Worried about my Grabby!

Brad Ramsey said:
If the vet is any good He or She will recommend euthanizing this animal.
This thread has become almost as torturous for me to read as I am imagining it is for this little chameleon to hang onto life.
Again, I am not blaming lyanlynn.
I blame the seller's lack of good advice, not to mention the audacity to sell an animal in this condition.
I am sorry, but in my opinion you have a choice:
Be merciful, or let it stretch out for another week or so. Either way this animal is not long for this world.

-Brad
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I completely agree with Brad. This about summarizes my feelings and is from an earlier post of mine regarding euthanasia:

"I am a pretty reasonable person and the animal's welfare is first and foremost in my mind. If an owner can't care for a failing animal properly or the animal is too far gone, euthanasia is one of the kindest options. We have a death phobic society that would rather see an animal drag out a horrible year long end to a life and end up starving/septic/failing organs etc than a dignified, peaceful death without the drawn out agony."

I think that it is selfish to keep an obviously failing animal alive when you are not willing to go to the extreme to care for it properly. At this point, it seems that it can only get worse.
 
lyanlynn said:
Dude, I can't believe you posted this. You are totally entitled to your opinion but geez.
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I think that if you got things together, did your research properly, and had a proper set up BEFOREHAND, you would do well getting a healthy cham from a reputable breeder. It should be said that these are not easy animals and your average pet owner would not find them rewarding because of the lack of interaction you as a keeper get. They are not toys and should be handled at a minimum. Maybe a crested gecko is a better alternative for you. Chams are a ton of work- it is like having several other pets if you care for the feeder insects properly as well.
 
Wow. I'm glad you all aren't blaming me, but I asked for what she needed when I bought her. I assumed the pet store would know how to care for what they sell, my bad for thinking so. I did change everything I could for her. I built her a home and everything. I don't think she's on her death bed. She's hydrated well now, and keeps drinking when I spray her. She shows me she's thirsty too. Someone mentioned several times that you can't personify animals. I do. All of my animals, all 13, have different personalities. This goes for my turtles to my beardie to Grabby. I cannot afford a trip to a vet. I feel that there is more that I can do, especially since I can't afford that visit. I have done research on chameleons and I think there was something wrong when I purchased her, but I didn't know it. I try to do the best I can for all my babies whether they have fur or not. I know you all have a ton of experience with chams and that's why I decided to join and ask questions. There isn't a whole lot out there or maybe I'm just not using the right keywords to search. Anyway, the point of this reply was say that I'm not giving up on my baby even if most of you think she's a lost cause. I think she's just bored of the food...hence me buying other food...and needed more hydration, which I've worked on as well. I didn't know I could get the Vick's humidifier...Imma get it and hook her up on the humidity. I am not afraid to admit that I have a lot to learn, but none of my babies are a lost cause, and that's just my belief.
 
i don't think you understand the severity of parasites and the complexity of chams.

chameleons are the type of animal that look like they are doing strong one day, and the next day, you find them hanging dead from the screen in the enclosure. parasites take a very very heavy toll on animals, depending on the severity of an infection will determine the amount of time the animal has left, if left untreated. even teh treatment can be harsh on the animal and even make it harder to recover, but they DO so much better once they are clean of parasites or any other illness they are suffering from.


Chameleons, are unlike any other pet i have ever owned, their personality may be unique compared to your other pets, but they have EXTREMLY different demands of your run of the mill reptiles, and house held pets.


Petstores are in this for money, they will import wild caught, or purchase baby reptiles from farms in bulk, even if the animal dies, they don't take much of a loss, cause they probably paid $15.00 per chameleon that they resale for 75+. in reality the petstore takes advantage of your lack of knowledge, regaurdless even if they don't know. they treat all reptiles like the others.


these forums, members have nothing but the best intrestin for you and your animal, never do we intend to personalize/or attack a member. But sometimes harshness is the only way to get a point across.


we see numerous threads to these daily, and some heed the advice some don't sometimes the results are good and many times when we read threads similar to yours, the outlook never usually ends well.

i will admit i have had terrilble luck with montanes, ive tried quiet a bit.

from my experiences.

NEVER buy from a petstore.
depending on your petstore, they may inform you properly in some aspects, or in all aspects, but a majority of the time the animals they get will be in moderate to poor conditions, and usually are WC. the petstore is in this business for money obvious enough.

and NEVER buy Wild caught.

wild caught will be littered with parasites/illness and can get your other animals sick, not to mention Wild caught animals typically have a hard time adjusting to captivity.
 
You said (regarding her raising her head and gaping)..."She does that occasionally, but I make sure I mist her if she's doing that. I take it that she's thirsty. She'll drink after that too."..This is not an indication that she is thirsty. It can be an indication that she has taken water into her lungs, that she has a respiratory infection (if accompanied by wheezing) or that she is having trouble getting enough air.
 
Okay, with all that said what else can I do for her at home? I have no clue if Petsmart bought her from a bulk farm or she was wild caught or not. All I know is there has to be something else I can do for her at home. She doesn't weeze. She doesn't gape all the time. She has thick saliva and I noticed she did a sighing thing in her sleep, or like a deep breath. Again, she isn't weezing. I've treated my turtles and my bearded dragon and pulled them through without the help of a vet. Chameleons are different, yes, I must agree, but she's responded to everything that you all have mentioned for me to do. What could I give her to help with parasites or an infection? Could it be purchased at a Petsmart or typical pet store? I have an Exoterra Elecrodize supplement that is to help with dehydration. I've given her a little yesterday and today.
 
Is she looking better? are her eyes still sunken in a lot?

If all you have offered are meal worms... i understand why she isn't eating. You could get crickets from petco or petsmart.... They also sell wax worms and supers. I would try getting some wax worms into her.

please go to one of the stores listed above and buy a ficus. They are in season year round.... I hear about people buying them all the time.
 
lyanlynn said:
Okay, with all that said what else can I do for her at home? I have no clue if Petsmart bought her from a bulk farm or she was wild caught or not. All I know is there has to be something else I can do for her at home. She doesn't weeze. She doesn't gape all the time. She has thick saliva and I noticed she did a sighing thing in her sleep, or like a deep breath. Again, she isn't weezing. I've treated my turtles and my bearded dragon and pulled them through without the help of a vet. Chameleons are different, yes, I must agree, but she's responded to everything that you all have mentioned for me to do. What could I give her to help with parasites or an infection? Could it be purchased at a Petsmart or typical pet store? I have an Exoterra Elecrodize supplement that is to help with dehydration. I've given her a little yesterday and today.
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Hi Lyanlynn,
I followed this thread and I thought a lot of people here gave you excellent advises in proper caring for your cham.
So far, apart from dehydration, possible parasitical infestation, I suspect another complication which is Respiratory infection.
Those are serious problems that can only be corrected via prescription medicines by veterinarian.
One member here advises you Dr. Matthew Wheelock as possible go to guy since he's probably closer to your area.
I believe he is a very excellent vet who knows a lot about chameleon.

please take this advise not as an insult of any kind, but as a genuine heartfelt intention for your animal sake.
I think you have ran out of option in trying to rectify this situation without a professional help.
If you truly care about her (and I think you do -or else, you wouldn't bother doing all this stuff), you would bite the bullet and take her to vet.
You can worry about whether or not the vet recommend you the euthanasia later.

Or, the very least thing you can do is to give her away to some reptile rescue organization around your area or some one who knows exactly what's going on with her and able to provide her better care.

Hope that helps..
 
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Again, and I tire of saying this, but WHY do people buy animals that they cannot afford to care for? I understand the appeal, but this is just torture. Vet bills are not cheap.

This is something that may be fixed with an antibiotic and possible parasite treatment. There is NOTHING you can do unless you can run your own fecal and prescribe an antibiotic.

Can you at least call a Vet to see if they will work with you?

My last Vet visit for a pulled out and infected toenail in a Veiled cost $35 for the visit (I have an established and good relationship with my cham experienced Vet), and $50.00 for the 10 days worth of Baytril shots.
 
summoner12 said:
Is she looking better? are her eyes still sunken in a lot?

If all you have offered are meal worms... i understand why she isn't eating. You could get crickets from petco or petsmart.... They also sell wax worms and supers. I would try getting some wax worms into her.

please go to one of the stores listed above and buy a ficus. They are in season year round.... I hear about people buying them all the time.
Click to expand...

Her eyes are looking a whole lot better. They are dark, but no where near as sunken in as they were. So, Petco or Petsmart sell live ficus plants? I never noticed that. I used to spend a lot of time in Petsmart.
 
lyanlynn said:
We only have Lowes and Walmart. Lumberton is a small town. I have to go to Fayetteville for the Petsmart and the Home Depot. Thanks for the links.
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lowes and wal mart should have ficus benjamina, ficus alii, schefflera arboricola, and scindaptus or golden pothos.
Lyanlynn, do you know how to prep your plants be4 introducing them to your chameleon?

Just in case:
A. Removing Pesticides Trace:

1. On a large tub, make a soapy solution by mixing a squirt of antibacterial soap with water. Mix them well.
2. Turn your plant upside down and dunk it into the soapy water and swish it around.
3. Let your plant sit for 5 minutes.
4. Rinse your plant well to remove all traces of soaps
5. Do step 1-4 about 3 or more times


B. Removing Fertilizer Trace:
Many of the potting soils that originally used by the nursery will have additives and fertilizer balls. Therefore, you need to repot the plant with organic potting soil that does not have chemical fertilizer or additives.
Some people use “Organic” Potting soil. I used “Supersoil” potting soil (without conditioners).
Because I want to make sure that there is no way for my chameleon to accidentally ingest the fertilizers, I completely repot the plant with the new soil.
 
did you move the cage off the ground yet?

Chameleons are expensive.

As it's my first Chameleon, a Panther ( not the same as yours) I've boughten alot of wasted feeders:
about $60? (I didn't really want to keep track)
Hornworms: were loved but outgrew my Cham so half went to waste there.
Silkies: weren't liked but some were coaxed into being eaten. I killed about half myself when they ate all their food and I had to order more and I didn't know how to take care of them outside of the convenient cup they came in.
supers: were way too big
wax worms weren't liked - which seems weird but whatever i guess they dont move enough
Butterworms: winner there, gotta order some more
crickets - favorite of my cham and here in cali I can get em by the thousand for cheap, there are other venders in your area you can order from , but if its sooo cold like you say they will probably wait til it worms up to ship. I've gone through 2thousand already in the last couple months. First odrer the crickets were so small they escaped form my lee's cricket keepers and got all over the house and my parents were ready to shoot me...
house flys: are liked as a treat, but when I put them in the freezer to put them to sleep so I could take a few out to give my cham, I left them in when I went to work and killed the 90% I hadn't fed him yet.
phoenix worms: are tiny and expensive and too small for my guy and it seems they aren't as great for chams as they sounded.
Just got dubias yesterday to start a colony woot! but no nymphs to feed off yet. I'm ordering a heating pad and themostat as we speak for them....


if it makes you feel any better over the last 2 months:

I've spent ALOT - right now i'm ordering another $200 in crap from LLLreptile.com
lets see if I can remember most everything I've spent money on besides the food ....

Cricket keepers. x 2
Juvenile Cage,
lights : spot light housing, 3 different bulbs to get the right temps, 2nd spot light housing with ceramic heater cause my parents won't heat the frickin house at night,
the 24" uvb bulb, fixture, a newer fixture that supports 2 t12 florescents so i could add a plant light ( that I would replace with a regular florescent color if I wasn't working on upgrading to a new stand, cage, and 48" fixture anyways
dripper (which I'm going to upgrade to a mist system in his adult setup)
spray bottle
2 plant vines; grape vine and a fake vine
hibiscus, pothos, draceana, and ficus plants. 4 terracotta pots and platters. and soil.
thermometer. ordered a pair of digital thermometers.
humidity gauge.
digital timer power strip
heating pad for the dubias tank. not that I've bought the tank yet...
2 thermostats for heating, 1 for the ceramic in my cham's cage and 1 for the dubia's

so if you are too broke to go to the vet, have fun with that.... cause vets are generally not that expensive.
 
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hell, sometimes you can find a ficus tree/ small plant in the flower section at your local grocery store. i know for a fact that they 90% of the fry's food and drug sell ficus/pothos and even schefflera.

* i invested in my panther chameleon about $500.00 before i even bought him, and other 400 including the cost of him and additional needs.
 
Wow...look at these crickets.:eek:
 

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