WC Melleri assistance please
- Thread starter AJA
- Start date
AJA
Established Member
UPDATE: Kizzy's fecal came back negative for parasites, however, they have found blood in her stool. I am trying to get her into the vet today for a blood draw. In the meantime I am now hydrating her manually with 12 ml of water 2x a day. Needless to say I have a lizard who is not feeling real good at the moment. She keeps her eyes closed all the time but at least she is not at the bottom of the cage. I have her in a cooler with a towel to keep her comfortable until I can get her to the vet.
PardalisGirl
Avid Member
Keeping her in my thoughts.....
Amy and I talked about Kizzy on the phone yesterday. I'll once again express my thoughts and prayers for her. Please keep us updated on the vet visit and any further treatment. Good Job on getting her hydrated!
Amy and I talked about Kizzy on the phone yesterday. I'll once again express my thoughts and prayers for her. Please keep us updated on the vet visit and any further treatment. Good Job on getting her hydrated!
AJA
Established Member
UPDATE back from vet:
No blood work was done, but instead we did swabbing of mouth and cloaca to get a reading for salmonella. Unfortuneatly there was blood on the swab from the cloaca, so even though her temp was normal, the vet put her on baytril to fight any infections that might be going on in her system. Also with any luck the baytrill will kill the salmonella if there is any. She was also put on Carafate to help sooth her stomach lining, it is even pink like pepto bismol.
She will be on baytril (IM) for two weeks! It will take a few days to get the test results back. The vet didn't care for all of her back scabs and put some goop on those as well.
On a good note her weight was up 15 grams since I got her, so I am happy with that at least.
No blood work was done, but instead we did swabbing of mouth and cloaca to get a reading for salmonella. Unfortuneatly there was blood on the swab from the cloaca, so even though her temp was normal, the vet put her on baytril to fight any infections that might be going on in her system. Also with any luck the baytrill will kill the salmonella if there is any. She was also put on Carafate to help sooth her stomach lining, it is even pink like pepto bismol.
She will be on baytril (IM) for two weeks! It will take a few days to get the test results back. The vet didn't care for all of her back scabs and put some goop on those as well.
On a good note her weight was up 15 grams since I got her, so I am happy with that at least.
summoner12
Avid Member
Careful with the baytril. Kristina told me of a time she had one of her adults on it for 21 days and it killed the cham. It should be used lightly.
If there is blood I don't think the outcome is all that great
. but I really do hope she (or he?) pulls through!
BTW what ever happened with a laying bin... maybe she is egg bound? did you look into that at all?
If there is blood I don't think the outcome is all that great
. but I really do hope she (or he?) pulls through! BTW what ever happened with a laying bin... maybe she is egg bound? did you look into that at all?
Fearaffect
Avid Member
salmonella....yes, please do tell me what the results are!!!!!!!!! Now u have me scared.........granted I washed my hands each time handling WC animals, but there was a cig or 2 that I didnt......
....yes, please do tell me what the results are!!!!!!!!! Now u have me scared.........granted I washed my hands each time handling WC animals, but there was a cig or 2 that I didnt......
chams1
Member
If used properly with melleri (as with any cham), Baytril can be okay for a 2 week period. It is/should be done by weight. I have had to use it on occasion for a few of my melleri over the last few years for mouth infections and other things. Just keep an eye on Kizzy during the time you are administering the Baytril. Maybe this might kill any type of infection. However, it could be that she may be bleeding internally?? Pretty curious about that one. I had a female panther once that had an abscessed liver and she bled internally. Not trying to freak you out, just trying to come up with some sort of solution here. I hope that she does get better though.
AJA
Established Member
Yes, I found on Melleri Discovery the article on the baytril and the vet did calculate weight (this is an avian / reptile / exotic vet) . I did find her on the bottom of her cage one morning when I left her outside over night. It got into the low 40s and I haven't had her out at night since, so there is the possibility that she hurt herself in a fall. The vet did some palpatations as well. When she took the temp there was no blood on the probe, then there was blood on the swab so perhaps the swab re-irritated something?
Kizzy still has good coloring and a good grip so hopefully this will continue.
I am tempted to take her to work with me every day so I can mist her occasionally and keep her in a temperature controlled environment, but that may contribute to her stress load now.
Brye, how long did Andy have her before you got her? I am thinking she has been in the States for a month. Oh and Brye, those dang cigerettes will kill you before any salmonella will.
Summoner, I think you have me confused with another melleri posting - no eggs here.
Kizzy still has good coloring and a good grip so hopefully this will continue.
I am tempted to take her to work with me every day so I can mist her occasionally and keep her in a temperature controlled environment, but that may contribute to her stress load now.
Brye, how long did Andy have her before you got her? I am thinking she has been in the States for a month. Oh and Brye, those dang cigerettes will kill you before any salmonella will.
Summoner, I think you have me confused with another melleri posting - no eggs here.
Fearaffect
Avid Member
I think he did have her for some time......he was getting low on quantity.....but he said the melleri get sold quickly, so maybe he didnt. IF and WHEN I can get a hold of him again, I will ask.Yes, I found on Melleri Discovery the article on the baytril and the vet did calculate weight (this is an avian / reptile / exotic vet) . I did find her on the bottom of her cage one morning when I left her outside over night. It got into the low 40s and I haven't had her out at night since, so there is the possibility that she hurt herself in a fall. The vet did some palpatations as well. When she took the temp there was no blood on the probe, then there was blood on the swab so perhaps the swab re-irritated something?
Kizzy still has good coloring and a good grip so hopefully this will continue.
I am tempted to take her to work with me every day so I can mist her occasionally and keep her in a temperature controlled environment, but that may contribute to her stress load now.
Brye, how long did Andy have her before you got her? I am thinking she has been in the States for a month. Oh and Brye, those dang cigerettes will kill you before any salmonella will.
Summoner, I think you have me confused with another melleri posting - no eggs here.
What happened to your werneri girl??
AJA
Established Member
Nothing, she is fine.
Fearaffect
Avid Member
AJA
Established Member
What is the best way to give the Baytril? My vet prescribed injections, but I am reading where oral is better. Thoughts? These injections are once a day.
Has anyone given Nutri Bac after a Baytril treatment?
Would it do anything to give the Rept Aid at the same time or would all the antibiotics just counter react everything?
Has anyone given Nutri Bac after a Baytril treatment?
Would it do anything to give the Rept Aid at the same time or would all the antibiotics just counter react everything?
chams1
Member
I have always tried to avoid injections in chams unless absolutely necessary. I have always given the baytril orally. If you are uncomfortable giving it orally, you can always inject it into a feeder worm (such as a hornworm or silkworm) and then feed the worm to the cham. This is, of course, assuming the cham is eating.
Edit: Just read the rest of your question...(duh). This is a question for the vet, but as with all medications, it is best not to overdue it. While Reptaid is all-natural, I, myself, would err on the side of caution and only give the meds alone if they are perscribed. I have used Reptaid and have had great success with it, however if you are supposed to use the meds, I would just use the meds at that time. Just my opinion....
PardalisGirl
Avid Member
My Comments.....
Regarding the Baytril....I believe that there are two separate types. One is injected and one oral. They are formulated differently and dosed differently. Follow the instructions for what you were given.
I would leave her at home where she will be in her usual environment. Just make sure you manually hydrate her every day. I would do the 12 ml by syringe at least once each day. Twice if she does not drink during showers and misting. Keeping her hydrated during the Baytril is extremely important. I would use the Reptaid as directed. Since the Baytril is injected it won't interfere with anything in the gut. Use the pro-biotic type treatment after her Baytril treatments are finished. The injectible stuff won't kill off as much of the good bacteria in the gut as oral medications would.
If there is blood on the swab that means there is lower intestinal tract bleeding. Bleeding in the stomach or elsewhere turns black as it goes through the system. I'm betting on the salmonella or a general infection. Like you said, the Baytril should take care of both. Salmonella does creep down into the lower GI tract.
Good deal on her weight. I would weigh her every three days to make sure she is not losing. Let us know when you get the test results. Keeping your girl in my thoughts. I'd like her to come over for a play date later this year
Regarding the Baytril....I believe that there are two separate types. One is injected and one oral. They are formulated differently and dosed differently. Follow the instructions for what you were given.
I would leave her at home where she will be in her usual environment. Just make sure you manually hydrate her every day. I would do the 12 ml by syringe at least once each day. Twice if she does not drink during showers and misting. Keeping her hydrated during the Baytril is extremely important. I would use the Reptaid as directed. Since the Baytril is injected it won't interfere with anything in the gut. Use the pro-biotic type treatment after her Baytril treatments are finished. The injectible stuff won't kill off as much of the good bacteria in the gut as oral medications would.
If there is blood on the swab that means there is lower intestinal tract bleeding. Bleeding in the stomach or elsewhere turns black as it goes through the system. I'm betting on the salmonella or a general infection. Like you said, the Baytril should take care of both. Salmonella does creep down into the lower GI tract.
Good deal on her weight. I would weigh her every three days to make sure she is not losing. Let us know when you get the test results. Keeping your girl in my thoughts. I'd like her to come over for a play date later this year
summoner12
Avid Member
swabbing the vent of a melleri is a tricky task... it is why it is not recommended to attempt sexing them in this fashion.
I would imagine you might have tisturbed some tissue...
what kind of temps is the cham getting?
I would imagine you might have tisturbed some tissue...
what kind of temps is the cham getting?
studiocham
New Member
Real quick, as I just came in from the studio and need to catch some sleep-
The mention of a fall on a cold night got my attention. The cloaca swab (not to be confused with probing to sex an animal) with blood might be indicating internal injuries from the fall... especially if the cham lost consciousness in the cold and failed to inflate before impact.
Also, if the wild melleri was large enough to retain ambient day temp into the evening (bigger than a hatchling) while in the wild, chances are it has been infected by microfilaria via mosquito(es). These worms burrow through tissue and move in and out of the GI tract and everything else, leaving lesions that bleed. It is possible that the blood is from the migrations of such an infestation.
Depression and "off" behavior sometimes comes around the eighth day or so of daily Baytril therapy. They need showers daily to cope with both the stress of being dosed/handled, and the chemicals. If the animal was depressed before that, I'd look at internal injury from the fall again. Ultrasound?
Also, the MD was down and is up now. It is being moved to a new server. I lost internet access for over a week, so the process was delayed. The whole thing is copied and waiting, just now working on the domain name switch. Glad to know it is still helpful to people and animals!
The mention of a fall on a cold night got my attention. The cloaca swab (not to be confused with probing to sex an animal) with blood might be indicating internal injuries from the fall... especially if the cham lost consciousness in the cold and failed to inflate before impact.
Also, if the wild melleri was large enough to retain ambient day temp into the evening (bigger than a hatchling) while in the wild, chances are it has been infected by microfilaria via mosquito(es). These worms burrow through tissue and move in and out of the GI tract and everything else, leaving lesions that bleed. It is possible that the blood is from the migrations of such an infestation.
Depression and "off" behavior sometimes comes around the eighth day or so of daily Baytril therapy. They need showers daily to cope with both the stress of being dosed/handled, and the chemicals. If the animal was depressed before that, I'd look at internal injury from the fall again. Ultrasound?
Also, the MD was down and is up now. It is being moved to a new server. I lost internet access for over a week, so the process was delayed. The whole thing is copied and waiting, just now working on the domain name switch. Glad to know it is still helpful to people and animals!
AJA
Established Member
After reading articles from Chameleon News and MD, I am hoping to reduce the amount of handling as much as possible. I spoke to my vet about giving the Baytril orally as opposed to injections, because I felt the constant needle poking would accumilate the stress. Even though the needle is very small, she is sensetive to touch as I have tried to pick off her scabs.
Giving the Baytril via IM it will enter the bloodstream quicker and is more potent, having it go through the stomach you lose some punch with it as Catherine has said. I spoke to the vet about this and she said it would be okay to go orally with the Baytril as she prescribed a medium dose. I suppose I could alternate between IM and oral to keep things even.
Kristina, thank you for the input, I have forwarded your comments to my vet for consideration. My vet did palpate her and didn't see/feel anything to give any indication of internal injuries.
Her temp was 73 yesterday and her color still looks good. This morning she gave me a hard time so that pleases me as well. I am keeping her in a large plastic bin on a towel.
Good idea on the weigh in Catherine thank you. I stuffed a small silkworm down her gullet yesterday and washed it down, but I am hesitatant in feeding her because if her gut should shut down I don't want food rotting away inside her.
Will let you all know what the test results are as soon as we get them in.
Giving the Baytril via IM it will enter the bloodstream quicker and is more potent, having it go through the stomach you lose some punch with it as Catherine has said. I spoke to the vet about this and she said it would be okay to go orally with the Baytril as she prescribed a medium dose. I suppose I could alternate between IM and oral to keep things even.
Kristina, thank you for the input, I have forwarded your comments to my vet for consideration. My vet did palpate her and didn't see/feel anything to give any indication of internal injuries.
Her temp was 73 yesterday and her color still looks good. This morning she gave me a hard time so that pleases me as well. I am keeping her in a large plastic bin on a towel.
Good idea on the weigh in Catherine thank you. I stuffed a small silkworm down her gullet yesterday and washed it down, but I am hesitatant in feeding her because if her gut should shut down I don't want food rotting away inside her.
Will let you all know what the test results are as soon as we get them in.
PardalisGirl
Avid Member
Feeding...........
Does Kizzy open her mouth when you touch her? If she does, you can try putting crickets, roaches, silkworms or hornworms in her mouth with part of the insect in the mouth and part out of the mouth (from the side angle). If she chomps down and then decides to chew and swallow on her own I would continue doing that. That is a sign that her system is not shut down and that she is receptive to eating. If, after two attempts she is spitting the insect out, stop doing it. That is a sign that she is not feeling good enough to eat. Eating small amounts, if possible, along with the hydration will keep her on a path of gaining weight. It will help boost her immune system.
I'm thinking the blood is from whatever was causing her to keep her eyes closed before you found her on the bottom of the cage. She was exhibiting signs of not being well before that incident of the possible fall. It seems logical to me that the blood is another sign. You did not notice the blood in the stool sample you brought in so you would not have noticed it before if it was there. The vet tech found it when it was under the microscope. The red blood cells were noticeable then.
I agree that the oral Baytril will be less stressful. I always hated how chams look when you stick them with a needle. I could tell they felt a burn of the medicine after the plunger was pushed. They always seemed to react to that rather than the stick of the needle itself.
Did you take her to work? Is that why she's in a tub?
Does Kizzy open her mouth when you touch her? If she does, you can try putting crickets, roaches, silkworms or hornworms in her mouth with part of the insect in the mouth and part out of the mouth (from the side angle). If she chomps down and then decides to chew and swallow on her own I would continue doing that. That is a sign that her system is not shut down and that she is receptive to eating. If, after two attempts she is spitting the insect out, stop doing it. That is a sign that she is not feeling good enough to eat. Eating small amounts, if possible, along with the hydration will keep her on a path of gaining weight. It will help boost her immune system.
I'm thinking the blood is from whatever was causing her to keep her eyes closed before you found her on the bottom of the cage. She was exhibiting signs of not being well before that incident of the possible fall. It seems logical to me that the blood is another sign. You did not notice the blood in the stool sample you brought in so you would not have noticed it before if it was there. The vet tech found it when it was under the microscope. The red blood cells were noticeable then.
I agree that the oral Baytril will be less stressful. I always hated how chams look when you stick them with a needle. I could tell they felt a burn of the medicine after the plunger was pushed. They always seemed to react to that rather than the stick of the needle itself.
Did you take her to work? Is that why she's in a tub?
AJA
Established Member
Kizzy fell first, then it was a few days after that she went off feed and has her eyes shut all the time. She does not gap at me at all so it is technically force feeding her as opposed to assisting feeding. Stop?
She is at home, again to reduce stress. However, this keeps her out of my misting system. She is in a tub so she won't have to exert any more energy than necessary to maintain herself. I suppose a chameleon clinging onto a branch is like us sitting down, just second nature to them and no worries, but if she should fall again .... perhaps I am babying her too much?
Something else I haven't mention, is that when she is on the ground she is off balance. She walks like a drunken sailor. I wonder if she keeps her eyes closed because she is nausiated?
She is at home, again to reduce stress. However, this keeps her out of my misting system. She is in a tub so she won't have to exert any more energy than necessary to maintain herself. I suppose a chameleon clinging onto a branch is like us sitting down, just second nature to them and no worries, but if she should fall again .... perhaps I am babying her too much?
Something else I haven't mention, is that when she is on the ground she is off balance. She walks like a drunken sailor. I wonder if she keeps her eyes closed because she is nausiated?
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