Worms killing chameleon eggs

[Eric Adrignola]

I've noticed this before - but not in a long time. I have a few veiled eggs out of a clutch that are fertile, and near the end of their incubation, but they're not very calcified. They're yellowish. Most of the time, these things hatch anyway.

However, some have been swarmed by tiny white worms. They almost seem to come from the egg - they penetrate them and eat them out. Some worms growing very long in the process - several millimeters. I WISH I had a camera for my microscope (Christmas/birthday present... I need to put these things down on a list).

They are white, with rounded heads. They appear to be annelids, not nematodes, as they do not seem to have that side to side motion of nematodes - they seem to have ring muscles and segments - but it's hard to be sure, as I've just got a CLM, not a dissecting scope.

I was thinking they were nematodes in the soil, and were just attacking the eggs now because they are softening up. They're due to hatch in a month or so. They're in vermiculite, but the soil the female laid in was still on some of the eggs.

They are not fly larvae, for certain. These are worms, lacking any legs or leg segments. I'm leaning towards them being nematodes, and that the evidence to the contrary is just incorrectly interpreted on my part...

any ideas?

Edit: look like grindal worms...

 

[kinyonga]

Do you have flies around about the size of fruit flies that move with a jerky motion when walking on a surface?

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Nope nope - defiantly not phorid flies! Been there, done that! Those s**mb*g flies got into my first clutch of deremensis eggs and ate the babies alive in the shell.

I now use airtight containers for my eggs. Plus, these worms are clearly not larvae - they are disgusting nonetheless!

I looked up pictures of white worms on google, and found sites with grindal worm cultures for feeding fish. Closeup pics look exactly like these bastards. Heck, the breeding methods pretty much describe the conditions required to incubate veiled eggs! I might try breeding them to feed baby veileds! Irony...

The round heads and lack of leg buds make it clear they're not larvae. I'm thinking they're not nematodes because they have ring muscles - they move in an earthworm like contracting motion. Nematodes have just longitudinal muscles (and pointy heads, usually), and move with a side to side motion as a result. That classic "parasitic worm" movement is lacking here - it's typical annelid movement.

 

[nick barta]

Where is SandraChameleon when you need her?

 

[KatiLemons]

Ok, so I know this is an old thread but just wanted to find out what people are thinking about this now?
We have a clutch of 20 eggs: 10 have hatched, one is piped and we have 8 that are all sweating. The first baby hatched, August 19th. There was a 10 day hault (Sept 8th) and then they started piping again. A couple more have hatched from then till now. About a week ago I noticed one egg was shrinking but still not hatched. We have had several other eggs pipe and hatch since this one had shrunk. Today, my boyfriend said he thought he saw the egg move. He further investigated the egg and found that there were infact, WORMS on it. He has taken an entomology class and believes that they are nematodes. They move side to side and are about less than 1mm in size. The are not larva or fly worms. About 15 of them on the underside of the egg. He used a handheld microscope. Has anyone else figured out what this is? We are wondering if the egg is filled with these or what? We quarantined the egg and have kept it in hatchrite in the incubator. I'm interested to see if it will hatch!

 

[kinyonga]

Do you see little flies that move with a jerky motion anywhere around?

 

[KatiLemons]

Nope, no flies. My boyfriend is thinking its from the soil but we thought also that maybe the mother passed them down??

 

[little leaf]

Do you see little flies that move with a jerky motion anywhere around?

what are these flies ? I have seen that question asked before - are they only dangerous to eggs ?

 

[kinyonga]

They are phorid flies and they will lay their eggs on the chameleon eggs. They can get into even well sealed containers....and through the deal on your fridge or freezer. They come in with the crickets.
Phorid flies can spread diseases like other flies can.

Some species are useful though...they are used to kill fire ants.

 

[KatiLemons]

If it is flies that laid the eggs of the worms and we just haven't seen them, will they kill or harm the other eggs that particular eggs was housed with? Also, is the egg that the worms on dead?? Should we just leave it or break it open to see?

 

[junglefries]

brands

Do we know the soil and or vermiculite brands? I am (now) using playsand and the red/white topsoil bag from Lowes & Home Depot. Both are organic which worries me as anything could be living in the soil. I have a second ?. You always hear about leaving the laying bin in with your females. What about her pooing in it and how often or at all are people changing out the soil? Also, have 6 clutches of veils and am wondering about the chances of invaders? Actually going to start a new thread on these topics right now for those who might want to educate us willing to learn.

 

[KatiLemons]

Our female's cage doesn't have a plant on it because of her laying eggs so often. The first couple clutches she started digging in her plant pot and it was a pain to have to continously have to dig through it when we saw her digging. We put a laying bin with fresh soil (organic potting soil) and it stays in for a couple days until she is done laying. She never has pooped in it that we know of. Once she lays the laying bin is taken out until she's ready to lay again. We make them fresh everytime, never reusing the soil.

 

[kinyonga]

If the chameleon egg is not leaking fluids or has no holes in the shell its likely okay. The other chameleon eggs should be fine as long as there were no insect eggs laid on them that haven't hatched yet. Sometimes the larva will hatch and be under the chameleon eggs though...so you have to watch for that.