URI Medication?

[ItsMike64]

Hi all! I believe my male panther of 11 months may have a very mild URI. I have heard him cough once or twice over the past two weeks, and when he is out on my hand with me, I'll hear a very quiet pop sound once every 30 or so seconds. I'm not really sure how it could have been caused, because my enclosures are decked out, have computer fans circulating, temp and humidity monitors, never mists or is humid with lights on, etc... But I don't really know what to do. The nearest vet is just down the road, but they aren't scheduling appointments for like two months. I emailed them asking if they can squeeze me in, but I doubt they'll be able to. The next closest chameleon approved vet is like 4 hours away, and I don't have the means to drive that far right now. Is there somewhere that I can get him some medication online and dose him properly? Suggestions are welcome. I have a video of him making the cough noise. He does not gape, wheeze, gasp for air, have excess saliva, or any other symptoms besides the "cough" and the popping.

 

[ItsMike64]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Balerion is an 11 month old panther chameleon I got at the age of 3 months from FramsChams
• Handling - Once a week
• Feeding - Crickets, dubias, BSFL, sometime hornworms. All gutloaded with mustard greens, dandelion greens, kale greens, mango, bok choy, and some flax seed.
• Supplements - Repticalcium without D3 every feeding + Bee Pollen. 2x a month I give Repashy LoD
• Watering - I never see him drink. I mist once before lights on and once before lights go off. Once again before fogging at about 11PM. Fogging from 11PM-6AM. He never uses a dripper.
• Fecal Description - Regular poop. The other day he pooped a really weird looking one (see pics) but I think it was because the day before I gave him a huge hornworm? Never been tested for parasites, though I am planning on it asap.
• History - Nothing important.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 2x2x4 Reptibreeze with 3 sides covered with shower curtain liner. On a reptibreeze stand.
• Lighting - Sansi light for plants, T5HO 6% Linear UVB, and a 60w BR30 incandescant bulb for basking. All on from 8AM-8PM except basking light which turns off at 4:30PM
• Temperature - Ambient 74, basking 85, nighttime 67-70
• Humidity - 35% during the day (really hard to keep it up in a basement in upstate NY in the winter) and about 60-90% at night.
• Plants - All live. He has some ferns, croton, monstera, pothos, schefflera. He does not eat plants.
• Placement - Quiet basement spot away from people and lots of traffic.
• Location - Upstate New York

Current Problem - URI. He has also been pretty dull over the past few months, not very colorful. I've been told it's winter funk.

Link to video of him coughing

 

[MissSkittles]

I see nothing wrong in your husbandry. I think we sometimes forget that even with the very best of care, sometimes our chams can fall ill. The only recommendation I can make for husbandry is maybe decrease the amount of time you are fogging at night to just around 3 hours and have it stop around 4 or 5.
That is insane that your vet is scheduling only for two months away! I can understand for routine appointments, but how can they not have appointments for unexpected sickness or emergencies?! Are there any other vets near you that see exotics? They may not be as experienced with chameleons as the other, but should be able to help some. We do have the right to have our questions answered and refuse proposed treatments. I would try your regular vet again and maybe be overly dramatic that it’s an emergency.

 

[ItsMike64]

I see nothing wrong in your husbandry. I think we sometimes forget that even with the very best of care, sometimes our chams can fall ill. The only recommendation I can make for husbandry is maybe decrease the amount of time you are fogging at night to just around 3 hours and have it stop around 4 or 5.
That is insane that your vet is scheduling only for two months away! I can understand for routine appointments, but how can they not have appointments for unexpected sickness or emergencies?! Are there any other vets near you that see exotics? They may not be as experienced with chameleons as the other, but should be able to help some. We do have the right to have our questions answered and refuse proposed treatments. I would try your regular vet again and maybe be overly dramatic that it’s an emergency.

You have a good point. I was wondering if maybe my nighttime temperatures aren't low enough for the fogging, but it feels cold in the room at night, and hovers around 70, where I've heard that 68 is the magic number. Humidity has been hard to control, but I'm working on it!

I contacted the vet and talked to them, and they said the best they can do is have me call each morning at 8am to see if they have a cancellation so I guess I have that. I did also reach out to another exotic vet near me, but I fear they will give the same response. Is there any medication I can give him myself? I hate to see him suffer because the close vets suck and can't schedule soon. I'll do my best to dial up the drama though haha

Thanks for the advice so far

 

[MissSkittles]

I’m afraid there just isn’t any substitute for the antibiotic that your guy will need. Have you asked the vet about dropping him off and they can see/tend to him as they are able? Some vets will do that in a pinch.

 

[Beman]

I agree with @MissSkittles and I too do not see anything that stands out with husbandry. But if you suspect a URI then you want to get him in asap. They are easier to treat when they are in the beginning stages. Do get a fecal test done too. I do not like the amount of mucus in that fecal. Depending on where you buy and have bought your feeders from they can pick up parasites from them. Especially if your buying from a chain store.

 

[ItsMike64]

Just as a little update - I found a vet close by and brought him. He hadn't been improving or getting worse, so I wanted to get him checked. We got him on an anti inflammatory and antibiotic injections. I forgot to get a fecal done, and of course he pooped in his transport bin on the way there. I'll give them a call and see if I can bring it in. He did very well, behaved amazingly, and got lots of bugs with his meds when he got home. Hopefully he feels better soon!

 

[MissSkittles]

 

[ItsMike64]

Going to tag a couple people because I'd like to know various opinions. My vet prescribed ceftazidime for my little guy, which they showed my how to give an injection and told me to do it in his back legs, alternating each time as I do it. This is contrary to what I actually just heard in a video the other day from Snake Discovery, where Emily says that for lizards, you should always give injections in the front legs, so the body metabolizes it before it gets to the kidneys. I'll link the video here. She says it at 11:09. They prescribed me to give it to him once every 72 hours for 5 doses.

@MissSkittles @Beman @jannb

Thanks guys

 

[MissSkittles]

Thankfully, I haven’t had to give any of my chams injections, but I saw that SD video too and it is 100% correct for chameleons as far as I know. You would want to use and alternate between the front legs. @kinyonga @JacksJill also can verify.

 

[ItsMike64]

Thankfully, I haven’t had to give any of my chams injections, but I saw that SD video too and it is 100% correct for chameleons as far as I know. You would want to use and alternate between the front legs. @kinyonga @JacksJill also can verify.

Thanks so much! I hope the meds are correct and will help him. The vet seemed knowledgeable, but the techs I don't think knew too much about injecting reptiles or chameleons.

 

[kinyonga]

@ItsMike64 …you are absolutely right…it’s not recommended to give needles to chameleons below the waist so to speak. If chameleons are injected in the lower legs, the meds go right out to the kidneys and don’t do the chameleon any good. Upper arms is best IMHO and alternate the arms each time you give a shot.

This might help…


One more…

 

[ItsMike64]

@kinyonga @MissSkittles @JacksJill the vet prescribed Cefatzidime injections or his respiratory infection and meloxicam orally to help with any inflamation and to see if it would help with his gular edema. I was just told elsewhere that neither of these medications will help with his problems - is this accurate?

 

[MissSkittles]

Ceftazidime is an antibiotic - I assume a broad spectrum one, so it should help. I’m not so sure about meloxicam helping the edema.

 

[ItsMike64]

Ceftazidime is an antibiotic - I assume a broad spectrum one, so it should help. I’m not so sure about meloxicam helping the edema.

I think her [the vet's] idea was that if it isn't edema, then possibly the meloxicam would help reduce any swelling. She was also wanting to be extra proactive about preventing pneumonia or a worsening RI so she said it would/could help with any inflammation in his lungs as well. Regarding the Ceftazidime - I agree, I don't see why a broad spectrum antibiotic wouldn't be able to treat a mild RI, but then again, I'm not a vet lol

 

[JacksJill]

It is broad spectrum against mostly gram negative and some gram positive bacteria. Whether it will be effective or not depends on what is causing the infection. If you don't have a culture and sensitivity from a sample then you will just have to observe for signs of improvement or worsening of symptoms. Keep your vet informed of any changes and you may have to try another antibiotic if you don't see improvement. IMO big guns like Baytril or Enrofloxacin should be saved as a last resort or used in dire situations. I'm not a vet. I'm not your vet and I haven't seen your pet so it's just what I would do for mine.
Meloxicam is a good anti-inflammatory and is commonly used in chameleons. I'm for anything that reduces suffering. It could reduce some swelling and open up airways to drainage and healing potentially.

 

[ItsMike64]

It is broad spectrum against mostly gram negative and some gram positive bacteria. Whether it will be effective or not depends on what is causing the infection. If you don't have a culture and sensitivity from a sample then you will just have to observe for signs of improvement or worsening of symptoms. Keep your vet informed of any changes and you may have to try another antibiotic if you don't see improvement. IMO big guns like Baytril or Enrofloxacin should be saved as a last resort or used in dire situations. I'm not a vet. I'm not your vet and I haven't seen your pet so it's just what I would do for mine.
Meloxicam is a good anti-inflammatory and is commonly used in chameleons. I'm for anything that reduces suffering. It could reduce some swelling and open up airways to drainage and healing potentially.

Thank you for your helpful and thoughtful reply! This makes me feel better about my cham and his prescription. I'm glad he got the medication he is on now, and actually am seeing some brighter colors and he seems a bit more perky! I am hoping for continued improvement! Question for you (or anyone who can answer) I was told by the vet techs to inject the needle into the "meat of his leg" - So pretty much an intramuscular injection, but in other things I've seen on the internet I see that with ceftazidime you should do subcutaneous on the arm. His last dose I gave intramuscularly into his front arm, but I want to make sure I am doing it properly for the rest of his doses. Luckily years ago I went to pre vet med school, so I am familiar with administering injections, just not the medications.

 

[kinyonga]

I’ve always given the injections in the arm in chameleons. They lack the Loop of Henle and if you give it “below the waist” it doesn’t circulate through the whole system but just goes out the kidneys instead.

 

[ItsMike64]

Okay so it’s been months and my Cham has been through the ringer - I would like some opinions/thoughts:

At the beginning of February he was prescribed Ceftazidime injections which I followed, which did nothing. Following this, I requested my vet put through a baytril prescription. In the meantime I spoke to another keeper on a Facebook group and she suggested I put him on reptaid for 14 days before I try to use Baytril. I did this and, nothing changed. So I filled and administered the Baytril for the two weeks prescribed by the vet, and after about 3 weeks since finishing the Baytril prescription, I have still heard him “cough”. I would have thought that by now and through all these medications, that any infection or illness would be gone by now. The coughing doesn’t seem bothersome to me and he never is trying to get anything out.

I almost wonder if it’s a hissing/behavioral type thing? Like him being a pissy boy? Someone once mentioned that to me and I blew it off at first but now am not so sure.

Some have told me the next step is bloodwork, and while I would love to do more exploratory things to figure it out, he just seems to beat down and tired that I’m afraid more poking and prodding could cause more harm than good. I mean, for the last 2.5 months he’s been taken out of his enclosure nearly daily and administered some sort of medication.

I just want to make sure my little guy is alright. Any insight or advice is more than welcome

Thanks!

 

[ItsMike64]

Some pics of him along with a huge poop he took after not making a BM for over a week and a half (presumably due to Baytril backing him up?)