Yet another cat attack

L

Laserbeak

New Member
A couple days ago, I stupidly drifted off to sleep with my chameleon Liz.She was in my hair (she loves that and wasn't moving around). This had happened before and she or her boyfriend usually are exactly in the same place when I wake up in an hour or two.

But somehow my cat found her this time.

Luckily, my mother was here and heard something going on and saw the cat with Liz in his mouth. She yelled at him and he let her go. She seemed alright but must have had a small puncture wound since she bled a little. She seems fine now, and there's no visible injury, but I'm concerned about infection. Is there a way to get some antibiotics through the Internet or something suitable for chameleons? I really can't afford to take her to a vet that handles reptiles right now in Manhattan, it would probably be like $1000. Thanks.
 
Antibiotics can often harm more than they heal, so i wouldn't recommend just buying one online and experimenting with it.

You should at least try calling a vet. They should be able to give an estimate over the phone.
 
Laserbeak said:
Are you from New York City?
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I lived there for some years and we have members who are there now. One can probably recommend a vet or check the vet sticky thread for suggestions. A vet visit isn't going to cost $1000 dollars.
 
I did call around and the only vet that would see a chameleon wanted $100 to walk in the door, and run a bunch of tests that would cost who knows how much, and sell me medication that would also be way overpriced.

I took her out and examined her more thoroughly and found the puncture wound.. There was a tiny mound of congealed blood on her neck, which is probably good since that means the pressure wasn't on the internal organs.

I put some bacitracin zinc on it (which I confirmed was safe for reptiles), and it's just an external petroleum jelly based cream, so it should do no harm. If she looks like she's getting sick, I'll take her to the vet, but at this point, I don't think it's worth it. I am emotionally attached to her, but, in the end, she cost $35. I don't want to end up spending a ton of money on her if it's not necessary.

That happened to me with a stray cat I had for just about a year or so. I spent well over $2000 at a vet and the cat died anyway from kidney failure and I REALLY loved him, cried for like a week when he died.
 
KapitalJ said:
I am sorry, but this is piss poor care / neglect, and a piss poor attitude.
I wasn't trying to be rude in my post, but what did you think would happen?
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In a way, I agree with you, but you seem to be ignoring the other facts:

The animal seems to be doing fine, she's eating, crawling all over her cage, and shows no signs of injury (except that little scab) or illness. She and my other chameleon were around my cats before and they never showed any interest in attacking them before. Plus I said if she does show signs of illness in the future, I will take her to the vet, it just doesn't seem necessary at the moment.

In the future I will be far more careful about taking them out of their cage.
 
Laserbeak said:
In a way, I agree with you, but you seem to be ignoring the other facts:

The animal seems to be doing fine, she's eating, crawling all over her cage, and shows no signs of injury (except that little scab) or illness. She and my other chameleon were around my cats before and they never showed any interest in attacking them before. Plus I said if she does show signs of illness in the future, I will take her to the vet, it just doesn't seem necessary at the moment.

In the future I will be far more careful about taking them out of their cage.
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I don't think you understand how serious a cat bite or scratch is. They have a lot of really nasty bacteria in their saliva. No big deal unless they puncture or break the skin. Then it usually is a big deal. A puncture is far more likely to become infected than a scratch which is open to the air.

I have parrots. The standard protocol for pet birds with any broken skin caused by a cat is to begin them on a prophylactic course of antibiotics. Reptiles have a lot in common with birds, which are basically the last dinosaurs.

If it were my chameleon that I was remotely attached to I would take it to the vet and get oral antibiotics BEFORE any sign of illness because if it is ill, it is too late. That is standard care for parrots.

By the way, I have cats and have always had cats. My eldest son almost died from "Cat Scratch Fever" when he was 6 years old. There never was a mark on him but his titre levels for one or two of the bacteria cats often carry increased over time after he almost died.

You do not need any type of tests. You probably need antibiotics prescribed to prevent disease. It takes a few days before infection builds up and shows outwardly. By that time, it is too late.

I honestly don't know why I waste my time on people like you who justify spending or not spending on an animal they purportedly "love" based on the original price tag, especially when you almost killed this animal because of your own negligence.
 
Laserbeak said:
In a way, I agree with you, but you seem to be ignoring the other facts:

The animal seems to be doing fine, she's eating, crawling all over her cage, and shows no signs of injury (except that little scab) or illness. She and my other chameleon were around my cats before and they never showed any interest in attacking them before. Plus I said if she does show signs of illness in the future, I will take her to the vet, it just doesn't seem necessary at the moment.

In the future I will be far more careful about taking them out of their cage.
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By the time she shows any illness it'll probably will be more expensive and heartbreaking for you. My suggestion is get her checked out.

Oh and another thing don't matter if you've raised cats all your life, a cat is an animal with certain hard wired instincts. Your chameleons just trigger thier natural instincts, especially if your asleep, that's like turning a blind eye.

I understand that you love animals of all shape and sizes, but we all must make sure we get a handle on our husbandry so incidents like this don't happen agian.

I'm not trying to bash you, just trying to inform.
 
Deff should not be falling asleep with a Chameleon out and about. Just because you have before, doesn't mean it is safe OR smart. Because it is neither. Just because a cat has never shown interest in attacking before, doesn't mean it won't happen. You see this all the time with zoo animals.... it's happened with Orcas at Sea World.... it's happened lots of places. You see animals that are friendly and docile for years and years and years. And suddenly, one day, they snap. They attack - bite, claw, scratch..... it's the friendly show Orca who drags its trainer underwater. It's the lion keeper who feeds and cleans areas and suddenly is bit one day. It even happens with cats and dogs. My uncle once had a dog years and years ago. A German Shepard. I was about 10 or 11 at the time, and had been to visit my uncle countless times. Seen that dog countless times. Played with it, fed it, pet it. Countless times. It knew 100% for a fact, without a doubt, who I was. He'd had the dog for about 5 years..... One day I went over to the house to see my uncle, and the dog kinda growled at me. I did nothing to provoke it, made no sudden movements, nothing. I simply walked through the front kitchen door and was making my way to the living room as I always did, when it growled at me. I looked at it a second, because I remember thinking like "I've never seen you growl before, ever"...

Then it attacked me. It just shot up off the floor and jumped towards me, connecting its jaw with my right side, just below my ribcage. It took a bite on my side and had no intentions of letting go. My uncle sprang from the living room and started punching the dog, as it freaked him out to. It had never been mean, to anyone, EVER. This was a first, and I did absolutely nothing to provoke it in any way.

The stuff happens yo. Just because it never has, or hasn't yet, DOESN'T MEAN that it won't. You have to take precautions, which include NOT FALLING ASLEEP with your chameleon on your head. Maybe the cat was just trying to play with it and not harm it, as you mentioned it was carrying the chameleon in its mouth. In a cat's mouth, the cham would SURELY have more than a small wound if the cat was indeed intentionally trying to harm the chameleon. Heck, it could of ate your reptile right where it caught it, but didn't. THIS TIME......

You gotta be more careful. Don't be careless. Even if you didn't have cats, lots of bad things can still happen. What if it gets lost or something when you are asleep and you can't find it, maybe for a long time? Check out this pretty recent thread dealing with that topic: https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/help-lost-my-veiled.147322/ ---- A girl and her boyfriend were letting their chameleon hangout on a window sill like they always do, and ten minutes later, it was gone. They didn't even fall asleep. They couldn't find it and tore the whole house apart, many times, and somehow by the grace of God, it survived still..... and they found it 2 months later roaming the house. Don't let that be you. SOOOO many stories on these forums about lost chameleons, it blows my mind that some people don't pay better attention to them with so many good examples of why you should never leave them alone or take your eye off them when they are out and about. Even if the chameleon doesn't get lost, there are other bad things that can happen. What if a poisonous insect somehow gets into your house, and your chameleon wants to eat it and you weren't awake monitoring it to see it? Now the cham is poisoned and you have no idea why. Or say you fall asleep and the chameleon crawls onto your chest or crawls down to your side or something. Now, suddenly, your shift your body in your sleep like everyone does, and your body shifts and you end up laying on top of your chameleon and crush it.

Just REALLY REALLY not a good idea to be falling asleep with a chameleon out and about, let alone, chilling in your hair.


Laserbeak said:
If she looks like she's getting sick, I'll take her to the vet, but at this point, I don't think it's worth it. I am emotionally attached to her, but, in the end, she cost $35. I don't want to end up spending a ton of money on her if it's not necessary.
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May have only cost $35, but an animal is still an animal. If you can't be responsible and take care of it properly, then you probably shouldn't own one. I hate when I see people who buy cheap chameleons, and neglect vet visits and such because it "would cost more money", trying to be cheap. Chameleons aren't cheap, and the quicker you can wrap your head around that, the better. It might be cheaper to let it die than it would be to take it to the vet... sure. But lets put this in a different perspective: Lets say your mother is sick.... really sick..... the cost to have doctors treat her and completely cure her is estimated to be in the thousands. Like, lots of thousands. Lets pretend it costs $60,000 to cure your mother of whatever it is she may have. Who knows. A funeral only costs $10 grand or so, maybe not even that if you go with a cheaper casket. Are you going to let your mother die, because in the end it's "cheaper" ??? Probably not, or at least I sure hope not! You can use the argument that "Well she is my mother, and I won't let her die...." Well, when you commit to owning a chameleon, it becomes a part of your family too whether you see it that way or not. So treat it as such, and don't ever neglect it.

KapitalJ said:
You have fallen asleep with it out before.
No money for a vet. (or don't want to spend it)
oh well, it only cost $35$

I am sorry, but this is piss poor care / neglect, and a piss poor attitude.
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^^^^ THIS. (y)



I'm not trying to be mean, so I do apologize if it seems that way. I just see so many stories like this where people are completely careless, then they wonder why bad things happen. You have to do YOUR PART as an owner to provide the best life you can for your critters. Best life that you can, means not sleeping while a chameleon is chilling on your head with cats loose in the house. That right there just looks like a reptile version of the show Tom and Jerry, with your chameleon being Jerry. Not good.
 
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Virgil1972 said:
Sounds like it hurt.
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Hurt like crazy. Took a big chunk out of my side probably 3-4 inches wide. This was a fully grown, nice and healthy, heavily-built German Shepard. After that, I wouldn't go near another dog for probably 5-8 years. I wouldn't look at dogs, I wouldn't pet dogs. I actually AVOIDED dogs, walking on the opposite side of the road when I saw them, or avoiding people completely who were out walking their dogs. I was literally terrified of them. It wasn't the fact that I got bit that scared me so bad, it was the fact that I had been bitten by a dog that I had grown to really like. I played with that dog all the time and had so many good times with it when I went to my uncle's house. But then it just turned on me one day and I did absolutely nothing to make it do so. Maybe it was the shirt I was wearing that day... or maybe it was the new frames on my glasses I just got (I had glasses before, but I had recently gotten new frames for them like 2 weeks prior, and had even been to my uncle's house once before with the new frames without incident).... We tried and tried to figure out what spooked the dog, but we could never figure it out. I literally didn't even speak a word or nothing to it. Didn't make a movement or nothing towards it. I remember that day like it was yesterday.... I just opened the sliding door on the kitchen, stepped in, closed the door, took about 5 steps through the kitchen....then it growled at me. That stopped me dead in my tracks and I kinda stared at it for 5 seconds. The VERY NEXT STEP I took is when it shot up off the floor where it was laying and bit me. Scared the absolute &*$% out of me.

I'm not scared of dogs anymore - actually own one. But for years, I wouldn't dare go near one like AT ALL. I avoided them like the plague. The whole point is... things happen that are unpredictable. So you gotta make sure that you limit those things that can happen to the best of your ability, which includes not falling asleep with a chameleon. (y)
 
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trickedoutbiker said:
Hurt like crazy. Took a big chunk out of my side probably 3-4 inches wide. This was a fully grown, nice and healthy, heavily-built German Shepard. After that, I wouldn't go near another dog for probably 5-8 years. I wouldn't look at dogs, I wouldn't pet dogs. I actually AVOIDED dogs, walking on the opposite side of the road when I saw them, or avoiding people completely who were out walking their dogs. I was literally terrified of them. It wasn't the fact that I got bit that scared me so bad, it was the fact that I had been bitten by a dog that I had grown to really like. I played with that dog all the time and had so many good times with it when I went to my uncle's house. But then it just turned on me one day and I did absolutely nothing to make it do so. Maybe it was the shirt I was wearing that day... or maybe it was the new frames on my glasses I just got (I had glasses before, but I had recently gotten new frames for them like 2 weeks prior, and had even been to my uncle's house once before with the new frames without incident).... We tried and tried to figure out what spooked the dog, but we could never figure it out. I literally didn't even speak a word or nothing to it. Didn't make a movement or nothing towards it. I remember that day like it was yesterday.... I just opened the sliding door on the kitchen, stepped in, closed the door, took about 5 steps through the kitchen....then it growled at me. That stopped me dead in my tracks and I kinda stared at it for 5 seconds. The VERY NEXT STEP I took is when it shot up off the floor where it was laying and bit me. Scared the absolute &*$% out of me.

I'm not scared of dogs anymore - actually own one. But for years, I wouldn't dare go near one like AT ALL. I avoided them like the plague. The whole point is... things happen that are unpredictable. So you gotta make sure that you limit those things that can happen to the best of your ability, which includes not falling asleep with a chameleon. (y)
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If my dog did that to one of my kids I would have blown its head off.
 
Virgil1972 said:
If my dog did that to one of my kids I would have blown its head off.
Click to expand...

Ironically, it did get shot, but not by my uncle. And not in the head.

You see, my Uncle Alan hit it pretty good. He punched it in the head a few times to make it let go of me. After that, it was an outside-only dog and he let it roam around the fenced in yard, never letting it in the house anymore (all 5 of his dogs were inside most of the time, and outside just to play and do their business in the fenced in yard). He thought about putting it down, but they'd had it since it was a puppy and just didn't wanna have to do that to one of their pets. So they kept it roaming the yard and chained it up when I'd come over, or anyone else that was new or had kids.

A lil over a month or so after the incident, the dog got loose from the fenced in yard because it had been digging a hole under the fence. Typical. Well, it got out, and roamed off. My uncle lives at Wilson Lake, IN and it is surrounded by lots of woods, and lots of fields. Lots of woods and fields, means lots of wildlife. Fate would have it that the biting incident happened about a month or so before deer season. They say what comes around goes around..... The dog ended up getting shot at the edge of a woods/field nearby. The hunter SAID he thought he saw a deer and was pretty sure he was shooting at a deer when he hit the dog. He heard rustling in some bushes and had just seen a few Doe walk through the area. He said nobody ever walks through the woods in all his time living there, and any hunter would (or should) have been wearing orange. He figured he was shooting a large animal. I'm not 100% of the details, but I can tell you this: I've taken Hunter's Ed and even hunted myself a few times - I don't see how you could shoot at something and not be 100% sure what it is first. It's a private lake and kind of in the boonies and not many houses around there, but still. I never met the guy, I just know what my the guy told my Uncle, who told my dad, whom told me. Anyways, the hunter said it was an accident. In reality, we all believed that the dog was wandering around in this guy's personal hunting spot, scaring the deer away, so he shot it on purpose. No matter HOW it went down... the dog ended up shot. Now you can call it karma or you can call it coincidence...but at least I didn't have to see my family have to do that to their own pet. That would break my heart. My Uncle Alan wasn't too happy as it was one of his best buddies for many years, but I'd be a liar if I told you that somewhere deep down in me at the time, I felt relieved after what had happened.
 
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trickedoutbiker said:
Ironically, it did get shot, but not by my uncle. And not in the head.

You see, my Uncle Alan hit it pretty good. He punched it in the head a few times to make it let go of me. After that, it was an outside-only dog and he let it roam around the fenced in yard, never letting it in the house anymore (all 5 of his dogs were inside most of the time, and outside just to play and do their business in the fenced in yard). He thought about putting it down, but they'd had it since it was a puppy and just didn't wanna have to do that to one of their pets. So they kept it roaming the yard and chained it up when I'd come over, or anyone else that was new or had kids.

A lil over a month or so after the incident, the dog got loose from the fenced in yard because it had been digging a hole under the fence. Typical. Well, it got out, and roamed off. My uncle lives at Wilson Lake, IN and it is surrounded by lots of woods, and lots of fields. Lots of woods and fields, means lots of wildlife. Fate would have it that the biting incident happened about a month or so before deer season. They say what comes around goes around..... The dog ended up getting shot at the edge of a woods/field nearby. The hunter SAID he thought he saw a deer and was pretty sure he was shooting at a deer when he hit the dog. He heard rustling in some bushes and had just seen a few Doe walk through the area. He said nobody ever walks through the woods in all his time living there, and any hunter would (or should) have been wearing orange. He figured he was shooting a large animal. I'm not 100% of the details, but I can tell you this: I've taken Hunter's Ed and even hunted myself a few times - I don't see how you could shoot at something and not be 100% sure what it is first. It's a private lake and kind of in the boonies and not many houses around there, but still. I never met the guy, I just know what my the guy told my Uncle, who told my dad, whom told me. Anyways, the hunter said it was an accident. In reality, we all believed that the dog was wandering around in this guy's personal hunting spot, scaring the deer away, so he shot it on purpose. No matter HOW it went down... the dog ended up shot. Now you can call it karma or you can call it coincidence...but at least I didn't have to see my family have to do that to their own pet. That would break my heart. My Uncle Alan wasn't too happy as it was one of his best buddies for many years, but I'd be a liar if I told you that somewhere deep down in me at the time, I felt relieved after what had happened.
Click to expand...
Your uncle is more forgiving than me
 
trickedoutbiker said:
Hurt like crazy. Took a big chunk out of my side probably 3-4 inches wide. This was a fully grown, nice and healthy, heavily-built German Shepard. After that, I wouldn't go near another dog for probably 5-8 years. I wouldn't look at dogs, I wouldn't pet dogs. I actually AVOIDED dogs, walking on the opposite side of the road when I saw them, or avoiding people completely who were out walking their dogs. I was literally terrified of them. It wasn't the fact that I got bit that scared me so bad, it was the fact that I had been bitten by a dog that I had grown to really like. I played with that dog all the time and had so many good times with it when I went to my uncle's house. But then it just turned on me one day and I did absolutely nothing to make it do so. Maybe it was the shirt I was wearing that day... or maybe it was the new frames on my glasses I just got (I had glasses before, but I had recently gotten new frames for them like 2 weeks prior, and had even been to my uncle's house once before with the new frames without incident).... We tried and tried to figure out what spooked the dog, but we could never figure it out. I literally didn't even speak a word or nothing to it. Didn't make a movement or nothing towards it. I remember that day like it was yesterday.... I just opened the sliding door on the kitchen, stepped in, closed the door, took about 5 steps through the kitchen....then it growled at me. That stopped me dead in my tracks and I kinda stared at it for 5 seconds. The VERY NEXT STEP I took is when it shot up off the floor where it was laying and bit me. Scared the absolute &*$% out of me.

I'm not scared of dogs anymore - actually own one. But for years, I wouldn't dare go near one like AT ALL. I avoided them like the plague. The whole point is... things happen that are unpredictable. So you gotta make sure that you limit those things that can happen to the best of your ability, which includes not falling asleep with a chameleon. (y)
Click to expand...

I've worked with a lot of dogs. I bred dogs, showed dogs (conformation, obedience and tracking of all things) and even judged a few conformation dog shows.

I've seen unprovoked attacks a couple of times. One was a Sheltie that just turned on her owner. The dog was put down and I can't remember if they even did a necropsy or diagnostics on it. I believe it had some kind of a brain lesion/tumor.

The other dog that I thought attacked for no reason (although the owner thinks otherwise!) was a Springer Spaniel in one of my advanced obedience classes. I was showing the owner how to get the dog used to holding a dumbbell in her mouth. It's pretty gentle--the dog takes it in her mouth and I was just stroking her face and muzzle telling her she was a good girl but making it a little difficult to spit out if she wanted to which she did not. (This was back in the 80s, long before positive-only training.) She wasn't upset. There was no pressure on her. She looked me in the face and then jumped at my face biting right through my hand. It took a bit to get her to let go--fortunately I had her leash. It was right out of the blue. I found out later there are brain issues with Springer Spaniels called Springer Rage. Who knows whether she had a brain tumor/disease or not. All I know is she bit right through my hand for no provocation and the owner thought it was my fault.

Those are the only two incidents I know of personally in all my years dealing with show dogs that attacked for no provocation.

I wonder if your uncle's dog just didn't recognize you. It happens. German Shepherds don't live very long. Maybe he had some issues with his vision.

I have a pitbull that is the sweetest thing in the world. Not a mean bone in his body--@jpowell86 can back me up on that. He loves EVERYONE. He's the only dog I've ever known who drags me into the vet's office because there might be new friends in there. I found him all broken up on the road trying to die as a 3-month old puppy, so he's had a long and very painful history at vet offices. I thought he was the most useless guard dog in the world but at least he looked pretty scary. Not so. When I moved to my house, the movers came early and he was still outside. My property is fenced and gated, so he could go right up to the front gate. He just stood there glaring at the moving men, walked forward up to just in front of the gate and sat down in the middle of the drive all the while staring them down. I had a guard dog after all. As soon as I walked out, called him and he knew it was okay, he broke his stare, ran over to the gate and was happy happy happy to meet new friends. Although he is the friendliest dog in the world, I would not want anyone to try to come onto my property uninvited, even if he has met you before.

I hope that helps fill in the puzzle of your uncle's German Shepherd Dog a bit for you.
 
If someone wants to have prey and predator pets in the same house it is their responsibility to understand that the animal world is not that fictional "peaceable kingdom" where lions lay down with lambs. When your pets are loose they need to be watched. If you can't watch them make sure they are safe until you can.

I lost a beloved aviary bird to my own dog about 20 years ago and to this day the horror and guilt I feel over it is just as raw as the day it happened. I'd owned the dog for years, owned the bird for years, and the dog hadn't paid much if any attention to him. The bird lived in an 8'x8'x7' wire mesh aviary. The aviary door was at least 4' up off the floor. The bird was much too small to force the door open. The only way that bird could get loose was if the door had been left unlatched and it drifted open. Once in a while WHILE I WAS IN THE ROOM the bird got to fly free to several favorite perching spots in the house but again he didn't go down to the floor and my dog basically ignored him. If he had been a ground foraging type of bird I would have put my dog outdoors when he was out. One day I came home from work to a quiet house...no bird singing. I walked into the living room to find green feathers scattered all over the carpet, the aviary door open, and no bird. Horrified, I tore the house apart and searched over and over again all night hoping the bird had somehow hidden under furniture and was still alive. I had nightmares for days afterward, waking up from frantic searches through imaginary closets, kitchens, and strange rooms. To this day I still don't know why the aviary door opened, why my bird decided to blunder close enough to my dog's face to get grabbed, but it happened.

The undeniable fact is that dogs, just like your cat, are instinctive predators, and when the bird land in front of my dog's nose, instinct kicked in and he was eaten. I have treated quite a few wild birds who were brought to me by a cat's owners and know how serious even a minor cat bite can be. Even if the bird isn't killed outright they end up dying days or weeks later from infections unless they are watched and treated with antibiotics early on. People have brought me dying songbirds found with abscessed cat bites and I have friends and neighbors whose kids end up on antibiotics after their own cat bites them.

Well, I hope the cham is OK, I really do, but be prepared for trouble. Remember, chams hide their problems until they are too sick and weak to keep up the show. Complications from tiny puncture wounds, cracked ribs or a lacerated lung or internal organ could be waiting to show up.

Whenever I hear someone complain that an inexpensive pet would cost too much to take to a vet (assuming what it would cost to get treatment without really knowing either way) it makes me boil. YOU are not a vet and YOU do not have access to the xrays, the meds, the examination expertise to detect complications. The vet does. When you buy an animal you buy the responsibility for its care and wellbeing. If you can't see the value in a pet beyond the purchase price don't buy it in the first place. A $10 garter snake deserves the same care and respect a $1000 "designer morph" boa constrictor does. The cham doesn't know how cheap it was...all it knows is the fear and misery it feels when it gets sick and needs attention.
 
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