Veiled Chamelons and Low Temperatures

[Carlton]

I wouldn't ever attempt it without it getting direct sunlight all day. Do you think the heat from full sun would have given you a different outcome?

The only way to answer some of your questions would be to do some experiments right where you put the cage with all the shrub cover and shade already established. So much of this is only speculation on our parts. You'd have to follow a cham all its life to determine if the overall weather in your area had a detrimental effect. Any short term temp shift might be survivable if the cham was healthy with the fully diverse diet a wild cham has, but repreated events outside their tolerance level might shorten a life, influence ability to breed, have a higher incidence of disease (URI etc), or cause higher rate of mortality in a group of chams.

We know a wild ranging cham has lots of choices for retreats in its territory. We know a caged cham doesn't. You can look at weather conditions in Yemen but not necessarily know the exact conditions in a particular wild cham's territory at any one time. A coastal river valley full of shrubby habitat that is subject to ocean breeze, fog, daily thermals, seasonal sun angle and day length, etc. may be very different than a weather recording station (most often placed in the open on a building).

 

[Jakedn]

The only way to answer some of your questions would be to do some experiments right where you put the cage with all the shrub cover and shade already established. So much of this is only speculation on our parts. You'd have to follow a cham all its life to determine if the overall weather in your area had a detrimental effect. Any short term temp shift might be survivable if the cham was healthy with the fully diverse diet a wild cham has, but repreated events outside their tolerance level might shorten a life, influence ability to breed, have a higher incidence of disease (URI etc), or cause higher rate of mortality in a group of chams.

We know a wild ranging cham has lots of choices for retreats in its territory. We know a caged cham doesn't. You can look at weather conditions in Yemen but not necessarily know the exact conditions in a particular wild cham's territory at any one time. A coastal river valley full of shrubby habitat that is subject to ocean breeze, fog, daily thermals, seasonal sun angle and day length, etc. may be very different than a weather recording station (most often placed in the open on a building).

You make a very good point. I'm sure it's safe to assume that a veiled chameleon in yemen doesn't subject itself to temps as high as 110 and would probably be able to find a place that has temps in the 90-100 range during such a hot day.

I guess your right that I wouldn't really ever be able to find out unless I experimented with it myself.

I suppose I will keep researching and maybe experiment with temperatures when a chameleon is not involved, just to see what the real highs and lows would be like in an enclosure outside and see if a good temp range would be able to be provided year round.

Thanks for the input everybody.

 

[Duke]

This is a response to an old post but I would love to raise this again. It seems that there was a discussion on Veileds being outside when the ambient temp dips into the high 40s at night. My chams have always done better outside and I want to get them out there, but it just isn't consistently in the 50s at night yet (I live in America's freezer). The discussion seemed to conclude that members were going to observe their chams outside during temp ranges high 40's night-60's in the day, temps that would seem to mimic their natural winter temps. I would love to hear the results or any other input. I want to get them outside as it has always seemed to be so good for their health before, likely from the sun, but don't want to rush things if the adverse effect (if any) of nights at 48 F would outweigh that benefit.

 

[italian chameleon]

This is a response to an old post but I would love to raise this again. It seems that there was a discussion on Veileds being outside when the ambient temp dips into the high 40s at night. My chams have always done better outside and I want to get them out there, but it just isn't consistently in the 50s at night yet (I live in America's freezer). The discussion seemed to conclude that members were going to observe their chams outside during temp ranges high 40's night-60's in the day, temps that would seem to mimic their natural winter temps. I would love to hear the results or any other input. I want to get them outside as it has always seemed to be so good for their health before, likely from the sun, but don't want to rush things if the adverse effect (if any) of nights at 48 F would outweigh that benefit.

ok its an old thread but I found it very interesting and wanted to know more about it
any news? bad/good experiences?

 

[nerb]

my experience

I live in socal and keep my veiled cham (wonky) outside sprint through fall, he loves it. I keep a basking light on for the cloudy/cool days and provide plenty of water. The top of the enclosure is in direct sun all day and the bottom half is shady. He cruises up and down his cage constantly. He's always brighter colors and more active than he is inside. Also I should note that my apartment doesn't have heat so it can get in the 50s at night inside anyway.
I'm curious if anyone has seen any negative effects of cold temps at night (30s-40s). I can tell you that wonky has shown no negative effects in 50s temps but I'd like to keep him outside year round..

 

[fluxlizard]

Mine do OK down to about 40 at night.

 

[Decadancin]

This is going to vary, not only by species, but also by individual. The healthier the animal, the more likely it can stand colder temps.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I lived about 100 to 200 miles north of the Veiled's northern range for 11 years. Three years were spent in Jeddah, on the Red Sea coast, and eight years in Riyadh.

Here is a link to a city that is in the northern fringes of a Veiled's range.

http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/SA/Abha.html

Here is a YouTube video of a wild veiled in Yemen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoBLF1FKB9w

You can see how dusty and arid the area is. Rainfall is very rare, usually once a year in November. I don't remember dew, but I didn't camp in the areas that Veileds live. One winter I did camp on the Hejaz Railway which is north of Jeddah and further inland. I never noticed any dew, and we slept outside on cots with no tents. The veileds territory goes inland a bit as far as I can tell.

One thing to keep in mind is that the strength of the sun in the tropics makes even my southern Texan sun feel watery and weak. I don't know how to describe it, but I've lived in the tropics for over 20 years and I still find sunlight here on the mainland really weak and watery even in the peak of summer. Todd of Light Your Reptiles pointed out that a montane species would be exposed to even more UVB because of the altitude.

The coastal plains of southern Saudi Arabia and Yemen would be incredibly humid but have very little rainfall. Once up over the escarpment, it is pretty much desert. The temps at night on the coastal plain would drop very, very little because the Red Sea is such a hot sea. (The Red Sea is an extension of the Great Rift Valley, and there is a lot of volcanic activity under it keeping it warm.) When I lived in Jeddah on the coast of the Red Sea, I would leave my air conditioned house and step outside and have condensation on my bare skin, but temps rarely went over 100 with torrential rainfall one or two days a year in November.

It is an incredibly harsh environment.

 

[Carlton]

The coastal plains of southern Saudi Arabia and Yemen would be incredibly humid but have very little rainfall. Once up over the escarpment, it is pretty much desert. The temps at night on the coastal plain would drop very, very little because the Red Sea is such a hot sea. (The Red Sea is an extension of the Great Rift Valley, and there is a lot of volcanic activity under it keeping it warm.) When I lived in Jeddah on the coast of the Red Sea, I would leave my air conditioned house and step outside and have condensation on my bare skin, but temps rarely went over 100 with torrential rainfall one or two days a year in November.

It is an incredibly harsh environment.

So, I would guess that the "condensation" you felt on your skin would also form dew and higher humidity in specific parts of the cham's habitat. Even though the area seems quite harsh and dry, we know that wildlife must be finely tuned to seek out micro-climates in order to survive. Warmer seashores are very humid at night, so if the Red Sea is warm and arid land cools rapidly at night because there's no cloud cover, it can form dense local fogs that burn off each morning. That's one reason the native vegetation exists where it does...enough water to support the plants. And, don't forget that living vegetation contributes to its own immediate conditions...dense foliage adds moisture to the air through transpiration and many arid region plants transpire more at night to conserve moisture. I bet each wild cham that survives long enough to breed knows exactly where to find humid retreats and places where that dew tends to collect enough for drinking. We wonder why the veiled has such a large casque? One old theory is that it helps gather moisture droplets from dense foliage as the cham climbs through it and funnels the moisture down its face.

We don't know what the actual survival rate for any clutch of veiled eggs is in the wild. They lay quite a few eggs per clutch, and most if not all adults breed each year, but only two out of each clutch need to survive to keep the population stable. There are many hatchlings that won't make it because they get eaten, die from accident, don't learn to find the best habitats, or can't compete for them.

It's hard to compare the success of a few captive chams kept out in "harsh" conditions to an entire wild population of chams scattered all through a region with a lot of local variation.