Uv and glass

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JackRipper

Avid Member
Uv and glass discussion continued from this thread.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...ic-vet-available-until-tomorrow.172247/page-3

@JackRipper again do you have any scientific proof to backup you claims about uv light?

Thank you for taking the initiative In creating this thread, is there a way that is less excruciating then copying and pasting all of our prior posts on the subject to this thread? I feel I'm beating a dead horse again but that's ok, the scientific proof is realy rather basic info not completely common sense but definitely basic. Do uv rays reflect off surfaces?
UV rays can be reflected off of open water, grass, sand, snow, concrete and painted walls. You can get a sunburn in the shade or when skiing on a cold, winter day. Coarse and soft surfaces like grass basically bounced less UV radiation than hard or smooth surfaces like concret or glass.. porous surfaces will absorb alot of the uv the same as we do, you and I and our lizards do all at different rates and some will still bounce or reflect off of us. You and your lizard and the grass and the wall all have differed rates of absorption. Glass cannot absorb uv but a very lucky few singular rays will be lucky enough to pass through the very extremely small pores in the glass. And ofcourse all glass in not created equal so percentages are based on rough averages. 0.1 to 2% or even more. To absorb uv rays is to stop or slow the ray of energy and convert it into warmth due to exciting the molecules in your skin or body and leading to a sunburn so if glass did some how absorb the rays it would explode due to the structure of glass.
 
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Lunatuck

Established Member
I think you are using the term "amplify" because you are thinking about how light introduced to closed system will increase heat. Amplification will require some sort of additional energy. A magnifying glass will focus the energy. Not amplify.

There is no system you can design to increase the energy above that of the source.

In regards to our chameleons getting UVB, this comes in in discrete units. One photon at a time. This is actually simpler then light>heat. You can play around with math once you realize light is discreet. Use flux to put it over time. Start with 100 photons total, the number will be reduced with every surface interaction. But the point is, there are fewer photons hitting the chameleon then were released from the source. Even in a perfectly designed system.

My other hobby is counting million year old photons. :p
 

JackRipper

Avid Member
I think you are using the term "amplify" because you are thinking about how light introduced to closed system will increase heat. Amplification will require some sort of additional energy. A magnifying glass will focus the energy. Not amplify.

There is no system you can design to increase the energy above that of the source.

In regards to our chameleons getting UVB, this comes in in discrete units. One photon at a time. This is actually simpler then light>heat. You can play around with math once you realize light is discreet. Use flux to put it over time. Start with 100 photons total, the number will be reduced with every surface interaction. But the point is, there are fewer photons hitting the chameleon then were released from the source. Even in a perfectly designed system.

My other hobby is counting million year old photons. :p
My sentiments exactly :) in regards to my poor choice of word- "amplification"
A t-5 HO uvb florescent bulb on a glass tank compared to a screen enclosure would give you a higher UV reading in the glass tank seeming amplified in comparison to the reading of that in the screen enclosure.

Definition of amplify
transitive verb

1: to expand (something, such as a statement) by the use of detail or illustration or by closer analysis
2a: to make larger or greater (as in amount, importance, or intensity) : INCREASE
b: to increase the strength or amount of
especially : to make louder
c: to cause (a gene or DNA sequence) to undergo amplification
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
My sentiments exactly :) in regards to my poor choice of word- "amplification"
A t-5 HO uvb florescent bulb on a glass tank compared to a screen enclosure would give you a higher UV reading in the glass tank seeming amplified in comparison to the reading of that in the screen enclosure.

Definition of amplify
transitive verb

1: to expand (something, such as a statement) by the use of detail or illustration or by closer analysis
2a: to make larger or greater (as in amount, importance, or intensity) : INCREASE
b: to increase the strength or amount of
especially : to make louder
c: to cause (a gene or DNA sequence) to undergo amplification

Could you show me a solar reading from both a screen and glass? This is counter to everything I have heard and I know you said this is basic, but it is not.
 
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JackRipper

Avid Member
Could you show me a solar reading from both a screen and glass? This is counter to everything I have heard and I know you said this is common sense, but it is not.
Run the test using the same bulb and ballast just lift it from one cage and set it on the other same size cages would be ideal but you may even get a higher reading from a smaller tank than a larger.. aim and fire..
 

Lennoncham

Chameleon Enthusiast
Run the test using the same bulb and ballast just lift it from one cage and set it on the other same size cages would be ideal but you may even get a higher reading from a smaller tank than a larger.. aim and fire..

can you post the data from your tests of this?
 

CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
It comes down to basic trigonometry and thermodynamics. The light waves are moving in seemingly 3 directions. Forward and side to side. You can measure the side to side motion and this is its frequency. Every sound and light wave has its own frequency. These frequencies can be pulsed together to create a new wave with either destructive or constructive energy. This is why putting 4 bulbs with their own reflecters is better than putting 4nin a single reflector. Some of the light waves are being canceled out basically. This has been proven. We use this in phased array ultrasonics. In a typical A-Scan setup you have only 1 angle with 1 element that sends and receives ultrasonic signals usually in the 2.5-5mghz. But with passed array were putting 16-32 elements together in one wedge and creating 34 different angles. The elements all have the same frequency but are pulsed in a way to create the constructive wave needed. I digress. In sound there's a thing called attenuation. The further it travels the weaker it gets. Which is why Mercury burns and Mars is too cold but the Earth is just fine as far as temps from that light. Out own atmosphere blocks uvc rays because it's frequency can't penetrate the atoms in our atmosphere.

Basically light and sound work the same way. They can reflect or refract. If they reflect the angle the wave hit is the same angle it bounces off and reflects enter the trigonometry. So if a UVB light is being used with a reflector most of the UVB frequency of light is being pointed down. Yes some do hit the glass but if you know anything about angles and triangles than you know if you bounce wide you're exit point is also wide. Most of the already fainting energy is being directed right into the ground. Hell a 12% Arcadia is virtually useless after 36"
 

Lunatuck

Established Member
A t-5 HO uvb florescent bulb on a glass tank compared to a screen enclosure would give you a higher UV reading in the glass tank seeming amplified in comparison to the reading of that in the screen enclosure.

Assuming the light source sits on top of the screen and glass and the detector sits at the same distance from the top, this is backwards. Screen passes about 70% of the UVB. Glass reflects/blocks 99%+ of the UVB light.
 

Lennoncham

Chameleon Enthusiast
No sorry I can not but it's a simple test as long as you have the 4 main ingredients. Best of luck and please do share your results if so inclined to.

This ^^^ . this is how myths get made. You have given no proof of anything you said. You have had people asking for proof and giving detailed explanations as to why your wrong but you keep saying your right. You tell other people to run the tests but you haven’t done them yourself.
 

JackRipper

Avid Member
It comes down to basic trigonometry and thermodynamics. The light waves are moving in seemingly 3 directions. Forward and side to side. You can measure the side to side motion and this is its frequency. Every sound and light wave has its own frequency. These frequencies can be pulsed together to create a new wave with either destructive or constructive energy. This is why putting 4 bulbs with their own reflecters is better than putting 4nin a single reflector. Some of the light waves are being canceled out basically. This has been proven. We use this in phased array ultrasonics. In a typical A-Scan setup you have only 1 angle with 1 element that sends and receives ultrasonic signals usually in the 2.5-5mghz. But with passed array were putting 16-32 elements together in one wedge and creating 34 different angles. The elements all have the same frequency but are pulsed in a way to create the constructive wave needed. I digress. In sound there's a thing called attenuation. The further it travels the weaker it gets. Which is why Mercury burns and Mars is too cold but the Earth is just fine as far as temps from that light. Out own atmosphere blocks uvc rays because it's frequency can't penetrate the atoms in our atmosphere.

Basically light and sound work the same way. They can reflect or refract. If they reflect the angle the wave hit is the same angle it bounces off and reflects enter the trigonometry. So if a UVB light is being used with a reflector most of the UVB frequency of light is being pointed down. Yes some do hit the glass but if you know anything about angles and triangles than you know if you bounce wide you're exit point is also wide. Most of the already fainting energy is being directed right into the ground. Hell a 12% Arcadia is virtually useless after 36"
Very good but sound does not carry uv rays and uv rays are not permitted the same passage as the photons hence visible light passes thru glass while uv doesnt for the most part it bounces off. Light as we know it is broken up into several different waves like uva-b-c-xray-etc.. created by a energy source or ignition source (explosion). Altho all of these waves behave in a simular way including sound waves they are on a much smaller scale very different. I would say that most sound waves recognized by our ear behave most similarly to uva rays but still very different.
 

CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I believe @JackRipper is invisioning a microwave oven. Microwaves are different but work within the same laws. Same with xray. You can't amplify anything without changing the energy. Simply reflecting your UVB bulb for instance isn't making the energy from the bulb any better you're just reflecting the rays at the closest spot to the reflector (top of bulb) down into the enclosure where you want it. The result is better readings than without one. You didn't add any extra power and you didn't change the source of the power. You just directed the energy that would've been wasted.
 

CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Very good but sound does not carry uv rays and uv rays are not permitted the same passage as the photons hence visible light passes thru glass while uv doesnt for the most part it bounces off. Light as we know it is broken up into several different waves like uva-b-c-xray-etc.. created by a energy source or ignition source (explosion). Altho all of these waves behave in a simular way including sound waves they are on a much smaller scale very different. I would say that most sound waves recognized by our ear behave most similarly to uva rays but still very different.
I never said they carry UVB. I was comparing the similarities of sound and light.
 

JackRipper

Avid Member
This ^^^ . this is how myths get made. You have given no proof of anything you said. You have had people asking for proof and giving detailed explanations as to why your wrong but you keep saying your right. You tell other people to run the tests but you haven’t done them yourself.

Blasphemy! your accusations are wildly rude. It's ok to be wrong or ignorant but not if you are unwilling to learn. I have ran the tests you have not so unless you wish to prove me wrong by doing some actual work i ask that you refrain from messaging and or quoting me with your assumptions and slander. Thanks
 

JackRipper

Avid Member
I believe @JackRipper is invisioning a microwave oven. Microwaves are different but work within the same laws. Same with xray. You can't amplify anything without changing the energy. Simply reflecting your UVB bulb for instance isn't making the energy from the bulb any better you're just reflecting the rays at the closest spot to the reflector (top of bulb) down into the enclosure where you want it. The result is better readings than without one. You didn't add any extra power and you didn't change the source of the power. You just directed the energy that would've been wasted.
Exactly.. as does the glass lmao.. it redirects not as efficiently as a polished reflective surface but it does reflect UV rays.
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
Blasphemy! your accusations are wildly rude. It's ok to be wrong or ignorant but not if you are unwilling to learn. I have ran the tests you have not so unless you wish to prove me wrong by doing some actual work i ask that you refrain from messaging and or quoting me with your assumptions and slander. Thanks
Then why not share your results to educate us? Because I found multiple sources that said otherwise from your original commentary.
 

JackRipper

Avid Member
Assuming the light source sits on top of the screen and glass and the detector sits at the same distance from the top, this is backwards. Screen passes about 70% of the UVB. Glass reflects/blocks 99%+ of the UVB light.
Both enclosures had screen tops. Very simular screen in regards to Gage and weave lol .
 
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