Veiled Chameleon Help (2 vet visits worth of information)

[Extensionofgreen]

Ditch the Flukers cubes and utilize fresh produce and/or a suitable gutload.
He may have aspirated before or during the force feeding, but all we can do is speculate.

Yes, get a fecal, yes continue with antibiotics and fluids, have blood work done (vitamin A levels should be part of the analysis ), and continue doing your best. It appears you are doing very well by this little chameleon and I hope your outcome is a positive one.

 

[alphakenc]

I will say that for my exotic vet, he has little experience with chameleons unfortunately. His big specialty was amphibians and snakes at the zoo plus the experience he has picked up with consumer reptiles he has treated...which is mostly geckos in my area. I think Horatio is the first chameleon he has treated.

And most importantly Get a new vet with lots chameleon experience!!!

 

[dlaunde]

Ditch the Flukers cubes and utilize fresh produce and/or a suitable gutload.
He may have aspirated before or during the force feeding, but all we can do is speculate.

Yes, get a fecal, yes continue with antibiotics and fluids, have blood work done (vitamin A levels should be part of the analysis ), and continue doing your best. It appears you are doing very well by this little chameleon and I hope your outcome is a positive one.

Will do on the tests. We are also Googling more Chameleon specific vets but I don't live in a big city (Toledo, OH) so the first vet is the most renowned we have but obviously not specific on chameleon knowledge. I know he will order/do what we ask though.

Is there a technique I can use to minimize the risk of aspiration or to make the force feeding easier on Horatio?

 

[Alexander1]

Yes, you have to administer the food past his wind pipe or you might risk getting fluid into his lungs and possibly killing him.

 

[dlaunde]

He seems to have taken a turn for the worse overnight. While he did excrete bright white urate, he didn't have enough strength to even move into his basking spot this morning so when the misters came on he was cold and wet. I took him out, held him, force fed a little water, put him back in in his basking spot but he has absolutely no grip strength and fell over twice. I have him propped up against some vines but I just noticed his eyes keep rolling backwards towards his body and twitching (like a small seizure). I'm going to make him comfortable and be around all day but I don't think he's going to make it another night.

Now the decision is do I just make him comfortable here and let nature take its course. Or do I take him in to be put down quickly?

 

[jannb]

Where do you live? I might be able to recommend a good vet with chameleon experience.

 

[dlaunde]

Where do you live? I might be able to recommend a good vet with chameleon experience.

Toledo, Ohio

This is where we originally took him:
http://www.birdandexotics.com/

 

[jannb]

Toledo, Ohio area

Bird and Exotic Pet Wellness Center
5166 Monroe St.
419-843-3137

http://www.birdexoticpetvets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=93

One of our members here runs a rescue near Toledo and that's the same vet that she uses. Would you like to take him to her? I can put you in touch with her and she will take him in. She knows allot about chameleons and might be able to save him. I've see her pull some really rough looking ones through.

 

[dlaunde]

Toledo, Ohio area

Bird and Exotic Pet Wellness Center
5166 Monroe St.
419-843-3137

http://www.birdexoticpetvets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=93

One of our members here runs a rescue near Toledo and that's the same vet that she uses. Would you like to take him to her? I can put you in touch with her and she will take him in. She knows allot about chameleons and might be able to save him. I've see her pull some really rough looking ones through.

I appreciate it but Horatio has passed. My fiancee and I took him out to lay with us and he stopped breathing peacefully on his own.

Going forward with my reptiles (we do plan on getting another chameleon but I will be doing things better/differently this time), I am going to do routine wellness checks.

And the vet you posted is the one we had used on Wednesday.

Thanks all

 

[Lizzie The Chameleon]

i'm sorry for your loss.

 

[jannb]

I am very sorry that he passed.

Before you put another animals in his enclosure I recommend a good cleaning with 60 volum Peroxide (the kind you buy at a beauty supply store such as Sally's) just in case what he had was contagious. An autopsy might tell you what happen to him.
Again my condolences.

 

[dlaunde]

I am very sorry that he passed.

Before you put another animals in his enclosure I recommend a good cleaning with 60 volum Peroxide (the kind you buy at a beauty supply store such as Sally's) just in case what he had was contagious. An autopsy might tell you what happen to him.
Again my condolences.

Thank you.

Honestly, from everyone on here giving advice and looking back on it, I would suspect maybe an intestinal blockage. His progressing symptoms fit what would happen in a human and one of the fake vines has small leaves that if he shot a cricket just right might have become dislodged and ingested. My fault is not coming here first so I was prepared going to the vet then I may have thought to ask for an X-Ray right off the bat.

When the time is right I am going to rebuild the enclosure...do it better. Only big leaves, switch to fluorescent hood with 5.0 and 2.0 bulbs + heat lamp, gut load crickets.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Virgil1972]

I am sorry to hear about your cham. I would get the autopsy done, and try not to let this discourage you.

 

[dlaunde]

How much is an autopsy usually?

 

[jajeanpierre]

How much is an autopsy usually?

Sorry to hear you lost your chameleon.

Necropsy costs about $100 without sending anything to pathology. Pathology will add another $200/$250. I take a look inside myself and if I don't have a pretty good idea why, I often take everything over to the vet and possibly having specimens sent to pathology. The animal needs to have been refrigerated (NOT frozen) soon after death. I have a large collection, so knowing why I lost an animal is very important for me.

I think everyone should open up their dead chameleons and start to learn about the inner workings. I take good photos that I will share with my vet or others. How the animal presents to you often has nothing to do with what is really wrong. Look at some of the suggestions you have been given, everything from parasites to MBD and intestinal blockage. I can add a few others that it could be and you would be as in the dark as you were before you posted.

The extreme small size is concerning and that really should have been investigated and dealt with long before he declined so badly.

Regardless of what many on this forum say, it's really really hard for reptile vets to diagnose ill chameleons. They tend to rule things out and then take a best guess. I've had animals that were not thriving, in fact were trying very hard to die on me that the experienced vets hadn't a clue what was wrong that I ended up saving by force feeding for four months before they decided to live. Few people would be able to keep up that kind of a regime for an animal that was failing.

Also, few people are prepared to spend a lot of money trying to try to save a chameleon that is not doing well.

Clean the cage very well and throw out anything like plants and vines/perches. I use full strength bleach as well as baking the cage in the sun.

Again, sorry for your loss.

 

[dlaunde]

Small update:

I called the emergency vet today to update them on what happened and they told me that Dr. Tim (the exotic pet vet I had first seen) does autopsies for free so he can educate himself on unique presentations to tailor his approach going forward. I have been keeping Horatio in our fridge since yesterday and am going to drop him off tomorrow for the autopsy.

I'll be devastated if it turns out to be something I could have prevented like MBD...but I also want to know so I don't ever repeat such a mistake again.

 

[jannb]

My vets are usually the same. After they have fough so hard to save them, they also want to know what was the problem. He didn't look like he had MBD. My guess would be cociddia.