Waterfalls!

[Samuel]

Ive been thinking about this subject for a while now and its really started to bug me. Lots of the people on here dont recommend waterfalls because the bacteria that breeds so quick in it but surely the same thing happens with a dripper: 1.because the cham cant drink all the drops 2.it dosnt all evapourate 3.you have a standing bowl of water underneath the dripper 4.after a misting the water condensates on plants and sits there:confused 5.even with automatic misters you have a standing reservoire of water that shouldnt be chlorinated so hence a bacteria breeding ground. Please correct me if im wrong but also let me know if these points are valid.

 

[yoza717]

Waterfalls recirculate water.

On drippers....most people cover their bowls with a grid/screen to prevent the chameleons from getting in it.

Also people provide plenty of drainage when using misters so the water either gets absorbed by the plants and as time to dry or drains out away from the enclosure.

Bottom line is no water is standing or getting reused.

 

[chambabysitter1]

As stated, a waterfall is recirculating water filled with poop and feeders.

A dripper and misting system is coming from a seperated reservoir with access for dead bugs or poop to fall into.

Also, a waterfall IS NOT a substitute for misting.

1. Chameleon doesn't need to drink every drop, but a dripping motion best simulated dripping dew or a trickle of rain.

2. It doesn't need to evaporate. You should have a proper draining solution, because the amount of water going through the cage should be significant. If it is not your chameleon is in danger of being dehydrated if not already being so.

3. Standing bowl should be covered up anyways, so it can't be pooped in and have dead feeders. You should have a better drainage solution anyways, as previously stated.

4. Water sitting on plants is good. Chameleons lap up water aka "dew" off the leaves. This is the NATURAL way they drink. Not treetop waterfalls. Eventually the water evaporates and gets replaced with another misting session with CLEAN water.

5. Reseviour should be clean? I don't see the problem.

Pretty much a waterfall is VERY unnatural to a chameleon.

They drink when it rains, or collect dew off leaves in the morning. Not finding treetop waterfalls circulating poop/deadfeeder water.

 

[dragongoddess]

In agreeing with Yoza, no water is reused or standing for very long. I empty my catch bowl nightly and wipe down the bottom of the cage. My water reservoir has a tight lid and is not in a position where it could be polluted. The water in my reservoir never lasts longer than a week and is never reused.
Waterfalls reuse the water and could easily be polluted by anything that would fall into it. It also introduces a drowning danger and since chameleons do not drink standing water it is unnecessary.

 

[ciafardo 4]

You wanna know what really bugs me is how people just wanna use waterfalls so bad why?????????? They are cheesy anyway if your to lazy to mist or fill drippers and discard the old water then get a snake not a chameleon.These animals do best when their enclosure is kept as clean as possible . Daily removal of feces and dead feeders is crucial to their health .Also keeping live plants not artificial,leaves clean is a must.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

If you have a good filter system and wanna do a naturalistic background
with Great Stuff, you can rig up a pretty extensive waterfall or even better,
a drip wall.

Setting up some mineral rich rocks along the drip wall would be a great idea
so as the drips travel down they gather some trace minerals for your cham.
Along with some vines that would climb up the background that would catch
some water would also be great.

You would need a good filter system for this, like the ones used for fish aquariums.

I don't see a problem at all with doing waterfalls/drip walls the RIGHT way,
but buying an Exo-Terra waterfall, if that's what you wanna call that
cheap POS, is not the answer.

If you want a waterfall, go for it. Just do it the right way. They aren't cheesy at all
and add an entirely new dimension to keeping your reptiles in a naturalistic vivarium.

This is 'kinda' what I mean. For a chameleon you would have to tweak a lot of the
background; i.e. add branches/bark for gripping and sturdy vines for climbing.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/vivarium waterfall/freakofnature_810/dartfrognearlyfinished.jpg

Just Google Image search 'Waterfall Vivarium' and 'Vertical Vivarium' for some ideas.

 

[Rocky]

When I first got my veiled I got him a waterfall and he loved it. I maintained it well, but I never saw feces or feeders get in the water. I did take it out though just because if it's seen in a picture you will literally have all hell rained down on you

A drip wall would be really cool i think.

 

[chequepoint]

Good aquarium filters rely on extensive bacteria production. They are designed to filter large particulates, and to facilitate the nitrogen cycle, but do nothing to purify the water apart from some iffy carbon filtration. Thats why you have to do such extensive water changes on reef tanks.

I'll maintain that there is nothing natural about a chameleon living a few feet from a recirculating body of water its whole life. No matter how badly you want to break out that can of great stuff.

Rain water and dew are relatively pure, and its what these animals were biologically evolved to drink. I'm not saying that it can't be done, I'm saying if you do it and the animal manages to stay healthy, it will be in spite of what you're doing, not because of what you're doing.

If you have a good filter system and wanna do a naturalistic background
with Great Stuff, you can rig up a pretty extensive waterfall or even better,
a drip wall.

Setting up some mineral rich rocks along the drip wall would be a great idea
so as the drips travel down they gather some trace minerals for your cham.
Along with some vines that would climb up the background that would catch
some water would also be great.

You would need a good filter system for this, like the ones used for fish aquariums.

I don't see a problem at all with doing waterfalls/drip walls the RIGHT way,
but buying an Exo-Terra waterfall, if that's what you wanna call that
cheap POS, is not the answer.

If you want a waterfall, go for it. Just do it the right way. They aren't cheesy at all
and add an entirely new dimension to keeping your reptiles in a naturalistic vivarium.

This is 'kinda' what I mean. For a chameleon you would have to tweak a lot of the
background; i.e. add branches/bark for gripping and sturdy vines for climbing.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/vivarium waterfall/freakofnature_810/dartfrognearlyfinished.jpg

Just Google Image search 'Waterfall Vivarium' and 'Vertical Vivarium' for some ideas.

 

[ciafardo 4]

Good aquarium filters rely on extensive bacteria production. They are designed to filter large particulates, and to facilitate the nitrogen cycle, but do nothing to purify the water apart from some iffy carbon filtration. Thats why you have to do such extensive water changes on reef tanks.

I'll maintain that there is nothing natural about a chameleon living a few feet from a recirculating body of water its whole life. No matter how badly you want to break out that can of great stuff.

Rain water and dew are relatively pure, and its what these animals were biologically evolved to drink. I'm not saying that it can't be done, I'm saying if you do it and the animal manages to stay healthy, it will be in spite of what you're doing, not because of what you're doing.

THANK YOU! chequepoint! Brock are you telling us that fish tank water is completely safe to drink? Also how do you think this drip wall would look after a couple weeks? Why is it so hard to just stick to the basics to ensure the over all health of the animal? If you want to see them in their natural habitat ,dust off the ol passport and contact the airline.

 

[Samuel]

You wanna know what really bugs me is how people just wanna use waterfalls so bad why?????????? They are cheesy anyway if your to lazy to mist or fill drippers and discard the old water then get a snake not a chameleon.These animals do best when their enclosure is kept as clean as possible . Daily removal of feces and dead feeders is crucial to their health .Also keeping live plants not artificial,leaves clean is a must.

i mist my chams by hand two to three times a day so i dont think this is lazy and personally i dont like the waterfulls either was just getting answers on a topic which has been bugging me.

 

[Samuel]

In agreeing with Yoza, no water is reused or standing for very long. I empty my catch bowl nightly and wipe down the bottom of the cage. My water reservoir has a tight lid and is not in a position where it could be polluted. The water in my reservoir never lasts longer than a week and is never reused.
Waterfalls reuse the water and could easily be polluted by anything that would fall into it. It also introduces a drowning danger and since chameleons do not drink standing water it is unnecessary.

i would like to correct you when you say chams dont drink standing water because i have two that do and the dealer i bought them from is one of the biggest importers of reptiles in the UK and his personal pet chams do aswell as some of my friends chams but not all do

 

[jojackson]

Ive been thinking about this subject for a while now and its really started to bug me. Lots of the people on here dont recommend waterfalls because the bacteria that breeds so quick in it but surely the same thing happens with a dripper: 1.because the cham cant drink all the drops 2.it dosnt all evapourate 3.you have a standing bowl of water underneath the dripper 4.after a misting the water condensates on plants and sits there:confused 5.even with automatic misters you have a standing reservoire of water that shouldnt be chlorinated so hence a bacteria breeding ground. Please correct me if im wrong but also let me know if these points are valid.

Correct! Dripper and mister resevoirs should also be cleaned regularly. Anerobic bacteria will build up inside any water holder (underwater) and aerobic bacteria above.
Logically, if you were prepared to clean a small waterfall entirely and daily
this shouldnt be an issue. But how many folk, busy with life outside chams will actually end up doing that, every day? And it leaves the issue of the waterfalls collection area being open for lizards to crap in, cricks etc to drown in....Your call!

Most want to do it because they get this idea of a 'naturalistic look' in their heads. But you just dont see chameleons hanging out at waterfalls in the wild.
A fall might be great for raising humidity, but if your trying to make things 'naturalistic' for the lizard, then a dripper, dripping droplets over leaves etc is exactly what they experience and drink from in nature, because they live in trees! Same for misting, it rains!

would like to correct you when you say chams dont drink standing water because i have two that do and the dealer i bought them from is one of the biggest importers of reptiles in the UK and his personal pet chams do aswell as some of my friends chams but not all do

Again Sam, correct. Most dont, simply because they dont need to. A wild cham may go to ground during a dry period when it hasnt rained and drink from a puddle or the like that hasnt evaporated, but its not their first choice, ever. Some, (veileds) simply take to munching plants for both nutrition and moisture in dry periods (when insects will also be scarce).
That said, captivity is not natural in any way, If theres only a bowl of water, then the lizard hasnt much choice, especially if its not a plant eater and insects are not providing sufficient moisture. But this will still not be the lizards first instinctive (behavioural) choice.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

I would hope if you were using aquarium filters you'd know to clean them out
regularly, especially if you are using it for a lizard and not for fish.

Not all bacteria is bad.

You can run the water through a UV filter between the filter system and the
drip wall/waterfall. This will take care of any living organisms in the water.

Just use common sense here for keeping things sanitary and free of nasties and
you can definitely have a beautiful drip wall in your chameleon's vivarium.

I will build one this summer and make a construction journal about it so you
can see what I am talking about.

Again, I would stress that a drip wall would be more conventional than a full on
waterfall and stream/pool.

 

[chequepoint]

UV sterilizers still leave all those dead nasties in the water to further decay. I'll say it again, aquarium filters are designed to grow bacteria of all sorts. In fact, by over cleaning a filter you destroy its effectiveness.

Like I said, I'm not doubting you can do it, or that you will do it. In fact, I'm sure you will. And you'll be doing it for your benefit, at the unnecessary risk of harming your animal.

You'll post a nice build thread/blog.. it will be pretty. People will ooh and ah, and other people will attempt to copy you. 9 months down the road when you start to have problems, you'll stay nice and quiet. That's how garbage ends up on the internet.

 

[xanthoman]

UV sterilizers still leave all those dead nasties in the water to further decay. I'll say it again, aquarium filters are designed to grow bacteria of all sorts. In fact, by over cleaning a filter you destroy its effectiveness.

Like I said, I'm not doubting you can do it, or that you will do it. In fact, I'm sure you will. And you'll be doing it for your benefit, at the unnecessary risk of harming your animal.

You'll post a nice build thread/blog.. it will be pretty. People will ooh and ah, and other people will attempt to copy you. 9 months down the road when you start to have problems, you'll stay nice and quiet. That's how garbage ends up on the internet.

checkmate,& well put

 

[jojackson]

I dont see why a dripwall wouldnt work, but If I did that, it would be a manual straight through system still (dripper running over faux wall) water to drainage, not recycled.
Though if a cham would be inclined to drink from a wall v's leaves I cant say, though I cant see why not, logically a dripper nozzel is no more different to a leaf surface than a wall, and they happily use the nozzle.
No, not all bacteria is bad, but if its not part of the Nitrogen cycle (breaking down biological matter), what does it serve?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_cycle