Worried about bearded dragon

[ataraxia]

im pretty sure the surface they eat off has a little loose sand or dirt but for the most part it is compacted versus every last bit being extremely loose. im being honest with you. the sand/news paper wont stimulate him to eat any different. it will actually make it easier for him to capture prey on news paper.

 

[fluxlizard]

I'll weigh in again with my opinion.

Sand is OK for animals 8" or so long. In your case- because the lizard isn't eating so well, I'd recommend removing it for a while until your lizard gets a bit larger and keeping him on paper towels- maybe 12-14" which isn't as long away as you might think (couple months). I do not recommend sand for bearded dragons under 8" because it can indeed cause impaction. Larger dragons have larger digestive systems and are far less prone to impaction from accidentally eating sand- I kept mine on it for years and they seemed to pass sand right on through without any problem.

I'm not a fan of newspaper- too slippery and no traction which can cause mild development abnormalities on the bones and muscle and cause some amount of strain on the joints- especially knees and hips. Not enough that the average person might even notice, but I've seen it on dragons raised on newspaper and probably the dragons felt it over time in the stress on their knees and hips. Well- come to think of it, I don't believe this entirely- if the dragon has plenty of climbing furniture like rocks or branches for example and doesn't spend all day in the enclosure that is quite a bit different.

Ceramic tile is a pretty good idea and sort of the current fad. As long as it is rough so the dragons can get traction, and not smooth like bathroom tile, I think it is a pretty good idea. The downsides I think are the fact that it can be quite cool to the touch if it isn't being actively heated by something (like when the lights go off at night) and perhaps more importantly (dragons can take cool quite well) it does not allow dragons to dig and scratch around which they love to do. I suppose a sandbox situation in the tile enclosure might be a compromise, but most dragons would quickly scatter sand all over the place outside the sandbox.

I also have a big philisophical difference with "tilers" in that they insist that the australian desert is entirely hard baked clay substrate and therefore tile is the closest approximation to nature. Which is incredibly incorrect. First of all, hard baked clay is nothing like tile which makes me wonder if they have ever been to a hard baked desert in real life. Tile is like rock which would also be fairly natural for them to crawl around on, but not like hard sun baked clay which is still softer than rock, can be scratched around on with sharp claws, and has good deal of dirt/sand/dust around on it. Secondly bearded dragon habitat is actually quite varied- they occur over a wide range and are fairly adaptable. I'm not saying they never occur on hard baked clay but they occur on a lot more substrate than that. Go to google and search for pictures of central australia desert and southern australia desert. Most pics come up with landscapes and substrate very much like central-southern Utah or Nevada during the summer- right down to the brush and everything with soil that is sandy and quite a bit of gravel in places. Dragons also occur in areas with dry grasses and in areas that look very much like a sandbox. Using google you can find photos of wild dragons in very sandy areas. If you go to PBS.org and go to nova and watch the lizard kings (or you can find the link on my blog in the lizard intelligence entry) you can see bearded dragons in the red sands area for just a moment or two out of the entire documentary (which is worth watching anyway even though it focuses on monitor lizards- really cool stuff). These bearded dragons and other lizards in that area are running around on miles and miles of extremely sandy substrate- looks like sandbox sand but red. So loose it is easy to track even small lizards over it because they leave foot and tailprints in a trail when they move about. So loose a monitor can dig in a complete burrow for the night in a few minutes time.

Ataraxia is right about the feeding- there should be no problem keeping him on a simpler substrate- dragons are really adaptable- I don't even use substrate at all with mine until they are 6" snout to vent these days because it makes feeding simpler. Just as Ataraxia is saying- it can make hunting easier without the clutter and may help that way.

I don't think you need to stress too much over what way is the best way when it comes to substrate. They are very adaptable. Just play it safe for now and then decide what works well in your situation.

 

[Olimpia]

I also have a big philisophical difference with "tilers" in that they insist that the australian desert is entirely hard baked clay substrate and therefore tile is the closest approximation to nature. Which is incredibly incorrect. First of all, hard baked clay is nothing like tile which makes me wonder if they have ever been to a hard baked desert in real life. Tile is like rock which would also be fairly natural for them to crawl around on, but not like hard sun baked clay which is still softer than rock, can be scratched around on with sharp claws, and has good deal of dirt/sand/dust around on it. Secondly bearded dragon habitat is actually quite varied- they occur over a wide range and are fairly adaptable. I'm not saying they never occur on hard baked clay but they occur on a lot more substrate than that. Go to google and search for pictures of central australia desert and southern australia desert. Most pics come up with landscapes and substrate very much like central-southern Utah or Nevada during the summer- right down to the brush and everything with soil that is sandy and quite a bit of gravel in places. Dragons also occur in areas with dry grasses and in areas that look very much like a sandbox. Using google you can find photos of wild dragons in very sandy areas. If you go to PBS.org and go to nova and watch the lizard kings (or you can find the link on my blog in the lizard intelligence entry) you can see bearded dragons in the red sands area for just a moment or two out of the entire documentary (which is worth watching anyway even though it focuses on monitor lizards- really cool stuff). These bearded dragons and other lizards in that area are running around on miles and miles of extremely sandy substrate- looks like sandbox sand but red. So loose it is easy to track even small lizards over it because they leave foot and tailprints in a trail when they move about. So loose a monitor can dig in a complete burrow for the night in a few minutes time.

I agree with this. I have a feeling most people have never been to a desert of any sort and have no idea what they're talking about. Wind continuously erodes rock, hence sand, pebbles, dust, etc. Leopard gecko people say the same thing about their environment, but something tells me they're never been anywhere remotely dry.

 

[lindawaz]

I have the tile floor not glued down placed down so I can remove and wash dirty ones.

I also have a kitty litter box in there with sand in it, when they have the scratching or digging urge I find them in their sandboxes.

 

[hinoco1225]

I have the tile floor not glued down placed down so I can remove and wash dirty ones.

I also have a kitty litter box in there with sand in it, when they have the scratching or digging urge I find them in their sandboxes.

I really like the idea of using tile or newspaper as substrate and having a separate sandbox as well. I think I will do that. Thanks!

 

[hinoco1225]

Update

So it turns out, my bearded dragon is infested with parasites. I took him to the vet today and got him dewormed, and I'll take him back in a couple of weeks to do another fecal to see if it's cleared up. The vet was very knowledgeable and helpful, which was nice. She said she thinks he has probably had the parasites since before I got him, so that makes me feel a little better. I hope he will turn around and start acting like a bearded dragon should very soon.

 

[lindawaz]

He is he doing now? What medication did the vet put him on.

When do you have the fecal recheck?
Has raising the basking temps helped?
My beardies hate crickets. They like horned,butter, super and their veggies.

I use the rough tile only because it is easy clean up, don't have to keep buying something for the floor, it has no loops like the reptile carpet to catch their toe nails and it helps keep their nails ground down to a decent length. I never thought of it as a substitute for the hard desert- I was just thinking easy clean up.

When was the last time he shed?
okay done since I asked way too many questions....

 

[ataraxia]

I agree with this. I have a feeling most people have never been to a desert of any sort and have no idea what they're talking about. Wind continuously erodes rock, hence sand, pebbles, dust, etc. Leopard gecko people say the same thing about their environment, but something tells me they're never been anywhere remotely dry.

personally never been to australia. although i did live 30-45 minutes from death valley. living in the desert of southern nevada (pahrump) for a little while. it is quite compacted despite any wind attempts to loosen it up.. yes we did have some semi loose sand but i never experienced anything like a sand box.

op: glad you figured this out. please tell us how is he doing.

 

[hinoco1225]

He is he doing now? What medication did the vet put him on.

When do you have the fecal recheck?
Has raising the basking temps helped?
My beardies hate crickets. They like horned,butter, super and their veggies.

I use the rough tile only because it is easy clean up, don't have to keep buying something for the floor, it has no loops like the reptile carpet to catch their toe nails and it helps keep their nails ground down to a decent length. I never thought of it as a substitute for the hard desert- I was just thinking easy clean up.

When was the last time he shed?
okay done since I asked way too many questions....

The vet gave him one dose of Panacur and said that should do the trick. She suggested I come back to get a fecal done in 2-4 weeks to make sure he's all cleared up.

I put him back in his 15-gallon tank with paper towels as substrate for now. I also washed all of his ornaments really well. I am trying to decide what I want to do for substrate when I put him back in his 40, but I don't know yet. I really like sand. But obviously I wouldn't like it so much if he became impacted. I just feel like the hard surface created by tile/newspaper/paper towels is too unnatural and will be very stressful on his joints. I want him to have some sort of "softer" substrate, something with some give. I think I am leaning toward the idea of tile substrate with a sandbox on one end. We'll see.

He has been eating much better since he got the Panacur, and he's actually shedding right now. I've been soaking him pretty regularly and he seems to like it. He still hasn't been very active though, but at least he's eating.

 

[laurie]

If you feel you need a substrate I buy the cheap indoor.outdoor carpet at home depot. Not the crap that looks like astro turf, but rather the stuff with almost no pile. You will have to spot clean daily and I change out the carpets twice a week. It comes like 12' across so for a few dollars you get a good amount of liners. If you spray them at the carwash they are ready to reuse.

 

[darkcirca]

What about doing tiles or paper towels for the cage and giving the dragon a sandbox?

This is what we did with ours. She eats outside of it, but has the sand to dig and lay in (which she loves).