin D needs to be exposed to UV radiation "LIGHT" in order to become activated. This is why it's so curial to have full spectrum UV light in your reptiles environment!
 

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You're missing part of the "story"...vitamin A is also involved...as is D3 from supplements. Obesity and power feeding can also play a part as can temperature.
 
Hello Everyone,

As some of you already know..I've aquired a new Female Ambilobe from a friend of mine who did not know how to properly care for chameleon and there well being..anyways I work for a Vet Office and I told him I'll bring her in if he pays for everything...Of course this was "Declined" Now that he does not want her I'm bringing her in on friday "Tomorrow" I've done so much reseach on her symptoms..which is falling off her branches and very weak. But on theup side she still eats and drinks REALLY well. Anyways..What I've come up with is MBD her limbs are not YET swollen...but maybe a slight case of MBD I found some really awesome X-Rays to show what it does to the chameleons..I think eveyone will find this REALLY interesting...Hope this helps those of you who dont know what this does..And if you have any other advise please throw it my way! Okay here's the X-Rays & Article:

The chameleon that came in egg-bound (see article 5th March) was found to be deficient in calcium. This is a fairly common problem in captive chameleons and it can be quite difficult to ensure the correct ratios of calcium, phosphorous, vitamin D and UV light. These factors can all play a role in the amount of calcium a chameleon takes in and then absorbs in a way that it can use effectively. The end result of a deficiency is that bones do not grow correctly (often curved instead of straight) and eggs cannot form the correct shell structure and then cannot be laid.
The xray below shows the very thin cortex (outer part of the bones) and how the bones have curved in this chameleon.

Also...Here's how to PREVENT this: The only way to prevent MBD is to ensure your chameleon gets BOTH Calcium and UVA/UVB lighting "at least 12 hours a day". In order for the intestinal tract to absorb the calcium, it requires activated Vitamin D3 to be present. Vitamin D needs to be exposed to UV radiation "LIGHT" in order to become activated. This is why it's so curial to have full spectrum UV light in your reptiles environment!

i found this very interesting and those x-rays are outstanding
 
You're missing part of the "story"...vitamin A is also involved...as is D3 from supplements. Obesity and power feeding can also play a part as can temperature.

How is vitamin A involved in calcium uptake? I didn't know this, only the vitamin D3 side of the story.
 
Vitamin A

Okay..Vitamin A is needed for you Cham. but as far as MDB go's D3 is need along with UV to absorb Calcium in there bodies...Vitamin A does not have anything to do with Calcium Aborbsion...So if you do not use D3 for chameleons now...you NEED to..or else your cham will get MDB...which you dont want!
 
Does anyone have "normal" x-rays for comparison? I would like to be able to look at them side by side so I would know how to correctly "look" at an x=ray of one of my chams.
 
Laurie: The LEFT x-ray is the MDB one the RIGHT x-ray is of a normal cham

Does anyone have "normal" x-rays for comparison? I would like to be able to look at them side by side so I would know how to correctly "look" at an x=ray of one of my chams.
 
Okay..Vitamin A is needed for you Cham. but as far as MDB go's D3 is need along with UV to absorb Calcium in there bodies...Vitamin A does not have anything to do with Calcium Aborbsion...So if you do not use D3 for chameleons now...you NEED to..or else your chamwill get MDB...which you dont want!

Are you implying that I'm wrong?

-Steve
 
Steve: have you done research on this?! If you find something that states Vitamin A has something to do with "Preventing" the MDB process let me know...But as far as I know it dosent!?

I have read this in many threads. I'll search it.

-Steve
 
No Threads...thats just everyone opinions...find a REAL written article by an author...that says that Vitamin A has something to do with MBD prevention Process...
 
No Threads...thats just everyone opinions...find a REAL written article by an author...that says that Vitamin A has something to do with MBD prevention Process...

Alright. I'll keep searching. I'm sure adcham has an article somewhere...
 
Kshook said..."Vitamin A is needed for you Cham. but as far as MDB go's D3 is need along with UV to absorb Calcium in there bodies...Vitamin A does not have anything to do with Calcium Aborbsion...So if you do not use D3 for chameleons now...you NEED to..or else your cham will get MDB...which you dont want!"...The best way for a chameleon to get D3 id from exposure to UVB either through exposure to sunlight or to a UVB light such as the Repti-sun 5.0 long linear tube light. In nature this is where the D3 mainly comes from. Because I can be sure that the chameleon gets enough from the light in captivity, I supplement twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder just to ensure that the chameleon gets enough without overdoing it.

PrEformed vitamin A is in the form for the body to use right away and it can build up in the body if too much is given. Beta caroten (prOformed) won't because its converted into vitamin A as needed...but there is controvesy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert it. Excess vitamin A can interfere with the D3 in the chameleon's system and push it towards MBD....so it does have to do with calcium absorption in that if it prevents the D3 from working with the calcium so that it can be absorbed the chameleon will lack calcium in its system and likely will end up with MBD.

Here are some articles that might help...
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...rnals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421.../index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=102
 
Consider the source, not whether it is a thread or a published article.
Many people on here have been doing this for years and have published respected articles and papers.
Lynda (Kinyonga) is one of those people.

-Brad
 
Isn't Vit A found in foilage? If a captive cham does not eat foilage, then they "could" be lacking Vit A. Most captive chams do not eat foilage or at least the right kind. Therefore, they are lacking in Vit A and need a small dose administerd by a knowledgable Vet IMO. Personally I think it does have something to do with MBD. (see below)

What is vitamin A?

Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin, and can be stored in fatty tissues in the body. Vitamin A is required for healthy skin, mucous membranes, the retina of the eye, muscles, teeth, and other tissues. It is necessary for proper growth, reproduction, and a properly functioning immune system. Some forms of vitamin A also have antioxidant properties. It is an essential nutrient, meaning it must be included in the diet.

What are the signs of vitamin A abnormalities?

Hypovitaminosis A
• Reduced growth rate•Death
• Metabolic bone disease
• Necrosis/sloughing of the tip of the tail
• Swollen lips
• Swelling around the eyes
• Abnormal vertebrae
• Difficulty with maintaining a grip or posture
• Increased number of upper respiratory infections
• Inability to reproduce or death of eggs
• Loss of appetite
• Skin abnormalities
• Hemipenile impactions in young males

Hypervitaminosis A
• Loss of appetite
• Liver enlargement
• Bone abnormalities
• Calcium deposits in soft tissues
• Skin abnormalities

Why are pet chameleons susceptible to vitamin A deficiency?

Chameleons kept as pets often have a diet that primarily consists of insects. In many cases, insects purchased for feeding have not been fed properly and have poor vitamin A levels. In the wild, chameleons also eat small lizards and birds as part of their diet. These species, because of the vegetable matter in their stomach and intestines, provide much higher levels of vitamin A. In addition, the insects they feed on have generally not been nutritionally deprived, as are some purchased insects.

How are chameleons with vitamin A abnormalities treated?

Hypovitaminosis A is treated by giving oral or injectable vitamin A. The husbandry and nutrition must be corrected to prevent recurrence. Secondary problems such as infections also need to be treated. Animals with severe deficiencies may have permanent problems such as skeletal abnormalities, eye disease, or impaired respiration.

The basic treatment of hypervitaminosis A is to remove the supplemental source of vitamin A. Secondary problems such as liver toxicity or skin abnormalities will also need to be treated.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

References and Further Reading
Abate, AL; Coke, R; Ferguson, G; Reavill, D. Chameleons and vitamin A. Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery, 2003; 13(2):23-31.

Abate, A; Kalisch, K. Chameleon Information Network: Newsletters #10, 11. San Diego, CA.

Donoghue, S; McKeown, S. Nutrition of captive reptiles. Veterinary Clinics of North America: Exotic Animal Practice; Jan. 1999: 69-91.

Lowe, P. The Veiled Chameleon (Chamaeleo calyptratus). A Colorado Herpetological Society Care Sheet, originally published in three installments in The Cold Blooded News, V23: 6-8, June - Aug., 1996.

Mader, D. Reptile Medicine and Surgery. W.B. Saunders Co. 1996.
 
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