This process was started before the mess began. So no, I did not send money to Tanzania during these problems. Like I said before, these things take TIME. also, I have to make money to repay those I owe, don't I?
Very Excited!
- Thread starter Justyn
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Vibrant Chameleons
Avid Member
I understand everyone wants to make some money while doing something they truly love as I'd do the same. What I have a problem with is trying to limit the number of species that you let out into North America. Wouldn't you rather help your fellow North American hobbiest rather then help foreign countries? It just doesn't make sense other then to make it benefit you by keeping the price HIGH when you sell here. The idea to import rare chameleons should be to SAVE the species and not hord or keep them away from people to benefit yourself.
Good luck
Good luck
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angus310
New Member
I read that entire post and it seems obvious that he is a scammer. Goes on every forum and hopes no one has heard to make more money and still pay no one back.
The question I had reading those pages if he was too busy to ship things out, how did he have enough time to feed and properly care for the animals that he had in. It just didn't make sense and why people dealt with this for so long makes no sense.
I hope he is kicked out of our forum and his IP is rejected to ever register an account again.
To say, that he had no intent to list for sale on here is BS. Look at his history, goes on sites or talks to people in person and just brings up how he is getting this great specimen, then waits for them to offer to buy. So, yes he did not list them for sale here but by bringing them up he knew that this community would love to get their hands on one. Thus, any post is the same thing as a listing. Please post pics, that seems to be the one thing you have been unable to do in the past. If you do, then more people will see you as someone who may deserve a second chance (not me).
The question I had reading those pages if he was too busy to ship things out, how did he have enough time to feed and properly care for the animals that he had in. It just didn't make sense and why people dealt with this for so long makes no sense.
I hope he is kicked out of our forum and his IP is rejected to ever register an account again.
To say, that he had no intent to list for sale on here is BS. Look at his history, goes on sites or talks to people in person and just brings up how he is getting this great specimen, then waits for them to offer to buy. So, yes he did not list them for sale here but by bringing them up he knew that this community would love to get their hands on one. Thus, any post is the same thing as a listing. Please post pics, that seems to be the one thing you have been unable to do in the past. If you do, then more people will see you as someone who may deserve a second chance (not me).
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Chameleons Northwest
Avid Member
Justin, this may be your whole problem (if, indeed, you have a problem). I'm not experienced enough in chameleon matters to be a judge of your import situation. But your last comment got my attention.
If one runs a business on credit, or with the hope of paying for today's purchases with future profits, one places one's suppliers, inventory, and clients all at risk. One also places one's self under an immense amount of pressure, causing one to potentially make some questionable decisions.
My husband and I own and run several businesses, in which we pay as we go. We may not know much about the chameleon import or breeding business, but we do know a little about small business matters in general. We started off slow. What profits we made were almost entirely re-invested in the businesses to keep them healthy. There is also a "floor" or cushion of finances in case of emergencies. This was all done by starting out small, and growing slowly.
To start out large and grow quickly one needs venture capital, and a source of monied people willing to invest in the operation and keep it affloat until the profits come in. It's not a good idea to treat one's suppliers, or clients, as though they were investors (willing to wait to be paid by future profits).
Perhaps time and money pressures can cause even the best person to make some unfortunate choices. I say this in humility, knowing it could happen to anyone.
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I did not have time. I had many shipments come in at once and I lost a lot of animals due to neglect. I'm not happy about it, but ti is the truth. I had too many eggs in one basket.
Why should I be kick off? I have done nothing wrong on here. I've likely kept chameleons longer then most on here. I came on here because I liked the forum. I came under the same name, the exact same name posted on the BOI. I did not come here to sell them as most of the specimens already have have interested buyers.
Why in the world do you ahev the need to judge me and my business. It has nothing to do with this forum.
Why should I be kick off? I have done nothing wrong on here. I've likely kept chameleons longer then most on here. I came on here because I liked the forum. I came under the same name, the exact same name posted on the BOI. I did not come here to sell them as most of the specimens already have have interested buyers.
Why in the world do you ahev the need to judge me and my business. It has nothing to do with this forum.
angus310
New Member
I also own my own business and understand where gesang is coming from. Justyn also owns a pond installation company which may have gotten him started. Quick growth is exciting but extremely dangerous. He may have had the money initially for a few shipments then ordered way too many.
I wish him luck but I think he needs to take profits from his photography, landscaping, pond designing and article writing and pay the people first before he buys any more shipments.
Again my 3 biggest concerns are:
1. THE HEALTH OF THE ANIMALS UNDER HIS CARE. If you can't afford to pay people, how can you afford to ensure their health and welfare once received? No time to ship = no time to take care of the animals.
2. THE SAFETY OF THIS FORUM'S MEMBERS. By using future profits to pay past debts, this whole cycle will never end! Right now I am overpaying my debts (paying invoices that are not due for 6 months) and will see that profit later. Some more people will inevitably be harmed by his mismanagement and I don't want to see that.
3. CONDUCTING BUSINESS IN THIS MANNER HURTS OTHERS IN SIMILAR BUSINESSES. It is true that it can help some dealers b/c they are trustworthy and people will run from this guy. This will lead to more people being screwed over, lots of dead animals (b/c noone will want to buy from him) and harm to such great people as FLCHAMS, PAMSCHAMS, SCREAMELEONS, and the Kammers. Those reluctant to buy from internet shops and breeders will point to this as further validation for their unwarranted skepticism of realiable breeders. I understand that those listed aren't dealers but breeders; however, it hurts every one overrall.
Be truthful when things happen and more people would give you the benefit of the doubt. I believe it is the responsibility of forum members to look out for each other. I apologize if you disagree.
I wish him luck but I think he needs to take profits from his photography, landscaping, pond designing and article writing and pay the people first before he buys any more shipments.
Again my 3 biggest concerns are:
1. THE HEALTH OF THE ANIMALS UNDER HIS CARE. If you can't afford to pay people, how can you afford to ensure their health and welfare once received? No time to ship = no time to take care of the animals.
2. THE SAFETY OF THIS FORUM'S MEMBERS. By using future profits to pay past debts, this whole cycle will never end! Right now I am overpaying my debts (paying invoices that are not due for 6 months) and will see that profit later. Some more people will inevitably be harmed by his mismanagement and I don't want to see that.
3. CONDUCTING BUSINESS IN THIS MANNER HURTS OTHERS IN SIMILAR BUSINESSES. It is true that it can help some dealers b/c they are trustworthy and people will run from this guy. This will lead to more people being screwed over, lots of dead animals (b/c noone will want to buy from him) and harm to such great people as FLCHAMS, PAMSCHAMS, SCREAMELEONS, and the Kammers. Those reluctant to buy from internet shops and breeders will point to this as further validation for their unwarranted skepticism of realiable breeders. I understand that those listed aren't dealers but breeders; however, it hurts every one overrall.
Be truthful when things happen and more people would give you the benefit of the doubt. I believe it is the responsibility of forum members to look out for each other. I apologize if you disagree.
The problem was I got low on cash this year and had too much going on to fix any of the mistakes I made. I understand business and I have supported myself since I was 15. I made a mistake and took preorders on specimens with deposits. When I was unable to send them, I already sent the money to my exporters. It was my mistake.
angus310
New Member
Thanks for your honesty! I do mean that sincerely. I wish you the best of luck. You can only help reclaim the name you had by other people's experiences.
I just don't think it would be fair to not shed light on the past if someone was interested in buying from you. Several positive transactions here will lend to your credibility. I will wait for others to take that chance.
I stated with animals prior to the ponds, my pond business took a hue hit this year with non-stop rains throughout early thsi year. When it cleared up I was backed up on contracts, I had animals coming in, and animals that needed to be sent out. Things just tumbled from there into a giant problem.
As for buying shipments, many of these are owed to me from my exporters. They had already been paid long ago. Getting in the shipments lets me free up money that was held up before these events occured.
As for the health, feel free to conact any recent references. I sent top notch animals and will send no less. I have time to ship animals now, I just don't have them.
I have always been truthful with the issues that arose. I will continue to do so, both the good and the bad.
As for buying shipments, many of these are owed to me from my exporters. They had already been paid long ago. Getting in the shipments lets me free up money that was held up before these events occured.
As for the health, feel free to conact any recent references. I sent top notch animals and will send no less. I have time to ship animals now, I just don't have them.
I have always been truthful with the issues that arose. I will continue to do so, both the good and the bad.
I am very open about issues I had with animals eariler this year. I've sent many animals prior to being paid for these the past few months to show that I do not intend to harm anyone.
PEPPERQUILL1
New Member
I don't think any of my Tanzania exporters would like to hear that from you.MOST are not collected illigally or every one would be in violation of Tanzanian law.Chris is right Tanzania issues low quota for R.Brevicadatus or any other leaf chameleon the only one that can be exported in large numbers is R.Kerstenii which are very hard to find in Tanzania, so I guess every one is in violation.Clearly you don't really know what your talking about and don't import much.Im glad to see that you will report what you think shouldn't come in and let the rest go.I'd like to see permits saying you can take what you want out of a preserve.
Yes, Traffic reported on this issue a few years ago and it continues until this day. I'll see if I can find a digital copy. MOST are collected illegally, many of the trappers don't even have a trappers permit. As you may know, Joe B. has been very vocal of this in Tanzania, as he is one of the few exporters in Tanzania that follows the rules.
Also, just because EVERYONE is doing something illegal does not make it right. It is only making our hobby look bad by not following the rules of the land. People wonder why USFWS looks down on importing reptiles. Shouldn't we be striving for excellence in our trade/hobby?
So, if you or anyone else imports R. brevicadatus under a different name, face it, you're a smuggler, like it or not. I'm not worried about the well being of the wild populations of this species due to the trade, but I do think as importers we should strive to follow the rules and regulations to a "T" including listing the correct species on the permits. That's not to say importers don't end up with animals they may not have "ordered," like the lone R. viridis, but that doesn't make it legal. I wouldn't say Nick "smuggled" it in, though. What I am talkng about is blatant ignorance or disregard for the law. Just because it's done often, or seems to be the way it's done, doesn't make it right. As for picking and choosing what I "report," I believe I covered that already: my job isn't to watch all shipments and pick through paperwork--there are people who take care of that. On the other hand, if I see something that is an obvious and blatant disregard for the wildlife, and I can do something about it, I will. Wouldn't you?
Also, just because EVERYONE is doing something illegal does not make it right. It is only making our hobby look bad by not following the rules of the land. People wonder why USFWS looks down on importing reptiles. Shouldn't we be striving for excellence in our trade/hobby?
So, if you or anyone else imports R. brevicadatus under a different name, face it, you're a smuggler, like it or not. I'm not worried about the well being of the wild populations of this species due to the trade, but I do think as importers we should strive to follow the rules and regulations to a "T" including listing the correct species on the permits. That's not to say importers don't end up with animals they may not have "ordered," like the lone R. viridis, but that doesn't make it legal. I wouldn't say Nick "smuggled" it in, though. What I am talkng about is blatant ignorance or disregard for the law. Just because it's done often, or seems to be the way it's done, doesn't make it right. As for picking and choosing what I "report," I believe I covered that already: my job isn't to watch all shipments and pick through paperwork--there are people who take care of that. On the other hand, if I see something that is an obvious and blatant disregard for the wildlife, and I can do something about it, I will. Wouldn't you?
PEPPERQUILL1
New Member
so howd they come in?
EricandCandace
New Member
Justyn ... I have never met you nor have I had any business dealings with you ... As a matter of fact I would like to welcome you to the forums...
On an aside ... I read over 100 pages of that thread ( what an incredible waste of my time) ... Did any of that ever come to a resolution where the paying customers who gave you their money get it back?
Still waiting....
While you're waiting for a reply from Justyn, the people he owes, myself included, are still waiting for the promised refunds. Since March he's had the money, and he's been promising to make good on it since May. Not holding too much hope anymore.
While you're waiting for a reply from Justyn, the people he owes, myself included, are still waiting for the promised refunds. Since March he's had the money, and he's been promising to make good on it since May. Not holding too much hope anymore.
EricandCandace
New Member
Sorry to hear that .... It is a sad sad thing to think about people losing money that is owed them .......
think about people losing money....
Remember that if you're tempted by the animals Justyn mentions. While he's trolling for orders on this forum, he's ignoring the $660 he took from me, the $1400 from another person in Virginia, the over $1000 from a person in Texas, the money from a guy in Florida for turtles, all for animals he said he would receive soon, or that he said he already had.
Andy
Remember that if you're tempted by the animals Justyn mentions. While he's trolling for orders on this forum, he's ignoring the $660 he took from me, the $1400 from another person in Virginia, the over $1000 from a person in Texas, the money from a guy in Florida for turtles, all for animals he said he would receive soon, or that he said he already had.
Andy
HiroProtagonist
New Member
Hmmm...a blatant disregard for wildlife...you mean like going out onto a nature reserve and "raping" (as you say) these animals of their natural habitat? EVERYONE who's in bed with a politician or gets in good with some local authority (who couldn't care less about some obscure species of chameleon) says "follow the law follow the law" but if it were someone else hoarding the permits you'd be saying "What about me what about me?"
Legal and ethical are two completely different things. Many politicians are corrupt...so you were able to buy one off...congratulations. Now get over yourself.
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