Vets? Vet-like people - what is this in throat?

lele

lele

Avid Member
Hi all,

I posted a bit about this the other day but got a better pic and now feel this is more serious. I've looked down Cy's throat plenty of times and always saw a big cavern but lately I see this:
4414521590_647e506ab6_b.jpg


He has always done strange things after eating and drinking like lie on his back in branch crotches, but is having more trouble now. I have always chalked things up to his neurological issues but he seems to be having swallowing and digestions issues.

We went tot he vet on Thursday and although this vet sees exotics he said this did not look unusual. He said he thought his tongue was a little swollen and he is on Baytril for a while. I'm not convinced that this "thing" is normal.

So I would REALLY like someone to tell me what they think this is. It is in the back of his throat beyond tongue. he ate a hornworm ( little over an inch or so) yesterday but not sure if it will come back up today.

btw, the stringiness is not a URI or anything, just normal.

Thanks in advance!
lele & Cyrus
 
Does he have gullar edema? maybe there is some swelling around the throat pushing his normal 'parts' up like you see? He might be stressed by you opening his mouth and pushing his tongue parts up to stop anything from going down the hatch?

You said he lays on his back?
 
summoner12 said:
Does he have gullar edema? maybe there is some swelling around the throat pushing his normal 'parts' up like you see? He might be stressed by you opening his mouth and pushing his tongue parts up to stop anything from going down the hatch?

You said he lays on his back?
Click to expand...

Nope, no edema. He has some neurological problems. A "mass" in his head on right side diagnosed about 3 years ago. It is not actually diagnosed b/c we don't know what it is, but showed up on x-rays after I noticed some unusual symptoms. He was given a round on antibiotics in case of infection, then steroids for inflammation. My vet (I lived elsewhere at that time) consulted with a cham vet in FL while this was going on. Short of exploratory surgery or an MRI there was no way of getting at. He tried to gain access through mouth for a biopsy but once under he realized it was too far back and inaccessible.

Cyrus leans and tips to the right and falls. I have accommodated his cage and care over the years. Once of the things he has always done is to occasionally sleep and rest on his back or side (he used to sleep curled up in his plant pots :eek:. He gets handled a lot (and does not mind, but I respect the times he does) and every now and again he will get food stuck in his throat (like too large a hornworm) that I have had to "rescue" and that is why I give him much smaller ones now. It may look like I am really squeezing him in the pic, but he actually open his mouth rather readily for me and that is more positioning since he curves to the right and wanted a straight on shot.

So there is his story in a nutshell. At first glance I thought he had a superworm stuck due to the segments but then realized it is a part of him, just cannot figure out what :confused: and wondered if anyone else can see this in their cham.

thanks
 
I can't provide a comparison pic lele, but wonder if his cranial mass is pushing something else out of alignment making it look more prominent? The good thing is, nothing looks inflamed or diseased. Might just be another thing that makes Cyrus the unique guy he is.

I still LOVE the pics of him lying on his back!
 
Hey you! :)

It seems like a new thing and since he is having trouble it has me concerned. He just does not seem well. The antibiotics are not doing anything noticeable. His appetite is nil and his color is off. Sleeping during the day a bit, too. I have always known that due to his trouble he may not live as long (he was 4 in Dec.) but I am just not prepared for that. his fat pads on casque are shrinking and the one on his right (bad) side is oddly wrinkled. I wish I still lived near my old vet. I might make the trip back across the state for a digital x-ray, but then again, not too sure about anesthesia being a good idea.

My silkies are not growing fast enough (UGH) so think of ordering some to be sent overnight (double ugh!) to get some food I know he will eat. If he does not eat these then I know he is in serious trouble :( Dealing with cat on insulin (as of yesterday), too. Lots of fun here :)

Hope you and yours are doing well!

lele
 
Have you considered either one of these? At this point I don't see the harm. Or maybe some Pedilyte?


Reptaid™ is designed to help your reptile overcome viral, bacterial and microscopic infections without the complications one would get from more traditional treatments. It is well known in the reptile world that traditional medications can have limited success and debilitating side effects. While undergoing traditional treatments for parasitic infections, reptiles can experience loss of appetite, lethargy, hydration issues, even organ damage. Reptaid™ is a blend of herbs that is gentle to the system, and is found to be beneficial to the health and well being of reptiles.*

Why do reptiles need probiotics or DFMs?
Antibiotics have been a valuable tool against certain diseases. Unfortunately, some pathogens, such as Salmonella, are resistant to their capabilities to prevent or cure disease. Because of the indiscriminate nature of some antibiotics they will destroy both "bad" and "good" bacteria. Since the bacteria "war" is a numbers game, it is important that the "good" bacteria always outnumber the "bad" bacteria.

Feeding a probiotic or DFM specially formulated for reptiles can help insure this replenishing of "good" bacteria. Since all animals can experience stress and pathogens take advantage of stressful situations it is crucial that there are fewer numbers of these potential pathogens in the gut of the animal.
 
Hi Donna,

thanks. It is standard for me to give Repta-Aid when my animals are in trouble with their health so I did not even think to mention it. I used to be a regular here and just don't post much anymore. That said, thanks for reminding me to put Pedialyte on my shopping list! ;)

I am not so keen on the antibiotics and may stop at the 7 or 10 day mark regardless of what my vet says. Will have to discuss and see how Cyrus is doing. He has readily taken two doses of Repta-Aid today. It contains more than just herbs including egg, vitamins and a variety of supplements to help with dehydration and increase caloric intake. I have a beardie with "issues" so I have a ready supply of this and fortunately everyone likes the taste! ;)

thanks again,
lele and gang.
 
draetish said:
That would be wise regarding the antibiotics, their metabolism is very slow so maybe you could do those every other day. Dave Weldon posted the below on another thread and after researching it, I ordered some just to have on hand, check it out.

Probiotics Example: NutriBAC df

http://www.reptileuv.com/what-are-probiotics.php
Click to expand...

I am not sure how I feel about these. From what I can find NutriBac seems to refer to salmonella in herbivores (iguanas mentioned a lot) and I can find nothing about chameleons or other insectivores/carnivores. Could you please post what research you did? I see no citation on the website you linked. I did however find this http://www.anapsid.org/iguana/probiotics.html from a very reputable site. Yes, the article is a bit out of date but interesting nonetheless. I know many people here have "sworn" by them but personally I would like to see some actual research as both of my vets have said they are useless for reptiles. Out of owkr for a month I don't want to spend $$ on something that may not hurt him, but may not help either.

As I certainly agree that antibiotics take their toll I am hesitant to add another element. I am still dusting his food and the Repta-Aid should help as well.

thanks for your help,
lele
 
I am not a vet, but the area looks like the back/bottom of his throat. I think you mentioned when he would open his mouth before, that it would be a big gaping hole. When they gape on their own, they also stretch out their beards. Maybe since you are forcing his mouth open, he is not stretching his beard out and that's why you're seeing his throat; especially ince you're shining a light/flash in there? It definitely doesn't look like a tumor or growth, it looks like throat tissue, to my un-educated eye.

I can see sort of the same structure in this guy's mouth:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69332974@N00/3567178006

Maybe get a second opinion, vet-wise?
 
unknown said:
I am not a vet, but the area looks like the back/bottom of his throat. I think you mentioned when he would open his mouth before, that it would be a big gaping hole. When they gape on their own, they also stretch out their beards. Maybe since you are forcing his mouth open, he is not stretching his beard out and that's why you're seeing his throat; especially ince you're shining a light/flash in there? It definitely doesn't look like a tumor or growth, it looks like throat tissue, to my un-educated eye.

I can see sort of the same structure in this guy's mouth:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69332974@N00/3567178006

Maybe get a second opinion, vet-wise?
Click to expand...
hmmm...well first - why are you "unknown? :confused:

they don't have "beards that they stretch out - maybe you are on a the wrong forum? I have had this chameleon for 4 years and have looked down his throat numerous times both gaping and by coaxing. As I said before I am not "forcing" it open I am gently holding the sides. I am also not shining a light, this is daylight.

If you read the post I did mention my vet visit.
 
thanks and update from vet...

kinyonga said:
draetish...copying word for word from another's work is plagerism....you are supposed to give the link and put quotation marks around what you took from the site at least...
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn Utopia on the Web/Nutribac information.htm
Click to expand...

thanks for that link, k. As I mentioned it does seem to be rather specific to salmonella. Think I will take a pass for now.

Cy's fecal was clean - mixed feelings. Glad, but not surprised considering feeders he gets (all hand reared and/or non-parasite carrying); sort of wish they found something because it would explain his trouble (not the throat thing, overall problems). Don't get me wrong - I am GLAD he is not carrying a parasite load! But we all know that "glad they didn't find anything but wish they did because it would explain things" feeling.

Vet is upping Baytril to 2x/day for 5 days. He ate 2 silkies today dusted with Herptivite Multi and a bit of Repta-Aid "water." Will see how he fares. Bloodwork is in order for Monday if no improvement.

Keeping my fingers crossed. This guy has made it thru what many others would not have. He is a very special guy and will tell the chameleon community a lot someday. I just hope it is no time soon...
4428641538_c3d37013cc_o.jpg
 
Thanks :)

He's a Nosy Be panther. He has a neurological problem (unexplained "mass" in his head) that we have dealt with quite well for a few years and he has been quite stable. I don't know if his current issues are related or not. It is the first time, in a long time, that I have really worried about him. I have always just adjusted to his "issues" and he has always managed to come around. I don't think I have ever been quite so "intimate" with one of my reptiles (though my beardie is a close second!). He has traveled with me simply because he cannot be left in someone else's care because he falls and gets stuck, or can't turn to his left so falls backwards in order to get away from his dripper. Stuff just his mom knows about ;)

I remember when I was looking to get my first cham back in 2002(?) and lurking on Kingsnake Cham Forums. There was a woman caring for a very special veiled named Zoe (a male). Her name was Kim (IceQueen - Carlton and kinyonga might remember her) and she had a post "Is it possible to be in love with a chameleon?" She then went on to tell her story. I was so moved and followed her story right thru Zoe's demise. I still get teary eyed. Cyrus is not my first but I know just how Kim felt...

lele
 
Okay...I just know you teared up and had to drop out of that post...

The easy ones are easy...it's the difficult ones we invest our heart and soul into.

I hope you are collecting your posts here about your beautiful baby. I think there will come a time when you want to collect all of them together to be an enlightening and supporting document for others who assist chameleons with difficulties.
 
lele said:
hmmm...well first - why are you "unknown? :confused:

they don't have "beards that they stretch out - maybe you are on a the wrong forum? I have had this chameleon for 4 years and have looked down his throat numerous times both gaping and by coaxing. As I said before I am not "forcing" it open I am gently holding the sides. I am also not shining a light, this is daylight.

If you read the post I did mention my vet visit.
Click to expand...



:confused:

When they puff up and their chins puff out? My vet called it a beard...

I saw that you took your cham to the vet, but didn't read that you got a second opinion, thats why i suggested. I'm not criticizing...

Anyway, Good luck with figuring this out!
 
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