Worried about bearded dragon

[hinoco1225]

Your Reptile - Bearded dragon, 14 weeks old, 4 inches snout to vent (9.5 with tail), unsure of sex (should I be able to tell yet?), in my care almost 2 months
Handling - Often
Feeding - Crickets, occasional waxworms, veggies. Crickets gutloaded with fresh veggies and Fluker's dry gutload (occasional fruits as well).
Supplements - Calcium with D3 almost every day, occasionally use calcium w/o D3. Multivitamin once a month, alternating between Reptivite and Miner-all.
Watering - Fresh water every day in a dish
Fecal Description - Picture below (was dark brown with white urates until today)
History - Came from a local breeder

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 40 breeder terrarium
Lighting - 10.0 Repti Glo tube, 75 Watt white house bulb for basking, lights on 12/12 schedule
Temperature - Temps have been a little low the past few days, as my roommate and I have been fighting about the thermostat since it has started getting cooler. I turn the heat on, but as soon as I leave she keeps turning it back off. I suppose I am going to have to get him a higher wattage bulb, maybe even two bulbs since his ambient temps are getting low as well. (That'll save us money in electricity ) Anyway, since last Wednesday or so his basking temp has been around 89-90 and ambient temps get down to 69ish.
Humidity - 30-40
Plants - None
Placement - On my dresser. No fans or vents nearby.
Location - Kennesaw, GA

Current Problem - His feces today are a very weird color and consistency (picture below). It is pretty much the same color as the butternut squash I've been feeding him the past few days so I don't know if that might be the reason, but I just wanted to be safe and get some opinions. I don't know what it looks like when they have parasites - anybody think that's a possibility? These are the first abnormal feces I've noticed from him in a while.

I am also worried because he hasn't been eating well the past week or so (All I can get him to eat is maybe 3 crickets and a chunk or two of squash per day). I feel like that's probably because he's too cold though. I am going to get him a 100 Watt bulb today.

I posted a pic of my setup too.

 

[hinoco1225]

I should also mention that I offer a lot more than he's been eating, but he just lets the crickets run free. I've tried crickets of all sizes and he is equally uninterested. I even offered a waxworm yesterday, which he used to love, but he wouldn't take it.

 

[Olimpia]

Isn't that temp too low for beardies? I never had any my self but my roommate had several and I think their temps had to be quite a bit higher than that. Something like 100-110*F, no? He might not be warm enough to digest everything.

But someone correct me if the temps are not accurate. I'm waiting to get texted back by my roommate, who certainly knows.

 

[hinoco1225]

Isn't that temp too low for beardies? I never had any my self but my roommate had several and I think their temps had to be quite a bit higher than that. Something like 100-110*F, no? He might not be warm enough to digest everything.

But someone correct me if the temps are not accurate. I'm waiting to get texted back by my roommate, who certainly knows.

Yes, the temps are too cool. I haven't gotten him a higher wattage bulb yet because I was trying to reason with my roommate about keeping the heat on in our apartment, but it doesn't look like she's going to budge. I will get him a hotter bulb today.

Good point though - it didn't cross my mind that low temps could hinder digestion. I'm going to get his temps up as soon as I can and see what happens.

 

[kinyonga]

Although the temperatures could be higher it might not be the only problem...is that calcisand you're using on the floor of the cage? If so, it has been known to lead to impaction.

 

[fluxlizard]

I can't tell from the poop- too blurry. Might very well be just the squash you are feeding. That is a real possibility. I don't think I've ever fed mine squash but certainly the coloration of certain foods will definitely show up in the poop.

If the sand is calci-sand, I'm not a fan of that product either. I don't think the substrate is the problem in this case, however, because your dragon is apparently not clogged up as it just had a bowel movement.

UNLESS- that poop is really just a horribly colored mass of urates. Which I really doubt.

Of course the way to find out is to stop the squash for a while and see if the poop returns to a normal appearance.

The coloration of the lizard's tail and rear legs in that picture doesn't look particularly cold at the moment the picture was taken- coloration looks like your dragon either just woke up and is still light from sleeping or is warmed up.

More important than coloration and size of the light bulb is the behavior of the lizard in regards to thermo-regulation- if the dragon sits under the light most of the time trying to warm up- it isn't warm enough.

When things are correct- the lizard sits under the light sometimes- especially for the first hour or so in the morning, and then for a while after eating or drinking and then for a while again in the late afternoon or evening. The rest of the day the dragon will still spend periods of time basking, but most of the time that basking will occur slightly to the side of the warmest spot, rather than directly in it. These times are really more about controlling the speed of the heat loss of the body and then "topping" up the temperature rather than really building up a large amount of heat in the body like the dragon is trying to do in the morning and after eating and in the evening before bedding down.

Like chameleons- different people have different opinions on basking temperature. Some as low as anything above 90, others as high as 120!. Most people these days fall in around 100-110 and I'd say anything in that range is good as well. But really- I trust the lizard and the behavior of the lizard a lot more than the thermometer. Try one light situation, observe the lizard for a few days, and if things aren't right, try another (higher or lower wattage, add a bulb, etc).

My best guess- It's your roommate's fault.

Especially if it is dark in your room when the dragon's light is turned off. But even if it isn't, that's still my first guess. If you are leaving and the roommate flips off the light as soon as you are gone and your dragon is going through cycles of lights off for several hours, on a few, off again when you leave to eat, etc during the day, and he's cooling down to 69 between times, it very well may effect his appetite. It may even eventually convince him that it's time to brumate and go dormant for winter...

If it were me and it was my tank and I wanted extra heat for the winter, I'd probably add a second light over the other end rather than increase the basking light. 100 watts may be quite a bit at that distance and you're original basking site is closer to the bulb so you should still have a thermal gradient maybe even if you have 2 75 watt bulbs going or a 75 and 60.

 

[hinoco1225]

I can't tell from the poop- too blurry. Might very well be just the squash you are feeding. That is a real possibility. I don't think I've ever fed mine squash but certainly the coloration of certain foods will definitely show up in the poop.

If the sand is calci-sand, I'm not a fan of that product either. I don't think the substrate is the problem in this case, however, because your dragon is apparently not clogged up as it just had a bowel movement.

UNLESS- that poop is really just a horribly colored mass of urates. Which I really doubt.

Of course the way to find out is to stop the squash for a while and see if the poop returns to a normal appearance.

The coloration of the lizard's tail and rear legs in that picture doesn't look particularly cold at the moment the picture was taken- coloration looks like your dragon either just woke up and is still light from sleeping or is warmed up.

More important than coloration and size of the light bulb is the behavior of the lizard in regards to thermo-regulation- if the dragon sits under the light most of the time trying to warm up- it isn't warm enough.

When things are correct- the lizard sits under the light sometimes- especially for the first hour or so in the morning, and then for a while after eating or drinking and then for a while again in the late afternoon or evening. The rest of the day the dragon will still spend periods of time basking, but most of the time that basking will occur slightly to the side of the warmest spot, rather than directly in it. These times are really more about controlling the speed of the heat loss of the body and then "topping" up the temperature rather than really building up a large amount of heat in the body like the dragon is trying to do in the morning and after eating and in the evening before bedding down.

Like chameleons- different people have different opinions on basking temperature. Some as low as anything above 90, others as high as 120!. Most people these days fall in around 100-110 and I'd say anything in that range is good as well. But really- I trust the lizard and the behavior of the lizard a lot more than the thermometer. Try one light situation, observe the lizard for a few days, and if things aren't right, try another (higher or lower wattage, add a bulb, etc).

My best guess- It's your roommate's fault.

Especially if it is dark in your room when the dragon's light is turned off. But even if it isn't, that's still my first guess. If you are leaving and the roommate flips off the light as soon as you are gone and your dragon is going through cycles of lights off for several hours, on a few, off again when you leave to eat, etc during the day, and he's cooling down to 69 between times, it very well may effect his appetite. It may even eventually convince him that it's time to brumate and go dormant for winter...

If it were me and it was my tank and I wanted extra heat for the winter, I'd probably add a second light over the other end rather than increase the basking light. 100 watts may be quite a bit at that distance and you're original basking site is closer to the bulb so you should still have a thermal gradient maybe even if you have 2 75 watt bulbs going or a 75 and 60.

The sand is playsand.

I know the picture is blurry - it's the best I could get. I can see a separate white strand of urates in the poop, so I don't think it's a mass of urates.

He does sit under the light a lot, which is why I think he's too cold.

I'm not sure if I was clear about my roommate - she isn't turning off the beardie's lights, she's turning off the heat to our apartment. So ambient temps in our apartment are getting down to low 60s.

I will try two bulbs instead of getting 100 Watt. Thanks for your help!

 

[lindawaz]

I agree that the temps are too low. I keep mine basking spot- 105 if at the top of their branches and the coolest spot is in a cave at 70.

That sand is not a good thing especially if the crix are on it when he hunts them. Impacting is known from that. Like Chams they should not have a substrate. clean bottom- paper towels newspaper- mine have slate tiles I can take out and wash.

Take out that water bowl it breeds bacteria and they usually poo in it then drink from it.

I water mine by (mine are weird) bringing them to the sink run the tap and they drink from the pool in my hand- I am lucky though my well water is great! I also soak them in the tub at least once a week. They actually swim under the water
I have a rock in there for them to climb on never leave them unattended and only about 3 -4 inches of water. Mine are adults

Butternut squash... I have only used it when there has been lack of poo. it acts a little bit like a diuretic and only small amounts.


I also use mercury vapor lights for them not the rep tube. These also produce heat and will help with the temps

A healthy poo closely resembles goose poo.

I would also have a fecal done- I have mine tested 2 times a year- even if it looks good better to catch anything early

 

[Texas Ranger]

Get a all in one mercury vapor bulb I use a zoo med 100 watt in a 10 in dome it works awesome. And gust raise his basking spot up until its around 110th and is will be a happy . O also try a warm soak get a bowl put warm water in it just to his belly don't make him swim lol. And let him site in of for 10 to 20 minutes he will love it or hate it but it will help. Too. Hope this helps

 

[lindawaz]

mine like to swim, as I said mine are weird... thats the same bulb I use now.
use to use the mega ray but too many problems getting them

 

[ijmccollum]

Def, need higher temps, try an under tank heater - just remember you still need a gradient - my house is never below 70F so ambient is not an issue. And 86 the sand, at this age it could cause problems. My boy didn't go on sand till he was a good 1 year old - he was on paper towles, but then he didn't graduate to a 20g till then. He is now in a 40g. Fecals are always a good idea if the animal is acting lethargic, fecals are noticably different, and eating habits have changed.

I realize young adults are under a stricter budget and wish you and yours well.

edit; sorry, the under tank heater didn't go on until he went on sand - don't want burnt bellies. Maybe try a spotlight on a rock that he can bask on.

 

[ataraxia]

things to help solve your problems.

take the play sand out and use news paper for now.

soak the dragon every other day in 90* water. judging by the size of your dragon about 1 inch will do. let him soak till water gets cool. once he/she is eating again 1-2 times a week is sufficient.

fresh greens daily. green leaf lettuce, romaine, bok choy, collard and mustard greens. you can mix these in a variety or chose to alternate.

basking temps need to stay around 100-110*. ambients high 70's to mid 80's.

prey size...make sure the crickets are appropriate size. too big and they will watch them go by. to small they will do the same.

prey variety...you might try some dubia roach nymphs.

this is just my recommendation and personal preference with dragons of that size. i would personally put him in a 20 long at the moment.

 

[hinoco1225]

things to help solve your problems.

take the play sand out and use news paper for now.

soak the dragon every other day in 90* water. judging by the size of your dragon about 1 inch will do. let him soak till water gets cool. once he/she is eating again 1-2 times a week is sufficient.

fresh greens daily. green leaf lettuce, romaine, bok choy, collard and mustard greens. you can mix these in a variety or chose to alternate.

basking temps need to stay around 100-110*. ambients high 70's to mid 80's.

prey size...make sure the crickets are appropriate size. too big and they will watch them go by. to small they will do the same.

prey variety...you might try some dubia roach nymphs.

this is just my recommendation and personal preference with dragons of that size. i would personally put him in a 20 long at the moment.

Thanks for the advice.

Out of curiosity, what is the purpose of soaking him? He's not impacted and he's well-hydrated. I do notice the occasional yellow/orange tinge in my chams' urates indicating dehydration (rarely), but I have never seen anything less than pure white urates from my beardie.

I do offer fresh greens daily. Collard greens, mustard greens and kale are my usuals. I also offer yellow squash or butternut squash every few days.

I am going to try to increase the temps.

I have tried crickets of all sizes. It really doesn't seem to make a difference to him. He is at the size right now where he can (and does) eat fully grown crickets, but he will still eat smaller ones as well. Just not many lately.

As far as roaches go... We'll see. I'm not particularly excited at the prospect of keeping roaches, but I certainly will if it turns out he just doesn't like crickets, but will eat roaches. It's not my next step though. First I am going to try to raise his temps and see if anything changes over the next few days. If he continues not eating well with higher temps, I will have a fecal done. If that comes back clean, then I might try offering roaches. I'm not quite ready to take the plunge and get any yet. Plus, I just placed a huge feeder order today. 1000 crickets, 100 silkworms and 30 hornworms. He really ought to start eating, lol

 

[AReptile]

He might just be tired of the crickets. I have 3 beardies, my 2 females live together and will eat ANYTHING of any size. I had a huge number of crickets and i needed to cut down quick so I dropped about 100 crickets in with my 2 females and they ate pretty much all of them while my male i dont even think managed to eat 10 in his tank. Today i went to give him crickets and he still didnt want anymore, but i dropped in superworms n they disappeared before they hit the ground lol. Try those other feeders and see if he accepts them, having picky beardies past the baby stage is not really a common problem for them lol.

 

[ataraxia]

purpose of soaking him has many benefits. supports hydration all around. his skin gets some and it helps shed. he will fill his body full of air that also aids in this. soaking will also help the dragon defecate. if he is needing a little water he will also drink. exercise.. more benefits can be had. all in all its a great practice.

dont give to much kale.

a smaller tank may help him find everything he needs much easier.

also try pinching the rear legs off the cricket by pinching with your finger nail right at the knee on a cricket. it will fall off on it own and make the cricket much slower. i have had a few dragons with eye sight problems. this helped out a bit.

 

[ataraxia]

if you choose to use super worms feed as a snack.

 

[hinoco1225]

purpose of soaking him has many benefits. supports hydration all around. his skin gets some and it helps shed. he will fill his body full of air that also aids in this. soaking will also help the dragon defecate. if he is needing a little water he will also drink. exercise.. more benefits can be had. all in all its a great practice.

dont give to much kale.

a smaller tank may help him find everything he needs much easier.

also try pinching the rear legs off the cricket by pinching with your finger nail right at the knee on a cricket. it will fall off on it own and make the cricket much slower. i have had a few dragons with eye sight problems. this helped out a bit.

Ok, I will soak him today.

I don't really think it's that he's having trouble finding the crickets - he's just not interested in them. He ignores them even when they walk right in front of his face.

I don't have a 20L, but I do have a 15 gallon. That is what I had him in until pretty recently, but it really seemed too small since he's been growing so much lately. Do you think I should put him back in it?

if you choose to use super worms feed as a snack.

I'm not really a fan of supers. My chams have only gotten them a few times, and I've yet to offer them to my dragon. I've just seen one too many reptiles get addicted to them, refuse all other food, and become impacted as a result. One customer I have at work STILL feeds his beardie only superworms after a recent impaction. -.-

 

[emilybier]

Just a note.
Play sand is fine and even encouraged as long as you are feeding out of a dish or separate enclosure and the beardie is old enough. It is very important not to let them hunt on the sand. I know breeders who keep all of their adults on sand but they wait until their babies are grown. Until then, they keep them on newspaper. Your beardie is a little too young for sand.

 

[ataraxia]

yes the 15 gallon will work. you may want to recheck your temps with another gauge. if the dragon is to cold they will refuse food.

i agree with you on the supers

if you choose sand another thing is you will have to clean the sand out completely every 2-4 weeks. it will stink to high heaven and will harvest all the urates and some poo that you wont be able to just scoop up = a breeding ground for all kinds of baddies. when i use a substrate i do container feed as mentioned above.

 

[hinoco1225]

yes the 15 gallon will work. you may want to recheck your temps with another gauge. if the dragon is to cold they will refuse food.

i agree with you on the supers

if you choose sand another thing is you will have to clean the sand out completely every 2-4 weeks. it will stink to high heaven and will harvest all the urates and some poo that you wont be able to just scoop up = a breeding ground for all kinds of baddies. when i use a substrate i do container feed as mentioned above.

I added another bulb to his enclosure today, and he really seemed to perk up after an hour or so. I didn't offer any food because I didn't get the new bulb on until early evening and I don't like to feed any later than mid-afternoon. So maybe the temps were the big problem - we'll see what happens tomorrow.

As far as the sand and tank go, I'm really torn. I tend to air on the side of keeping things as natural as possible in captivity. I like for him to be able to hunt naturally, have a lot of space, have a more natural substrate, etc. But on the other hand, I do understand the reasons why sand is risky, especially to feed on. I just can't decide. I feel like it's stimulating for him to be able to hunt on his own rather than feeding him in a separate container, but I also don't really like the thought of putting him on a very unnatural substrate like paper towels. (I know that playsand is very different from the type of sand they live on in the wild, but it's the closest simulation that I'm aware of.) I don't know... I certainly don't want to put him at risk. But I'm having trouble deciding whether I'd prefer to lose the sand or stop letting him hunt. And even though I know it's safer to pick one of those options, I still feel like they both neglect him in a way as well.

I just feel like there's no ideal way to keep them in captivity. Which is obvious, I suppose