vitamin A deficiency? Male vield closing right eye
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jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
You can research this yourself, but here's one good reference with the author's references as well.
Mader's REPTILE MEDICINE AND SURGERY, Second Edition. Page 289:
"In the early 1990s, a magazine article suggested that chameleons are susceptible to Vitamin A intoxication. After this unsubstantiated claim [emphasis mine], commercial dusts were marketed with only carotene as a Vitamin A source. Cases of Vitamin A deficiency in chameleons then began to appear. Affected Veiled and Panther chameleons show ocular lesions, respiratory dysfunction, spinal kinking, dysecdysis, and increased formation of hemipenal plugs."
The authors referenced:
Stahl SJ: Captive management, breeding and common medical problems of the veiled chameleon (Chamaeleo calyptratus) Proc Assoc Rept Amphib Vet 1997:29
Ferguson GW, Jones JR, Gehrmann WH, et al: Indoor husbandry of the panther chameleon Chamaeleo (Furcifer) pardalis: effects of dietary vitamins A and D and ultraviolet irradiation on pathology and life history traits, Zoo Biol 15:279, 1996
Mawtyplant
Chameleon Enthusiast
What kind of insect in nature contain preformed vit A? i try to figure it out :/
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Animals with livers have a lot. Other insects have it in their eyes. Crickets are a poor source of Vitamin A as far as I know.
Unfortunate about the overlap of numbers...but...
http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm
Another one...
https://books.google.ca/books?id=fg...oAQgfMAI#v=onepage&q=waxworms retinol&f=false
http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_nutrient_content_of_insects.htm
Another one...
https://books.google.ca/books?id=fg...oAQgfMAI#v=onepage&q=waxworms retinol&f=false
Last edited:
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
When insects grow up wild and free they eat a much bigger variety of organic foods. All wild bugs therefore contain a much higher level of all vitamins and minerals than the insects we culture at home!
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think that is a poor choice because it is too high in animal protein which can cause gout. Why wouldn't you use a known quantity (and hopefully quality) human-grade Vitamin A?
Surferchick
New Member
If someone can please make a comment about this supplement i am using for my chameleon... https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-Calcium-Plus-LoD-Sizes/dp/B00DLJRMV2
Look at the ingredients list. It seems that it has everything in there including Vitamin A. Do I still have to gut-load the crickets still? Please be aware that I do not want vitamin toxicity. Especially with fat soluble... it is hard to excrete. On google: The fat-soluble vitamins, A, D, E, and K, are stored in the body for long periods of time and generally pose a greater risk for toxicity when consumed in excess than water-soluble vitamins.
Here is interesting read i found online
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/chat-with-dr-gary-w-ferguson.html
Look at the ingredients list. It seems that it has everything in there including Vitamin A. Do I still have to gut-load the crickets still? Please be aware that I do not want vitamin toxicity. Especially with fat soluble... it is hard to excrete. On google: The fat-soluble vitamins, A, D, E, and K, are stored in the body for long periods of time and generally pose a greater risk for toxicity when consumed in excess than water-soluble vitamins.
Here is interesting read i found online
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/chat-with-dr-gary-w-ferguson.html
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
A dab of vitamin A oil (in the form of Retinyl Palmitate) once a month on the back of one bug does wonders for the health of Panther Chameleons! Especially for their eye health!!! Go to the drug store and buy the best quality they have! Poke a hole in a gell capsule with a needle and put the smudge of oil on the back or a cricket or worm!
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
That's what I do. Females producing eggs get it twice a month every once in awhile because they put enough Vitamin A into their eggs to last the babies for months.
It's not only eye health, but any duct in the body gets plugged up by improper shedding of the cells lining the duct. Kidneys, pancreas, etc. Even shedding is affected. So are sperm plugs.
Mawtyplant
Chameleon Enthusiast
i Know for the vitamins but about the preformed A you have any scientific source to support it? or its just your impression? because if they can't convert non preformed source more than their need (the bugs
), whats the difference between my gutloaded crickets and cricket in the wild, what about silk, horn or any other available food source? And in the present case.. i propose to be caution vit Vit A problem.. there is a lot of other cause to a "one eye close problem" and.. Vit A are balanced with D3.. and Vit A are toxic so i suggest too really think how to help this animal and not jump in the first hypothesis (could be more dangerous than helpfull :/).. So for your cham, go to a good vet and ask for blood punction, maybe it can save your chameleon.. maybe there is a probleme other than vit A, maybe there is a small shedding piece it the eyes? of, sunburn? uvb sunburn? and a good checkup with the parameter can be a good idea.
in other hand.. you should try Vit A but low dosage and carefully!
to my part, i give preformed vit a every month too my chameleon but i have melleri and i think melleri need it because they eat small lizard and small animal (like small bird..) but does veiled eat small animals in nature?
of course.. we need more scientific prouf about the preformed Vit A issue and for the moment we just need to be carefull :/
Mawtyplant
Chameleon Enthusiast
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/zoo.10039/abstract this is a nice article about the Vit A and eggs
PJK
Established Member
Yes you will still need to gutload your insects if only to clear out their digestive tract of the chicken feed they feed them at the distributers, but it also will bring up their nutritional value. In the wild insects are contently feeding on a medley of plants and are much healthier for a reptile as a result.
leedragon
Chameleon Enthusiast
true. Just checking the options.
I would still gutload the crickets. Just my opinion. If you feed them greens and veggies and a bit of fruit it shouldn't cause any problems.
Regarding the fat soluble vitamins...D3 and vitamin A shouldn't be toxic as long as the supplements are done properly. I've never investigated E or K but I imagine it's the same for them. D3 produced from UVB won't be overdone as long as the chameleon can move in and out if it at will so as long as you don't overdo the supplements it shouldn't build up. Vitamin A in greens and veggies is from beta carotene sources which don't build up so you just have to watch what you provide through the supplements. If, however you use a commercial feed...I can only say look at what's in it and figure it out from there.
