Thoughts on setup

[letterkenny]

Wife and I are new Panther chameleon owners. We did a lot of research on here, some YouTubers, other websites and… Reddit. My wife uses that more than I do as I’m a traditional forums guy. That said, according to them, my setup which should be okay is a death trap there so I wanted to get thoughts here before changing anything especially given the startup costs incurred. So here it goes.

Yes it’s a glass enclosure with a screen top and ventilation slots on the front. I added a SensorPush into it in a middle spot to have continuous data but it’s fresh so not a ton yet. From constant checking, I see ambient temps in the 72-77 during the day and low 50s humidity going to 65 and 80s humidity after lights out. I am trying the water cup gimmick because I feel more opportunities to drink the better so why not (keeping it clean). All water is RODI made at home. It has a T8 UVB 5.0 that’s lifted about 4.5” off the top mesh of the enclosure while a 3D printed stand is being ordered. The basking lamp is a 60w incandescent (swapped from the blue tinted (but white light) 40/45 bulb the store got me to get) which results in I believe high 80s basking at the top. (When he’s not up there I’ll try to move a sensor there to see. An infrared heat gun puts the exo Tera vine at like 80-85, wood gets hotter, the skin of the actual chameleon can get much higher when basking directly but not sure if that’s because overall absorption or what a normal temp should be on the actual animal). The lamp is height adjustable so I can rise as needed if too hot or bring down as well. I bought and will add two more exo terra vines for more climbing space in front and back and will replace the one and only fake plant with real ones once we get things settled down.

We bought as bioactive and put in isopods and springtails. We will clean it but like the overall look which is why we went this direction. All plants were checked chameleon safe. We were hand misting on top of the existing water glass trial by hand but I added a mistland system (the same Chinese one you can get from 5x company’s) that’s set to go for 20 seconds before lights on and then 20 seconds after lights off. Note the dish within is his feeder dish which he mainly gets dubias and the treat super worm/hornworm (no crickets). These are supplemented and fed to gut load. I have two USB fans set on the lowest fan settings in a push/pull configuration (resting on the screen top next to each other) that runs during lights on time. Everything is hooked up to a Kasa smart strip. (Wish there was other smart automation items out there like the saltwater aquarium trade but just getting into this and learning).

My questions: overall thoughts on this setup? Namely, light position, intensity, hydration (misting schedule and amount, adding a water dripper, a reptizoo water dispenser), etc? Reddit says I’m going to kill this because of the substrate and a glass enclosure but all the articles and threads here contradict this. Just want to provide a good home while also trying to meet the goals I have set up for the design we would like. While we would extremely prefer not to get a new enclosure given what this cost, we would if needed and see a Reptizoo one that has 6” of screen on each side panel along with a screen top that could be a candidate (but $590 plus fitting it out).

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome! So very glad that you’re here. We have many members who have ‘defected‘ from Reddit. Personally, I only went there once, looked at some pics and that was enough for me.From the information you have provided, I don’t see anything that will be killing your chameleon. I do however see some room for improvement. For your husbandry, the biggest concern I see is your temps of upper 80’s is a bit too hot. Using glass and a smaller size greatly limits the heat dissipation. I have nothing against using glass enclosures provided they have adequate air flow and are appropriate to your climate and conditions. The only concern I have for yours is the size is too small for an adult chameleon. While you have your enclosure set up very pretty, I’m not sure how happy your chameleon will be in it. The small size limits his movements and reduces your ability to provide decent gradients of both temperature and humidity. It also doesn’t provide for him to have the ability to move around very much. The standard minimum size for an adult panther chameleon is 2x2x4’’ or equivalent. The only glass enclosure that I have seen that would be okay would be Exo Terra’s XL paludarium. There are of course, screen and hybrid enclosures that are the right size and won’t take a massive bite out of the wallet. For the price, I really like these over similar ReptiBreeze. The ways to modify them to meet your needs is almost endless...everything from leaving as is, to wrapping a shower curtain around the back to creating faux panels to fit. You can set them up bioactively by either adding something like a root pouch to contain your substrate (the method I use) or create a bin to your liking. However you do it, fill it up with lots of branches and vines to provide lots of little chameleon roads and lots of plants to provide areas to hide/take shade in and drink from. There are also lots of ways to attach branches, vines and plants. I love Dragon Ledges. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ However, recently I had to set up and enclosure without them and used scraps of plastic garden trellis that I had. In the past I’ve created a scaffolding structure by attaching support sticks to the enclosure frame. If later you want to give your chameleon even more space, you can attach two screen enclosures side by side quite easily. https://chameleonacademy.com/double-wide-chameleon-cage-project/ I had my males in double wides and they used all of the space…my girls, not so much. Anyhow, here’s some pics of some of my enclosures to give you an idea.
There are a couple of other items, such as using a T8 instead of a T5, but I’ll let someone else address those for now. I talk too much as it is.

 

[MissSkittles]

I forgot to provide the link for the enclosure. Sorry. https://www.diycages.com/collection...ducts/sc4-48x24x24-jumbo-vertical-screen-cage

 

[letterkenny]

Hi and welcome! So very glad that you’re here. We have many members who have ‘defected‘ from Reddit. Personally, I only went there once, looked at some pics and that was enough for me.From the information you have provided, I don’t see anything that will be killing your chameleon. I do however see some room for improvement. For your husbandry, the biggest concern I see is your temps of upper 80’s is a bit too hot. Using glass and a smaller size greatly limits the heat dissipation. I have nothing against using glass enclosures provided they have adequate air flow and are appropriate to your climate and conditions. The only concern I have for yours is the size is too small for an adult chameleon. While you have your enclosure set up very pretty, I’m not sure how happy your chameleon will be in it. The small size limits his movements and reduces your ability to provide decent gradients of both temperature and humidity. It also doesn’t provide for him to have the ability to move around very much. The standard minimum size for an adult panther chameleon is 2x2x4’’ or equivalent. The only glass enclosure that I have seen that would be okay would be Exo Terra’s XL paludarium. There are of course, screen and hybrid enclosures that are the right size and won’t take a massive bite out of the wallet. For the price, I really like these over similar ReptiBreeze. The ways to modify them to meet your needs is almost endless...everything from leaving as is, to wrapping a shower curtain around the back to creating faux panels to fit. You can set them up bioactively by either adding something like a root pouch to contain your substrate (the method I use) or create a bin to your liking. However you do it, fill it up with lots of branches and vines to provide lots of little chameleon roads and lots of plants to provide areas to hide/take shade in and drink from. There are also lots of ways to attach branches, vines and plants. I love Dragon Ledges. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ However, recently I had to set up and enclosure without them and used scraps of plastic garden trellis that I had. In the past I’ve created a scaffolding structure by attaching support sticks to the enclosure frame. If later you want to give your chameleon even more space, you can attach two screen enclosures side by side quite easily. https://chameleonacademy.com/double-wide-chameleon-cage-project/ I had my males in double wides and they used all of the space…my girls, not so much. Anyhow, here’s some pics of some of my enclosures to give you an idea.
There are a couple of other items, such as using a T8 instead of a T5, but I’ll let someone else address those for now. I talk too much as it is.
View attachment 344436View attachment 344437View attachment 344438

Thanks for the detailed reply. Agree on the cage and we are considering changing to the one I linked over time (24x24x48 hybrid glass/mesh). On the temps, I believe I read that was the appropriate basking temp? This is the temp only at that spot on the perch at the top, everywhere else it’s quite a bit lower in the low to mid 70s. On the UV light, did you mean getting a T5 vs a T8 (I have a T8 now as that’s what they had available)?

 

[letterkenny]

For some context on temps, this is my overnight graph since installing the sensor (see photo for location I have this which should be upper ambient).

 

[Beman]

Hey there welcome to the forum... Just going to give some feedback see my info in bold red.

Wife and I are new Panther chameleon owners. We did a lot of research on here, some YouTubers, other websites and… Reddit. Avoid reddit like the plague you will get a lot of incorrect and outdated husbandry info there. My wife uses that more than I do as I’m a traditional forums guy. That said, according to them, my setup which should be okay is a death trap there so I wanted to get thoughts here before changing anything especially given the startup costs incurred. So here it goes. Not a death trap but lacking in a few areas. You will have an issue with the size of the enclosure for an adult male. It is a bit too small for him.

I see you are running a pc fan on top. That is great just make sure it is sitting so it is pulling air up and out of the top of the enclosure not blowing air into it.
You do need more horizontal areas for sitting. Do not use exo terra vines. The coating can flake off into their eyes. The moss ones are no good either. If using fake vines flukers are the only ones I recommend.

Yes it’s a glass enclosure with a screen top and ventilation slots on the front. I added a SensorPush into it in a middle spot to have continuous data but it’s fresh so not a ton yet. From constant checking, I see ambient temps in the 72-77 during the day and low 50s humidity going to 65 and 80s humidity after lights out. Temps and humidity are fine for day and then night. But at night make sure you get a temp drop below 70. I am trying the water cup gimmick because I feel more opportunities to drink the better so why not (keeping it clean). This is not a good idea... Reddit started this idea and honestly it is an epic fail for chams. They drink from moving water. All water is RODI made at home. It has a T8 UVB 5.0 that’s lifted about 4.5” off the top mesh of the enclosure while a 3D printed stand is being ordered. So the T8 will not work lifted like this... Where the cham is at he is getting no usable UVB. You want to set the T8 with the 5.0 directly on the screen top. With a 5.0 there is a shallow distance of usable UVB. So if your branches are sitting about 6 inches down the cham will be in the right UVB levels where it rises up off the branch. Your looking at The basking lamp is a 60w incandescent (swapped from the blue tinted (but white light) 40/45 bulb the store got me to get) which results in I believe high 80s basking at the top. (When he’s not up there I’ll try to move a sensor there to see. An infrared heat gun puts the exo Tera vine at like 80-85, wood gets hotter, the skin of the actual chameleon can get much higher when basking directly but not sure if that’s because overall absorption or what a normal temp should be on the actual animal). The lamp is height adjustable so I can rise as needed if too hot or bring down as well. So he can get far too close to the heat lamp. I am betting temps there are much hotter than you expect. The concern here is a thermal burn all along the spine. I would lift the fixture up so it is at least 4 inches away from the screen. Put a sensor probe there to see what temp your actually getting on the branch. You want it no hotter than 82-83 because where they rise up it will be much hotter. I bought and will add two more exo terra vines for more climbing space in front and back and will replace the one and only fake plant with real ones once we get things settled down.

We bought as bioactive and put in isopods and springtails. We will clean it but like the overall look which is why we went this direction. All plants were checked chameleon safe. We were hand misting on top of the existing water glass trial by hand but I added a mistland system (the same Chinese one you can get from 5x company’s) that’s set to go for 20 seconds before lights on and then 20 seconds after lights off. Note the dish within is his feeder dish which he mainly gets dubias and the treat super worm/hornworm (no crickets). These are supplemented and fed to gut load. I have two USB fans set on the lowest fan settings in a push/pull configuration (resting on the screen top next to each other) that runs during lights on time. Everything is hooked up to a Kasa smart strip. (Wish there was other smart automation items out there like the saltwater aquarium trade but just getting into this and learning).

My questions: overall thoughts on this setup? Namely, light position, intensity, hydration (misting schedule and amount, adding a water dripper, a reptizoo water dispenser), etc? No reptizoo water dispenser... They get nasty. You can use a plastic solo cup with a few tiny pin holes in the bottom. set on top of the cage and add ice cubes for a slow drip. Reddit says I’m going to kill this because of the substrate and a glass enclosure but all the articles and threads here contradict this. Just want to provide a good home while also trying to meet the goals I have set up for the design we would like. While we would extremely prefer not to get a new enclosure given what this cost, we would if needed and see a Reptizoo one that has 6” of screen on each side panel along with a screen top that could be a candidate (but $590 plus fitting it out).

I think you will find there are better options than the cage your looking at... If you want quality lifetime cage then check into tamura designs. You can do fully bio active in these as well https://tamura-designs.com/

Reddit is incorrect about glass and hybrid enclosures killing chams. Glass can work when it is set up correctly. Issue is most are not the size we need for an adult chameleon. This takes us into the many hybrid styles. But you get much better air circulation in a hybrid because it has more air intake at the bottom for the chimney effect. The other thing about a bioactive in a hybrid is it allows you to have proper drainage. This in turn allows for misting sessions that are longer which chams need to clean their eyes.

 

[letterkenny]

Hey there welcome to the forum... Just going to give some feedback see my info in bold red.

Wife and I are new Panther chameleon owners. We did a lot of research on here, some YouTubers, other websites and… Reddit. Avoid reddit like the plague you will get a lot of incorrect and outdated husbandry info there. My wife uses that more than I do as I’m a traditional forums guy. That said, according to them, my setup which should be okay is a death trap there so I wanted to get thoughts here before changing anything especially given the startup costs incurred. So here it goes. Not a death trap but lacking in a few areas. You will have an issue with the size of the enclosure for an adult male. It is a bit too small for him.

I see you are running a pc fan on top. That is great just make sure it is sitting so it is pulling air up and out of the top of the enclosure not blowing air into it.
You do need more horizontal areas for sitting. Do not use exo terra vines. The coating can flake off into their eyes. The moss ones are no good either. If using fake vines flukers are the only ones I recommend.

Yes it’s a glass enclosure with a screen top and ventilation slots on the front. I added a SensorPush into it in a middle spot to have continuous data but it’s fresh so not a ton yet. From constant checking, I see ambient temps in the 72-77 during the day and low 50s humidity going to 65 and 80s humidity after lights out. Temps and humidity are fine for day and then night. But at night make sure you get a temp drop below 70. I am trying the water cup gimmick because I feel more opportunities to drink the better so why not (keeping it clean). This is not a good idea... Reddit started this idea and honestly it is an epic fail for chams. They drink from moving water. All water is RODI made at home. It has a T8 UVB 5.0 that’s lifted about 4.5” off the top mesh of the enclosure while a 3D printed stand is being ordered. So the T8 will not work lifted like this... Where the cham is at he is getting no usable UVB. You want to set the T8 with the 5.0 directly on the screen top. With a 5.0 there is a shallow distance of usable UVB. So if your branches are sitting about 6 inches down the cham will be in the right UVB levels where it rises up off the branch. Your looking at The basking lamp is a 60w incandescent (swapped from the blue tinted (but white light) 40/45 bulb the store got me to get) which results in I believe high 80s basking at the top. (When he’s not up there I’ll try to move a sensor there to see. An infrared heat gun puts the exo Tera vine at like 80-85, wood gets hotter, the skin of the actual chameleon can get much higher when basking directly but not sure if that’s because overall absorption or what a normal temp should be on the actual animal). The lamp is height adjustable so I can rise as needed if too hot or bring down as well. So he can get far too close to the heat lamp. I am betting temps there are much hotter than you expect. The concern here is a thermal burn all along the spine. I would lift the fixture up so it is at least 4 inches away from the screen. Put a sensor probe there to see what temp your actually getting on the branch. You want it no hotter than 82-83 because where they rise up it will be much hotter. I bought and will add two more exo terra vines for more climbing space in front and back and will replace the one and only fake plant with real ones once we get things settled down.

We bought as bioactive and put in isopods and springtails. We will clean it but like the overall look which is why we went this direction. All plants were checked chameleon safe. We were hand misting on top of the existing water glass trial by hand but I added a mistland system (the same Chinese one you can get from 5x company’s) that’s set to go for 20 seconds before lights on and then 20 seconds after lights off. Note the dish within is his feeder dish which he mainly gets dubias and the treat super worm/hornworm (no crickets). These are supplemented and fed to gut load. I have two USB fans set on the lowest fan settings in a push/pull configuration (resting on the screen top next to each other) that runs during lights on time. Everything is hooked up to a Kasa smart strip. (Wish there was other smart automation items out there like the saltwater aquarium trade but just getting into this and learning).

My questions: overall thoughts on this setup? Namely, light position, intensity, hydration (misting schedule and amount, adding a water dripper, a reptizoo water dispenser), etc? No reptizoo water dispenser... They get nasty. You can use a plastic solo cup with a few tiny pin holes in the bottom. set on top of the cage and add ice cubes for a slow drip. Reddit says I’m going to kill this because of the substrate and a glass enclosure but all the articles and threads here contradict this. Just want to provide a good home while also trying to meet the goals I have set up for the design we would like. While we would extremely prefer not to get a new enclosure given what this cost, we would if needed and see a Reptizoo one that has 6” of screen on each side panel along with a screen top that could be a candidate (but $590 plus fitting it out).

I think you will find there are better options than the cage your looking at... If you want quality lifetime cage then check into tamura designs. You can do fully bio active in these as well https://tamura-designs.com/

Reddit is incorrect about glass and hybrid enclosures killing chams. Glass can work when it is set up correctly. Issue is most are not the size we need for an adult chameleon. This takes us into the many hybrid styles. But you get much better air circulation in a hybrid because it has more air intake at the bottom for the chimney effect. The other thing about a bioactive in a hybrid is it allows you to have proper drainage. This in turn allows for misting sessions that are longer which chams need to clean their eyes.

Very helpful, thank you! On the fans, I have two there with one pushing air in and the other pulling it out. Should I just have one (or switch to two) pulling air out to create the negative air pressure within to stimulate the chimney effect?

I’ll go ahead and move the UV down to the top and am placing another probe I have at the top there to map the temps. On the misting, how long/often should you do? I know Neptune says 2 minutes lights out and lights on a day but it seems 20 seconds gets the leaves misted and wondering if that more frequently would be better.

Lastly, would a Jackson or another breed be good for this enclosure? Given the pricing and all, I’d be tempted to reuse this for something else versus scrapping/selling.

Edit: one last thing: what are the thoughts on the 40w blue bulb that I was originally recommended before switching it out?

 

[Beman]

Very helpful, thank you! On the fans, I have two there with one pushing air in and the other pulling it out. Should I just have one (or switch to two) pulling air out to create the negative air pressure within to stimulate the chimney effect?

I’ll go ahead and move the UV down to the top and am placing another probe I have at the top there to map the temps. On the misting, how long/often should you do? I know Neptune says 2 minutes lights out and lights on a day but it seems 20 seconds gets the leaves misted and wondering if that more frequently would be better.

Lastly, would a Jackson or another breed be good for this enclosure? Given the pricing and all, I’d be tempted to reuse this for something else versus scrapping/selling.

Edit: one last thing: what are the thoughts on the 40w blue bulb that I was originally recommended before switching it out?

You want them both to be pulling air up and out of the enclosure. This helps with your chimney method pulling the clean air in at the bottom vents then up and out.

I recommend at least 2 minutes at a time for misting. This will depend a lot on your ambient levels, enclosure type etc. But you want it long enough so the cham can clean their eyes drink etc.

I see nothing wrong with the 40 watt blue because it actually does not shine a blue light it is white.

If you made some tweeks to this enclosure then yes you could absolutely house a smaller species in this enclosure.

 

[letterkenny]

You want them both to be pulling air up and out of the enclosure. This helps with your chimney method pulling the clean air in at the bottom vents then up and out.

I recommend at least 2 minutes at a time for misting. This will depend a lot on your ambient levels, enclosure type etc. But you want it long enough so the cham can clean their eyes drink etc.

I see nothing wrong with the 40 watt blue because it actually does not shine a blue light it is white.

If you made some tweeks to this enclosure then yes you could absolutely house a smaller species in this enclosure.

Thanks. I’m testing the temps now and will switch back to the blue light most likely as it’s a better wattage. I added more climbing space for now as we consider next steps.

Any more info on the Tamara designs? I’ll do a search here but seems like an interesting option or going for a dragon stand potentially.

 

[Beman]

Thanks. I’m testing the temps now and will switch back to the blue light most likely as it’s a better wattage. I added more climbing space for now as we consider next steps.

Any more info on the Tamara designs? I’ll do a search here but seems like an interesting option or going for a dragon stand potentially.

Here is Tamura designs website https://tamura-designs.com/

Here is Dragon strand https://dragonstrand.com/

They are both wonderful. I have had multiple Dragon Strand enclosures. here is my media album on my enclosures. https://www.chameleonforums.com/media/albums/my-enclosures.6672/

 

[MissSkittles]

Your current enclosure would be wonderful for something like a crested gecko.

 

[Newtoreptiles]

Hi and welcome! So very glad that you’re here. We have many members who have ‘defected‘ from Reddit. Personally, I only went there once, looked at some pics and that was enough for me.From the information you have provided, I don’t see anything that will be killing your chameleon. I do however see some room for improvement. For your husbandry, the biggest concern I see is your temps of upper 80’s is a bit too hot. Using glass and a smaller size greatly limits the heat dissipation. I have nothing against using glass enclosures provided they have adequate air flow and are appropriate to your climate and conditions. The only concern I have for yours is the size is too small for an adult chameleon. While you have your enclosure set up very pretty, I’m not sure how happy your chameleon will be in it. The small size limits his movements and reduces your ability to provide decent gradients of both temperature and humidity. It also doesn’t provide for him to have the ability to move around very much. The standard minimum size for an adult panther chameleon is 2x2x4’’ or equivalent. The only glass enclosure that I have seen that would be okay would be Exo Terra’s XL paludarium. There are of course, screen and hybrid enclosures that are the right size and won’t take a massive bite out of the wallet. For the price, I really like these over similar ReptiBreeze. The ways to modify them to meet your needs is almost endless...everything from leaving as is, to wrapping a shower curtain around the back to creating faux panels to fit. You can set them up bioactively by either adding something like a root pouch to contain your substrate (the method I use) or create a bin to your liking. However you do it, fill it up with lots of branches and vines to provide lots of little chameleon roads and lots of plants to provide areas to hide/take shade in and drink from. There are also lots of ways to attach branches, vines and plants. I love Dragon Ledges. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ However, recently I had to set up and enclosure without them and used scraps of plastic garden trellis that I had. In the past I’ve created a scaffolding structure by attaching support sticks to the enclosure frame. If later you want to give your chameleon even more space, you can attach two screen enclosures side by side quite easily. https://chameleonacademy.com/double-wide-chameleon-cage-project/ I had my males in double wides and they used all of the space…my girls, not so much. Anyhow, here’s some pics of some of my enclosures to give you an idea.
There are a couple of other items, such as using a T8 instead of a T5, but I’ll let someone else address those for now. I talk too much as it is.
View attachment 344436View attachment 344437View attachment 344438

Wow such a beautiful enclosure.

 

[letterkenny]

Any other enclosures to consider? I was thinking the Dragon Strand hybrid but wondering if it’s not the best since I don’t know if I’ll use all the ledge system given I want to foam it. Emailed Tamura designs but might be a bit too pricey for me when incorporating shipping.

 

[MissSkittles]

Any other enclosures to consider? I was thinking the Dragon Strand hybrid but wondering if it’s not the best since I don’t know if I’ll use all the ledge system given I want to foam it. Emailed Tamura designs but might be a bit too pricey for me when incorporating shipping.

There are https://www.zenhabitats.com/ which are quite nice. I have a horizontal one for one of my beardie’s and it’s quite sturdy. There are no built in ledges or anything from which to hang branches, so it would need a foam background or other modification for that.

 

[regal81455]

I'd just build your own, then you get exactly what fits the space you have - it's not all that hard and there's plenty of examples on this board to spring off of. That's how I handled it. JMO