UV Question

[Miss Lily]

How long is ok for a chameleon to spend outside of the cage without any UV? I ask, because Monty loves being in the conservatory in his outdoor cage (where he spends the nights as its cooler out there), but I don't have a UV tube over that cage, only a household bulb to warm the temps up first thing in the morning. During the day he is either put outside if its sunny or put back in his indoor cage if I am going to work. Some days, however, he is in and out of the garden due to temperature fluctuations, where he will spend some time indoors before I can put him back out again. How many hours is a safe minimum of UV exposure per day? Bearing in mind he is a Jackson and only has a 5.0 tube anyway.

 

[laurie]

I am not qualified to answer your question. This is something I have worried about with Lenny as he free ranges all over and isn't near his uvb bulb a good part of the day. But from all I can tell he does go to the uvb when he feels a need. Now it is possible that I just want to think he is getting all the uvb he needs, but after all this time he has shown no ill effects. I will bet he doesn't get over an hour of direct uvb, but he does have a 10.0 uvb.

Don't know if this helps. We have a lot of people who know lights well. If all else fails try sending a pm to Dave Weldon, that man knows lights.

 

[Miss Lily]

Thanks Laurie, that does help a little - at least I know I am not the only one that is bothered by this! I have a few friends on facebook who's chams like to spend time out of their vivs, so it would be great to share any info I get with them too, just to give us all peace of mind really!

Even when Monty is in his cage with the UV over, he doesn't bask a whole lot, unlike Veileds - he also wanders a lot more too and is always on the move. I understand that this is typical of Jacksons though. I guess he would nearer the top if he felt he needed to.

 

[ZuggieTheCham]

How long is ok for a chameleon to spend outside of the cage without any UV? I ask, because Monty loves being in the conservatory in his outdoor cage (where he spends the nights as its cooler out there), but I don't have a UV tube over that cage, only a household bulb to warm the temps up first thing in the morning. During the day he is either put outside if its sunny or put back in his indoor cage if I am going to work. Some days, however, he is in and out of the garden due to temperature fluctuations, where he will spend some time indoors before I can put him back out again. How many hours is a safe minimum of UV exposure per day? Bearing in mind he is a Jackson and only has a 5.0 tube anyway.

We were worried about this when we started to free range zuggie but has we got the new uv for his cage we have now just put his old one up wit a new bulb over his free range i would say just put one up on the safe side cus its not often we get good sun over here we have just build a new free range for him he is loving it check out the post

 

[Miss Lily]

Does anyone else have any input to this please?

 

[laurie]

Tiff I have a couple people I can ask. Give me a day ok?

In addition to having Kevin help here is a thread about UVB

https://www.chameleonforums.com/definitive-lighting-thread-everything-you-really-need-know-80869/

 

[summoner12]

If he is getting direct natural sunlight a couple of times a week, and is under a 10.0 a few hours a day I think he'll be fine. The natural sunlight is going to really help. It's best if you are giving him an hour or two collectively per week.

If you are using D3 supplements you should be doing OK.

 

[Miss Lily]

If he is getting direct natural sunlight a couple of times a week, and is under a 10.0 a few hours a day I think he'll be fine. The natural sunlight is going to really help. It's best if you are giving him an hour or two collectively per week.

If you are using D3 supplements you should be doing OK.

Thanks Kevin. His supplement schedule is thus: Once per week calcium and once per week Reptivite without D3, then he gets Reptivite WITH D3 every 6 weeks. I try to get him outside as often as I can - on nice days he can have anything up to 6 hours outside, but not always in direct sun. His UV is only a 5.0 as I was always told that was the correct strength for a Jackson. His UV tube is due for renewal at the end of October (I change it every 6 months) so I could change it to a 10.0 for the winter months when he doesn't get to go outside at all, and run a 5.0 from April to October when he is more likely to be able to go outside. Does that sound like a good idea?

 

[warpdrive]

Hello Tiff,

I know It's been a long time, but I'm so glad that I seem this thread.

First off, monty is a Jackson. That means he is a montane chameleon. Since most here don't read everything before posting, I would take all advice with a grain of salt due to most will think that he is just a panther.

Supplements, D3 in particular should not be used normally. they don't process such supplements as fast as a fast growing chameleon does. As such, it normally isn't needed.
Unless things have changed, most like myself don't use D3 for my Montains.

This doesn't mean that they don't need D3. But if they get some from a bulb or direct sunlight they will be fine.

I only have one Quad left, named Beast.
He gets plain calcium once a week, no D3 ever. He had never seen the sun since I've gotten him due to extreme hot temps last summer and sofar this summer...It's going to be 98f (37c for you Tiff) today, I think that is a drop to hot for a quad or Jackson.

My quad is doing fine regardless that he spends at least 2 days outside his cage without lights. He does drunk a lot once going back inside his cage, but otherwise is normal.
I have him for well over a year without issues. My vet says his blood and other things are beyond fine and i should keep up the good work with him.

Tiff, your Jackson will be quite fine with limited light. If you catch him basking by his bulb or in direct sunlight then you know the needs more D3. A new bulb at that time is in order. Until then, he will be fine and doesn't need a D3 supplement.

Now to finish cleaning two cages. I'm geting both a male and female panther in actor and hour and I'm almost done. I'm so excited that I'll finally have panthers again.

Above all remember, it doesn't always rain or there are days when the sun doesn't shined brightly every day....yet some how, in the wild they survive.

Harry

 

[Miss Lily]

Thanks Harry - its great to see you back here again!! Just as I thought I had everything just right in my head, along comes Monty to throw it all out the window, lol! He is so totally different from the Veileds that I am used to, right down to how darn small he still is at 10 months old! I am so scared that I will do something wrong that could make him ill. I wanted him since 2008 when I got my wonderful Lily, so it took a while to get him. I did state in my original post that he is a Jackson, I think most people who know me will know that since he is the only cham I have right now.

He doesn't very often bask in his cage, he will sit in the basing spot, but he only basks properly when he feels real sunlight on him. So, I am still confused with this whole D3 thing. Should I only give him that in the winter when he can't get any sun at all? He is only given Reptivite WITH D3 every 6 weeks on a couple of feeders. I have followed that schedule since I got him. He gets plain calcium once a week and Reptivite WITHOUT D3 once a week - now I am a bit worried that even this is to much?

Harry, you must post pics when those new Panthers arrive! I am going to get a Panther as my next chameleon but I just don't feel quite ready to take the plunge just yet as I more than happy with my lovely Montysaurus! It's all about him these days, and he knows it!

 

[warpdrive]

Dearest Tiff,

The reason he doesn't bask under his UV lights much is a combination of they live in the shade and your D3 suplimentation that OS not needed...even in the winter.

I personally fear that of you keep up the D3, you will find that he will at first never bask near the IV bulb, then his health will falter due to calcification of his organs.

I promise to get back to this thread later....my chams just arrived and I'm busy feeding Ann's watering them.

Look in the classifideds for ibleedcolors ad on page 3.
I got Flash and an unrelated female.

P.S. gutloading is key for a healthy Jackson.

Harry

 

[Miss Lily]

Ok, thanks Harry. I look forward to hearing what else you have to say on this. I will add though, that even the Veileds basked properly out in the sun compared to how they basked inside. Amy was never much of a asker, but she LOVED the sunshine!

 

[warpdrive]

I'm sorry Tiff, I'm not always clear...

As a Jackson, the is a slow growing chameleon.
Unlike your Veilds, that are fast growers and need extra vitamins and minerals, Jackson's don't.
The reason why they only need calcium once a week is because their metabolic rate is slower and they require less then say a panther.
It's almost better to forget dusting and deal with proper gutloading.

Vitamin and mineral dusting can sometimes be harmful. Gutloading is key to your Jackson's health.
No need for vitamins, just add berries and other fruit to your feeders. High calcium rich greens are now manditory....this will help the imbalance of calcium to Ph ratio in our feeders that we use.
I use Orange slices too, along with a solid dry gutload once a week or so.

As Jackson's, they live in the shade and don't bask much outside in the wild. What you see with most of your animals is that they are taking advantage of the moments that you give them outside and are enjoying the sun.
Your Jackson sounds normal and healthy to me. Why would he need to bask much in his cage of you give him some sunlight every now and then?
In the wild, he would only have maybe 2 or 3 days a week on avg of good quality basking sunlight. The rest would be overcast or cloudy...or rainy!!!

No need for the D3 dusting ever.

Harry

 

[Miss Lily]

I'm sorry Tiff, I'm not always clear...

As a Jackson, the is a slow growing chameleon.
Unlike your Veilds, that are fast growers and need extra vitamins and minerals, Jackson's don't.
The reason why they only need calcium once a week is because their metabolic rate is slower and they require less then say a panther.
It's almost better to forget dusting and deal with proper gutloading.

Vitamin and mineral dusting can sometimes be harmful. Gutloading is key to your Jackson's health.
No need for vitamins, just add berries and other fruit to your feeders. High calcium rich greens are now manditory....this will help the imbalance of calcium to Ph ratio in our feeders that we use.
I use Orange slices too, along with a solid dry gutload once a week or so.

As Jackson's, they live in the shade and don't bask much outside in the wild. What you see with most of your animals is that they are taking advantage of the moments that you give them outside and are enjoying the sun.
Your Jackson sounds normal and healthy to me. Why would he need to bask much in his cage of you give him some sunlight every now and then?
In the wild, he would only have maybe 2 or 3 days a week on avg of good quality basking sunlight. The rest would be overcast or cloudy...or rainy!!!

No need for the D3 dusting ever.

Harry

Well, that is very interesting! I would also like some input from Xanthoman at some point too. For gutload I use cricket gutload pellets, 'rocket' leaves, honey cheerios and apple and carrot along with a small amount of sandrachameleon's dry gutload. I always separate a few feeders to gutload before feeding them off and also provide water in a small wad of cotton wool too. I searched online and rocket leaves are right up there with collard greens (that I can't ever find over here). Overcast and cloudy is what is the norm for us this summer! On the nicer days when its not too windy (not always sunny) I try to get him outside for at least an hour or so.

Do I need to do anything different in the winter when he can't go outside? Should I switch the 5.0 UV for a 10.0 during the winter? I have always been well aware of the sensitivity of Jacksons where supplements are concerned. I think he's growing up into a happy healthy chameleon, but apart form his mother I have never seen any other Jackson adults, so I don't really know what to expect with him! One thing is certain though - he is very special and very much loved!

 

[warpdrive]

I hoped others would have replied, buy here is my two cents worth...

As for the bulb, there is no reason to not use the 5.0 even in the winter months.
Each bulb is made for different environments.
So the 10.0 is mostly for wide open skys with almost no shade...think desert.
The 5.0 bulbs are for light to med shade...think rain forest tree top.
The 2.0 bulbs are for dence cover or the floor of a thick rain forest...think of pygmys crawling around the leaf litter at the bottom of the forest (with minimal light ever reaching the floor)

So once again, just use the 5.0 bulbs, even in the winter.

I hope I helped.

Harry

 

[Miss Lily]

Thanks Harry, I'll stick with the 5.0 then. I had also hoped that others would chime in too and add their thoughts.

 

[summoner12]

I think a 5.0 with plant coverage will not be as efective as a 10.0. I don't know how your cage is planted... but if there isn't a direct 'line of sight' from the basking area to the lamp, up the lamp to the 10.0. I used to be a huge advocate of the 5.0.... I used to argue about it.... but now I just feel 'safer' with a 10.0 I know more people have meters these days. I think some might agree that when you get down to it and move that meter around the amount of UV you see in the cage isn't very much. With a brand new 5.0 it's 'good'. As some others have done in the past. I find it makes more sense on the wallet and in general to buy the 10.0, raise it higher than normal and as the bulb ages you lower the lamp closer to the basking spot. You'll get more 'life' out of the lamp. In the shade on a sunny day you see a pretty good amount of UV, even on an overcast day.

 

[warpdrive]

Hi Summoner,

Please pardon me for a moment...
In no way am I trying to argue against your advice, But I have some deep questions.

First, do you really think that the numbers of your meter will be the same at both 10 meters above sea level and at 2800 m, like where jacksons originate?
Clearly the temps at the jungle floor are drastically different, is why I ask.

Also, are you saying that most people are not giving thier chameleons enough D3 when they use just a 5.0?
Are you saying that our chameleons won't bask under a 5.0 until it has enough light needed for D3 production, and we now need a 10.0?

The reason why i ask this is because I fear that with a 10.0 bulb my pets won't have too much room to escape any exposure of UVB light. Thus my chams will then always be away from the top (and maybe the middle too) of the cage...
What I'm saying is that while the 5.0 bulbs will never be as strong as real life, its job is also NOT to over blast our pets to the point of them being forst to avoid that said bulb.
(In other words, my chams already move to the bottom to avoid heat, I don't want them to do the same due to too much UVB exposure.)

But unlike with my new panthers, I do worry about over exposure of UVB when it comes to a Jackson....

Did I miss something over the past year when it comes to lighting?

Harry